Skydivesg 7 #126 February 24, 2006 You old dog...........Are you going to be a POPS this year???????????? I'm not a POPS............That's for those old guys!! I had a "Nova" once........... The tires were bald The dirver's seat was all chewed up The windshield was so cracked you had to lean to the right see out The radio didn't work No A/C No power steering The oil leaked It only ran on 3 cylinders The clutch slipped The paint was faded It over heated every 20 minutes The pasenger window wouldn't roll up The back seat floor board was rusted through God I loved that car Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #127 February 24, 2006 QuoteYou old dog...........Are you going to be a POPS this year???????????? I'm not a POPS............That's for those old guys!! Not in time for the boogie. When's your birthday, I can't think of a more appropriate present to 'spring' on someone. Steve turns the week after I do - likely we'll 'spring' that surprise on each other. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #128 February 24, 2006 QuoteThere is only one thing you must do on each skydive in order to survive - "land the canopy safely". If you don't deploy a landable canopy, how are you going to"land the canopy safely"? I have seen it tried and it doesn't work for shit. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #129 February 25, 2006 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I know hot shots that are great jumpers that don't know what a Nova is. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now would that be "Nova" the canopy or "Nova" the cantainer system? Does it matter which? Besides they will claim that it does not matter and we are just old farts...While that is true for YOU, I'm only 33"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanglesOZQld 0 #130 February 25, 2006 Mmmmm - Pilots licence first then Divorced because of jumping, nearly 4,000 jumps doing a variety of things, busted enough for six months away from the sport, > 13 years in it, somewhere around 9-10 percent in the experience level whereby 100 percent would be Knowing all!!" There are always more things to learn and the sport itself is always changing in one way or another so noone should connsider themselves fully experienced. The learning curve never ends!!! BSBD!! -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #131 February 25, 2006 QuoteI'm only 33 Punk kid, I've got underwear older than that.SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bozo 0 #132 February 25, 2006 QuoteQuoteI'm only 33 Punk kid, I've got underwear older than that.Sparky Damn, Sparky ! I thought we were communicating with an adult all this time. 33 ? hahahahahaha Just kidding. bozo bozo Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanglesOZQld 0 #133 February 25, 2006 Experience is a skydiver who has been there and done that but still states that there is much more to be learned. The BEST skydivers on earth are those who still want to talk to first time jumpers with no ego, and the initial love they found of and from the sport is still very evident. Just my aussie <.02 cents worth ;) BSBD!! -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dumpster 0 #134 February 25, 2006 QuoteThere are always more things to learn and the sport itself is always changing in one way or another so noone should connsider themselves fully experienced. I couldn't agree more - That applies not only to skydiving, but pretty much everything in life. Easy Does It Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #135 February 25, 2006 QuoteIf you can walk away from the landing, I would say you landed safely. Now that is something experence has taught me. Sparky In my inexperience and short time in the sport, I think that statement is a load of shit. Walking away from an unsafe landing and a safe landing are completely different. Drawing from my extremely limited experience, I will give you an example. A jumper from the Singapore 4 way military team is training at Perris. He hook turns himself into the ground, yet gets up and brushes himself off. You say this is safe. Several days later the same jumper hook turns himself into the ground again, breaking his pelvis and some other stuff. Seems to me both landings were unsafe, one just had a different outcome. If you repeatedly land on your ass, the "chances" of hurting yourself are greater. Not the "odds" but the "chances". If a drunk driver speeds 100mph down the freeway yet doesn't hit anything on his ride home, was that a safe drive? If a house full of children has no smoke detectors yet no one in the house has ever died from smoke inhilation, is that still a safe environment? What if that same household has a pool with no fence around it. Even though there have been no drownings, is that safe? For the record, I ran all of the above scenarios by two of my friends, one of whom is a Captain for the City of Orange FD, the other with is a Paramedic for Long Beach FD. They both agreed those were "unsafe" regardless that no fatalities nor injuries occured. But I have an idea...the next time someone toggles in, or lands opposite of the pattern, or doesn't flare yet walks away, I'll intercept Dan BC before he makes it that the said jumper, and show him your statement first...you know, the QuoteIf you can walk away from the landing, I would say you landed safely. Now that is something experence has taught me. Sparky. We'll see if that influences his subsequent chat with the individual.Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #136 February 25, 2006 QuotePunk kid, I've got underwear older than that. Yeah, some folks have asked me to talk to you about that...Ya know you have to wash them too right?