Skygod straight from AFF

[MooChooser 0]

Quote

Quote

Quality versus Quantity. Yes, you can crank out a shit load of jumps in a short period of time, but does that make you a great skydiver? I question that.

That quoted text did not come from me (or even from one of my posts!!) ... and I dont even believe it.

Would be rather nice if you had replied to the quoters post, dont yoou think?

I didnt realise that it would come up like that.
If someone were to open this thread and only read my post, then they might assume that those were your views. Your DZ.com reputation would be ruined!
I apologise.

[shropshire 0]

Cheers mate ... sorry for the rag.

Kindest Regards,

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[BillyVance 35]

Quote

Quote

he can't become a TM in one year.

At ASC in Cedartown, apparently you can...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[chachi 0]

Quote

I actually like him. He's a nice guy but I just think he's getting the cart before the horse. What makes me think it's quantity vs quality is the videos of his jumps and 800 jumps in a year.

AFF to D license in one year. Do you think he's ready to be an AFFI or TM? technically based on his jump #s and license # he qualifies to get the rating.

lol are you serious? i think he is probably about 5 times better than the average skydiver with that kind of currency and training. jealous much?

[Andy9o8 2]

I think many of you are being way too hard on Katee for posing her question. Her posts about skydiving are always well thought out. She simply had a personal gut feeling about something and, out of concern, invited other opinions. Suggestions that she's somehow clueless or has a jealous agenda are out of line. This isn't speaker's corner. Play the ball, not the player. We can disagree with someone's perspective on the sport we all love without being pricks.

[Rick 67]

Quote

I think many of you are being way too hard on Katee for posing her question. Her posts about skydiving are always well thought out. She simply had a personal gut feeling about something and, out of concern, invited other opinions. Suggestions that she's somehow clueless or has a jealous agenda are out of line. This isn't speaker's corner. Play the ball, not the player. We can disagree with someone's perspective on the sport we all love without being pricks.

I agree
I have heard many people in the past pose the same question. " Should there also be a time in sport requirement as well as jump numbers for ratings"(similar to tandem rating) I do not think she is out of line at all to put the question out there. just my 2 cents

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

AFF to D license in one year. Do you think he's ready to be an AFFI or TM? technically based on his jump #s and license # he qualifies to get the rating.

He cannot become AFFI just because he get a lot of jumps. He needs to pass the AFFI course, which include check dives. If he does - he is ready to be AFFI. If he doesn't - he is not.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Quote

AFF to D license in one year. Do you think he's ready to be an AFFI or TM? technically based on his jump #s and license # he qualifies to get the rating.

He cannot become AFFI just because he get a lot of jumps. He needs to pass the AFFI course, which include check dives. If he does - he is ready to be AFFI. If he doesn't - he is not.

You're missing the point, which is that "time in sport" is a form of qualification that has its own particular value that may transcend what can be revealed in a few check dives.

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

You're missing the point, which is that "time in sport" is a form of qualification that has its own particular value that may transcend what can be revealed in a few check dives.

"Time in sport" seems to be very vague criteria. How much "time in sport" has a person who did his first jump in 1990, got his license, and did 400 jumps till 2006? Is he more experienced than the guy who jumped one year, and did 800 jumps? And, if time in sport is really important for AFFI, why there are no such a requirement, like TMs have?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Quote

You're missing the point, which is that "time in sport" is a form of qualification that has its own particular value that may transcend what can be revealed in a few check dives.

"Time in sport" seems to be very vague criteria. How much "time in sport" has a person who did his first jump in 1990, got his license, and did 400 jumps till 2006? Is he more experienced than the guy who jumped one year, and did 800 jumps? And, if time in sport is really important for AFFI, why there are no such a requirement, like TMs have?

I'm sure there are people who'd argue that time in sport, perhaps together with a currency requirement, should be a requirement for AFFI rating, and some who'd argue it shouldn't. The fact that it currently isn't doesn't invalidate debating whether it should be.

[Scoop 0]

In my mind this expression 'time in sport' should relate to how experienced they are: ie jump numbers and level of competency. You only get good by doing something. Hanging around the DZ isn't worth a wank if your not jumping and putting stuff into practice as someone who does 1 jump a month for 20 years might do. I wouldn't let a mate who likes tinkering with engines at the weekend service my car, I'd send it to a professional who works with them day in day out.

Be interesting how he afforded 800 jumps in one year though!
That would be £16,000 GBP just on jump tickets!!

[LloydDobbler 2]

Quote

And, if time in sport is really important for AFFI, why there are no such a requirement, like TMs have?