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #137 February 25, 2006 QuoteHydro, Rather than arguing here on-line, why don't you jump with the guy? I've jumped with guys that are SOS and JOS members and had a great time with them. A lot of them are very competent skydivers, and a lot of fun to be around. I jump mid-week, and I only know one so called older jumper. Dennis Saddler (or Sattler?) I believe he has 30 years in the sport and a son closer to my age than I am to him, although I don't really consider him old by any means. I've done 2 way and 3 way feeflys with him and lots of tracking jumps. He has a Matter wingsuit and I can't wait to flock with him someday. And by the way, do you REALLY think that Mike Owens wants to jump with me?Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #138 February 25, 2006 QuoteAnd by the way, do you REALLY think that Mike Owens wants to jump with me? Its Michael Owens, not Mike. And you knock the chip off and I would be glad to jump with you. I do not freefly so you will have to give me some pointers.SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #139 February 25, 2006 And by the way, do you REALLY think that Mike Owens wants to jump with me? _______________________________________ I think he would welcome anyone to jump with him as long as their safe and not a complete jerk, ie willing listen and willing to fly their slot and able to handle constructive criticism and able to show some respect for others. If someone don't fit the bill then NO I don't think he would want to jump with that type of person. ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #140 February 25, 2006 I could start this out with "In my experence your experence is a load of shit" but I won't.First you need to read and understand what I posted. He hook turns himself into the ground, yet gets up and brushes himself off. You say this is safe. Several days later the same jumper hook turns himself into the ground again, breaking his pelvis and some other stuff.Quote He walked away from the first one, he landed safely. I didn't say it was a safe landing. The second one he busted his ass, he did not land safely. See where this is going? As far as smoke detectors and unprotected pools, you are preaching to the choir. But I have an idea...the next time someone toggles in, or lands opposite of the pattern, or doesn't flare yet walks away, I'll intercept Dan BC before he makes it that the said jumper, and show him your statement first...you know, the Quote How did you get from “I am always amazed at how many experienced people with time in the sport land like absolute crap.” To toggling in and busting the pattern. In any case you run to Dan any time you get the urge. And say hi for me if you remember.And remember, chill, this is the internet. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #141 February 25, 2006 QuoteQuoteThere is only one thing you must do on each skydive in order to survive - "land the canopy safely". If you don't deploy a landable canopy, how are you going to"land the canopy safely"? I have seen it tried and it doesn't work for shit. Sparky If you don't put your rig on before you jump, how are you going to deploy your canopy? I have heard that a certain video man tried this. It didn't work for shit. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bozo 0 #142 February 25, 2006 Quote.But I have an idea...the next time someone toggles in, or lands opposite of the pattern, or doesn't flare yet walks away, I'll intercept Dan BC before he makes it that the said jumper, and show him your statement first...you know, the Quote Hmmm Hydroguy keeps dropping Dan BCs name. I wonder who he knows better.......Hydroguy.....or Mike...er Michael Owens. I wonder who Dan BC would jump with first...???? Food for thought. bozo bozo Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites HydroGuy 0 #143 February 26, 2006 I only say his name because he is the DZ manager, and the most experienced RW guy/organizer/coach I know. I have no doubt Owens knows him better. You guys are really reaching now... And nothing you nor he has said changes the fact that I see lots of what you consider experienced skydivers landing "poorly", or "inefficiently" or whatever more politically correct or coddling term you want to use. I guess it's only politically correct on this board to point out a lack of canopy skills as it relates to higher wingloadings... Maybe some of the older experienced skydivers - with the lack of canopy consideration - are directly responsible for the problems of canopy piloting that exists to this day. After all, it's not the young hot shit skydivers in charge of the USPA or the DZ's etc. It's not the young hot shit skydivers that made the sport what it is today...right? Or do the older experienced skydivers only take credit for the positives?Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #144 February 26, 2006 QuoteAnd nothing you nor he has said changes the fact that I see lots of what you consider experienced skydivers landing "poorly", or "inefficiently" or whatever more politically correct or coddling term you want to use. No one is arguing that. But you think they are *dangerous* and thats not the case. The young stud that thinks he knows what he is doing is MUCH more dangerous to others and himself....So I only care about dangerous skydivers. People who just ruin thier jumpsuits are not a big worry to me. My GF can't stand up and has 800 jumps. She is not dangerous and yes, I give her grief about it. But in the end she is not in danger or risking someone else. QuoteI guess it's only politically correct on this board to point out a lack of canopy skills as it relates to higher wingloadings... Not even close...Its just its more politically correct to be concerned about people who may break a femur or die instead of just rip up a jumpsuit. QuoteMaybe some of the older experienced skydivers - with the lack of canopy consideration - are directly responsible for the problems of canopy piloting that exists to this day. Yes. But the larger responsability lies with the hot shot that will not listen to experienced jumpers. There are experienced jumpers that don't care if the young hotshots get broken and that is a problem...But the bigger problem is the hot shot's listening to their egos over the old guys."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,080 #145 February 26, 2006 >I guess it's only politically correct on this board to point out a lack >of canopy skills as it relates to higher wingloadings... I point out both. But some people who cannot land a canopy well make a very good decision and upsize, so their lack of skills results in bruises and scrapes and not broken pelvises and femurs. That sort of decisionmaking is to be commended. They should then take the next step and get canopy training; some do, some don't. You can learn from your mistakes landing a Spectre 190. You can't learn from your mistakes landing a Velocity 95; you die before you learn anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #146 February 26, 2006 QuoteIf you don't put your rig on before you jump, how are you going to deploy your canopy? I have heard that a certain video man tried this. It didn't work for shit. You are right, that did happen. And to this day I can't understand how you can climb on a plane and forget to take your rig. And no one on the plane even noticed. Sad. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #147 February 26, 2006 QuoteNot even close...Its just its more politically correct to be concerned about people who may break a femur or die instead of just rip up a jumpsuit. I have got a lot more jumpsuits then I do femurs. And I have had to wash out grass stains more than once but have never had a femur go in. Can you say PLF? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #148 February 26, 2006 QuoteDo you want to know why I know so many so called "expert" or "experienced" skydivers land like crap? Because my CANOPY COACHES have just had me sit with them on the grass and watch people plow in over and over...and then I debrief them on what the person did wrong. I kind of like the philosophy that it is better to learn from others mistakes than from your own...at least it's less painful. I mean isn't that the whole idea behind coaching? Notice I said canopy COACHES...plural. I have several because different teachers have different EXPERIENCES to offer in their knowledge base. So... why are these canopy COACHES (plural) not offering their EXPERIENCES to the people who are landing like shit? Why don't they walk up to the guy/girl with the dirty jumpsuit and say "Hey, I saw your landing, instead of doing that next time try this"? $$$$$$$ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #149 February 26, 2006 Quotetheir EXPERIENCES to the people who are landing like shit? Why don't they walk up to the guy/girl with the dirty jumpsuit and say "Hey, I saw your landing, instead of doing that next time try this"? I do that all the time. Most people are receptive to some low key instruction, some don't listen. Maybe it's because I try to be quiet and discreet that you don't see me doing that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites HydroGuy 0 #150 February 26, 2006 QuoteSo... why are these canopy COACHES (plural) not offering their EXPERIENCES to the people who are landing like shit? Why don't they walk up to the guy/girl with the dirty jumpsuit and say "Hey, I saw your landing, instead of doing that next time try this"? I see Clint Clawson giving advice to newer jumpers and fun jumpers all the time. He is the most approachable guy around. I don't see him doing it as much to "experienced" jumpers. Maybe he is afraid of getting a response along the lines of:QuoteHave you ever been on a record attempt? Have you ever been in the air with 150+ canopies? The stress level for each jumper on a record attempt is pretty high, especially if it's the first time you've been on one. Add in 150+ other canopies in the air with you and that stress level goes up. Then add in the fact that the air in Perris can be less than ideal for canopy flight when it's hot, especially if you aren't used to it, and the fact that many of those women came from sea level dropzones and you might begin to understand why some people's landings were less than perfect. There was a lot more going on there than on your average freefly jump out of one Otter. 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HydroGuy 0 #143 February 26, 2006 I only say his name because he is the DZ manager, and the most experienced RW guy/organizer/coach I know. I have no doubt Owens knows him better. You guys are really reaching now... And nothing you nor he has said changes the fact that I see lots of what you consider experienced skydivers landing "poorly", or "inefficiently" or whatever more politically correct or coddling term you want to use. I guess it's only politically correct on this board to point out a lack of canopy skills as it relates to higher wingloadings... Maybe some of the older experienced skydivers - with the lack of canopy consideration - are directly responsible for the problems of canopy piloting that exists to this day. After all, it's not the young hot shit skydivers in charge of the USPA or the DZ's etc. It's not the young hot shit skydivers that made the sport what it is today...right? Or do the older experienced skydivers only take credit for the positives?Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #144 February 26, 2006 QuoteAnd nothing you nor he has said changes the fact that I see lots of what you consider experienced skydivers landing "poorly", or "inefficiently" or whatever more politically correct or coddling term you want to use. No one is arguing that. But you think they are *dangerous* and thats not the case. The young stud that thinks he knows what he is doing is MUCH more dangerous to others and himself....So I only care about dangerous skydivers. People who just ruin thier jumpsuits are not a big worry to me. My GF can't stand up and has 800 jumps. She is not dangerous and yes, I give her grief about it. But in the end she is not in danger or risking someone else. QuoteI guess it's only politically correct on this board to point out a lack of canopy skills as it relates to higher wingloadings... Not even close...Its just its more politically correct to be concerned about people who may break a femur or die instead of just rip up a jumpsuit. QuoteMaybe some of the older experienced skydivers - with the lack of canopy consideration - are directly responsible for the problems of canopy piloting that exists to this day. Yes. But the larger responsability lies with the hot shot that will not listen to experienced jumpers. There are experienced jumpers that don't care if the young hotshots get broken and that is a problem...But the bigger problem is the hot shot's listening to their egos over the old guys."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,080 #145 February 26, 2006 >I guess it's only politically correct on this board to point out a lack >of canopy skills as it relates to higher wingloadings... I point out both. But some people who cannot land a canopy well make a very good decision and upsize, so their lack of skills results in bruises and scrapes and not broken pelvises and femurs. That sort of decisionmaking is to be commended. They should then take the next step and get canopy training; some do, some don't. You can learn from your mistakes landing a Spectre 190. You can't learn from your mistakes landing a Velocity 95; you die before you learn anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #146 February 26, 2006 QuoteIf you don't put your rig on before you jump, how are you going to deploy your canopy? I have heard that a certain video man tried this. It didn't work for shit. You are right, that did happen. And to this day I can't understand how you can climb on a plane and forget to take your rig. And no one on the plane even noticed. Sad. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #147 February 26, 2006 QuoteNot even close...Its just its more politically correct to be concerned about people who may break a femur or die instead of just rip up a jumpsuit. I have got a lot more jumpsuits then I do femurs. And I have had to wash out grass stains more than once but have never had a femur go in. Can you say PLF? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #148 February 26, 2006 QuoteDo you want to know why I know so many so called "expert" or "experienced" skydivers land like crap? Because my CANOPY COACHES have just had me sit with them on the grass and watch people plow in over and over...and then I debrief them on what the person did wrong. I kind of like the philosophy that it is better to learn from others mistakes than from your own...at least it's less painful. I mean isn't that the whole idea behind coaching? Notice I said canopy COACHES...plural. I have several because different teachers have different EXPERIENCES to offer in their knowledge base. So... why are these canopy COACHES (plural) not offering their EXPERIENCES to the people who are landing like shit? Why don't they walk up to the guy/girl with the dirty jumpsuit and say "Hey, I saw your landing, instead of doing that next time try this"? $$$$$$$ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #149 February 26, 2006 Quotetheir EXPERIENCES to the people who are landing like shit? Why don't they walk up to the guy/girl with the dirty jumpsuit and say "Hey, I saw your landing, instead of doing that next time try this"? I do that all the time. Most people are receptive to some low key instruction, some don't listen. Maybe it's because I try to be quiet and discreet that you don't see me doing that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #150 February 26, 2006 QuoteSo... why are these canopy COACHES (plural) not offering their EXPERIENCES to the people who are landing like shit? Why don't they walk up to the guy/girl with the dirty jumpsuit and say "Hey, I saw your landing, instead of doing that next time try this"? I see Clint Clawson giving advice to newer jumpers and fun jumpers all the time. He is the most approachable guy around. I don't see him doing it as much to "experienced" jumpers. Maybe he is afraid of getting a response along the lines of:QuoteHave you ever been on a record attempt? Have you ever been in the air with 150+ canopies? The stress level for each jumper on a record attempt is pretty high, especially if it's the first time you've been on one. Add in 150+ other canopies in the air with you and that stress level goes up. Then add in the fact that the air in Perris can be less than ideal for canopy flight when it's hot, especially if you aren't used to it, and the fact that many of those women came from sea level dropzones and you might begin to understand why some people's landings were less than perfect. There was a lot more going on there than on your average freefly jump out of one Otter. Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