I think you're again missing the point. When you get right down to it, that seems to be the underlying question behind her original post: should there perhaps be a "time in sport" requirement for more than just the tandem rating?

Quote

"Time in sport" seems to be very vague criteria. How much "time in sport" has a person who did his first jump in 1990, got his license, and did 400 jumps till 2006? Is he more experienced than the guy who jumped one year, and did 800 jumps?

I think in this case, it all depends. They could be on equal playing level. Skill-wise, the 800-jump person might be ahead...but there are undoubtedly some things the less-frequent, in-it-for-the-long-haul jumper has learned just from being there for that long. (I guess what I'm trying to say is, the question is a bit too vague).

I think what the discussion above is trying to get at is that jump numbers don't necessarily provide the only relevant experience metrics. Sure, they can be a good indicator...but I still think there's a lot to be learned from being there, seeing what others have gone through, soaking in the lessons that come with time. Vague? Yes. But nonetheless, it has an effect. (And really - aren't jump numbers a bit vague, when you get right down to it? If someone made 200 jumps, then started exclusively flying wingsuits for 800 jumps, I don't think I'd consider them a great all-around skydiver based on their 1000 jumps alone. We can come up with a million devil's advocate scenarios like that, arguing either side.)

And even if a person's been focusing on less-specialized stuff and knocking out 800 jumps in a year, I still don't think you can equate jump numbers alone with skill as a skydiver...or at least, equate it with the know-how to get oneself out of infrequent, tricky situations. I've seen it with my own eyes.

I guess my main thought is that there are lots of variables affecting how good a skydiver one becomes, ranging from jump numbers to amount of coaching received to wind tunnel time to years in the sport...perhaps we should consider more than one of them when judging the aptitude of a jumper. Jump numbers can tell you a lot...but I'm convinced the other stuff has a definite effect on one's aptitude, too.

Signatures are the new black.

[jjiimmyyt 0]

I kind of disagree.

Hanging around the DZ, chatting to instructors and more experienced people when I've not been able to jump has been very helpful. Of course putting it into practice is best, but there is a certain something you get from having knowledge passed onto you by people that have already been there that helps. I guess that is why there is the time in sport requirement, although banging out 800 in 1 year show amazing commitment I'm not sure that it is better than 800 over 2 years etc.

"This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave

[Scoop 0]

I'm dragging my feet so much with my jumping that whoring on websites like this, keeping my head buried in magazines and drooling over kit means I can talk a good story.... I just can't do it or know what it means practically.

I'm sure there is a happy medium as you say

[gearless_chris 1]

How about someone that got their instructor rating at the old jump requirement, and then did a couple hundred hop-n-pops after dropping S/L students? does that make them qualified even though they have little freefall time? Now he can get a tandem rating and do several hundred tandems to get the freefall time up? He could have the jumps and time in sport but not the actual flying experience.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[DougH 270]

Quote

How about someone that got their instructor rating at the old jump requirement, and then did a couple hundred hop-n-pops after dropping S/L students?

Don't you think that if some one has trained and safely dispatched hundreds of SL students they are doing something right?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

I'm sure there are people who'd argue that time in sport, perhaps together with a currency requirement, should be a requirement for AFFI rating

Time in the sport should have no more bearing than number of jumps. The bottom line as far as being a potential AFFI is concerned, is can the person teach and can they fly their body to the standards set by the governing body. I'd be willing to bet that the person behind this thread with his 800 jumps in one year can fly his body. But can he teach? and does it really matter since we don't even know if they dude is interested in becoming an AFFI.

Finally there is something to be said about the person who jumps a lot. I know I did a lot of jumps in the summer of 2005 (I was lucky enough to jump virtually everyday) and it's hard not to get better when you're doing it so often. It's just something that should happen when you're constantly jumping ... getting better that is.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

I'm sure there are people who'd argue that time in sport, perhaps together with a currency requirement, should be a requirement for AFFI rating, and some who'd argue it shouldn't. The fact that it currently isn't doesn't invalidate debating whether it should be.

Yes, people can argue on a lot of additional restrictions (just remembering the discussion during the Holiday boogie, when people arguing whether a 18 year old should be allowed to be AFFI). But the fact people argue about it still does not mean it is even an option.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

I think you're again missing the point. When you get right down to it, that seems to be the underlying question behind her original post: should there perhaps be a "time in sport" requirement for more than just the tandem rating?

Yes, and it seems like I answered this question: for me, "time in sport" alone, without considering other information, is the useless criteria. First, it is not clear how to measure time in sport - for example, I jumped rounds in 1996-1997, doing 20 static lines and 10 freefall jumps, got my license, and didn't jump before 2006, when I completed AFF and started jumping again. Technically I could say I have 11 years in sport, looking on it as "since the moment I did my first jump/got my first license". Or I could say I have three years as "the years I jumped". Or two years as "the years I made more than 5 jumps a year". Or even one year as "the years I jumped modern gear, and got experience applicable to modern parachuting". Include that there is a huge difference between telling the people you have 11 years in sport or one year in sport, and you'll see my problem with this definition.

Quote

I think what the discussion above is trying to get at is that jump numbers don't necessarily provide the only relevant experience metrics. Sure, they can be a good indicator...but I still think there's a lot to be learned from being there, seeing what others have gone through, soaking in the lessons that come with time. Vague? Yes. But nonetheless, it has an effect.

Which effect? What could you say about a person who claims to have 10 years in sport, and 600 jumps? Is he experienced enough to be AFFI? Could he safely jump 8-way? Is he even current? It is not possible to answer any of those questions without looking deeper into the logbook.

Another question is - what is needed from AFFI? Previous experience with students, and their mistakes, positive thinking, good communication, and able to maneur as required in freefall. This way someone with people management traning, who has 500 belly jumps, has been a coach for six month, and did 100 coach jumps, may end up being much better AFFI than someone with 1,000 frefly or wingsuit jumps, not to mentioning time in sport.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[bigway 4]

Quote

and does it really matter since we don't even know if they dude is interested in becoming an AFFI.

Ding ding ding.


Exactly, why people are arguing about him becoming an AFFI or TM i have no idea. Who ever said he was trying to be one?

original poster possed a question that is not possible.

Original poster also deserves all the backlash for calling this guy a skygod.
The guy has 800 jumps in a year, in my books this is a guy who has become a 100% committed skydiver who has every right to coach newbies and do video... Original poster has no business labelling him the aweful word 'skygod' cause of his amazing achievment of going this far in the sport in such a short amount of time.

Even if the guy has aspirations to become anAFFI or TM this thread is a put down towards him and not a good story as it should have been. He can not become an AFFI or TM yet and i am sure he is fully aware of that i am sure seeing it is law.


Originall poster dissed on a person by saying he has the attitude of a skygod but failed to mention that he has 800 jumps.


This guy deserves a congratulations for spending the lasty year getting this amount of jumps in dedicating his life to skydiving , his bank account to it and now he is giving back to the sport by coaching newbies entering the sport.


Congratulations mate, someone jealous of you has come on this site and insulted you and put your achievments down. People who do this sort of thing are jelous and as you can see the majority of replies on this site are saying good on you.

Keep doing what you are doing mate.
Good luck for the future.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

You are too funny!

_________________________________________

[bigway 4]

thats you reply from all these replies to the thread you opened to put down a guy who is way past your experience in a third of the time of yourself?

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[BillyVance 35]

Quote

thats you reply from all these replies to the thread you opened to put down a guy who is way past your experience in a third of the time of yourself?

I'm sure she just wanted to make sure the guy wasn't getting too sure of himself.

The worst kind of skydiver is one who won't listen to anybody, IMHO.

I mean, I think it's great he was able to make 800 in a year, but if he can't sitfly stably or shoot good video by now, he could use a coach for a few jumps and actually learn something.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[mnskydiver688 0]

I think it depends on the type of jumps he has done. Has he done 700+ RW jumps? 700+ Free-fly jumps? 400 hop & pops? Someone who is that dedicated and that can afford it, holy sh*t! I think it just depends on where the jumper decided to go with his skydiving after he got licensed. Would you feel comfortable getting RW coaching from a guy who only free-fly's? I can understand your intent of the post but possibly wording it better would not get you the backlash that seems to be happening. All of us needs to be reminded every once and a while that we don't know everything, but don't discount the fact that all of us have something to offer too.

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

[kelpdiver 2]

the main problem with the one year part is that his exposure to seasonal issues is pretty limited. LA has seen almost no rain in the last year, for example.

There's also the pattern of accidents tied to seasons in places where winter means less or no jumping.

So physical skills, you'd expect him to be outstanding. How well he could instruct/coach would be more of a question of how well he knows what he's doing. With that kind of currency, he could actually be a lousy instructor - does everything by instinct. Or he could he a great one.

But value judgements - I'd prefer someone with more time, and/or more understanding of those of us who tend to < 100/year. In two more years he might be a great one.