KathleenL 0 #76 July 31, 2007 I will jump on a load with you Dave. As long as I know what you are going to do I feel safe. And I will stay above you so I can watch from the sky. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #77 July 31, 2007 at the farm I would be over the high performance area Cheers Dave http://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #78 July 31, 2007 Quote as a person who turns left 270s in patterns... This statement tells me you are the one we are all trying to avoid in the pattern landing areas. Quote at the farm I would be over the high performance area This statement tells me that you would be doing your 270s in the designated swoop area at the Farm.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #79 July 31, 2007 Quote Quote as a person who turns left 270s in patterns... This statement tells me you are the one we are all trying to avoid in the pattern landing areas. Quote at the farm I would be over the high performance area This statement tells me that you would be doing your 270s in the designated swoop area at the Farm. Ahhhh but you miss my point sir...a for me I usually set up over the pond at the ranch which is unnofficially become the swoop area as there are gates and voila the pond over there. secondly a left hand 270 set up takes a right hand pattern while you are flying your first leg you are looking at what is coming your way as far as people on final while you are on your base or crosswind leg you are looking at people setting up to turn onto crosswind so you can see what is happening in all directions before you make the decision to turn or not... my policy has become a lot more picky on when I turn or not... if everything is not perfect I tend to abort carve myself to normal crosswind and turn a 90 on top of that I give everyone on the load as much information as possible about what I am doing so they know what is coming... color of parachute where my pattern points are... where my turn will happen what it will look like if I abort my turn where I will go if there is congestion. So perhaps you judge too quick good sir, I had the joy of many great mentors and some great people to give me great tips on how to stay alive and how to help others stay alive. Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #80 July 31, 2007 QuoteLooks like if I want to make a fun jump I'll have to drive to Zhills. You are incapable of having fun without a 270?__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #81 July 31, 2007 All is well and good...up to the point where you don't see somebody, or somebody doesn't get your word, or a student gets there, or....ad infinitum. I don't think you could convince me that 270s in the pattern is EVER a good idea. That's my point. Maybe when you say "pattern" you are talking about swoop lanes and not a normal downwind, base, final pattern as what I'm talking about. Many swoopers seem to have the idea that everybody is out to get them with the new rules for landing patterns and designated landing areas. Not so. The idea is to get the racers out on the track and keep the Sunday drivers off of it. Or, from a different point of view...to reserve the streets for the Sunday drivers and reserve the race track for the speeders. I don't think anyone begrudges swoopers doing their thing. It's just a simple matter of different landing techniques not working well all mixed up together.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyshrek 0 #82 July 31, 2007 Its a 2 way street. I was just up at a boogie in Nebraska they had different landing areas for swoopers...Believe it or not, the swoopers had to land just a tad further away than the straight in approaches. It worked like this. If you were doing one approach you couldn't go in the airspace of the others. The first offence you got a warning. The 2nd you were told to leave the dZ. The whole week-end not one incident. Everyone stuck to the PLAN! Banning swooping is not the answer. Just altering the approacheshttp://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #83 July 31, 2007 QuoteIts a 2 way street. I was just up at a boogie in Nebraska they had different landing areas for swoopers...Believe it or not, the swoopers had to land just a tad further away than the straight in approaches. It worked like this. If you were doing one approach you couldn't go in the airspace of the others. The first offence you got a warning. The 2nd you were told to leave the dZ. The whole week-end not one incident. Everyone stuck to the PLAN! Banning swooping is not the answer. Just altering the approaches 1 - Nice solution 2 - I have yet to see anyone recommend actually banning swooping. Yet this comment keeps coming out. I do expect to see a DZ or two do just that if people keep overstating it. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #84 July 31, 2007 as of now unless I cant get there I am swooping the lane/pond which is away from the hanger and kinda been set to be a high speed approach area as a handshake deal with everyone... secondly if I am not doing that I drive in Jersey my swivel head is pretty good (that was a joke I know I am human) I feel you, time or space is a good thing I never once said that it wasnt... often times one will catch me either being one of first swoopers to land if doing four way video or belly flying second swooping pond third landing on the far edge of dropzone where people dont usually land best situation puts me by pond second best situation is me landing first or second from plane (this btw has lead to me doing a lot more belly flying with my friends) third best situation working coach jump and landing after everyone else; fourth best situation is me taking a standard pattern and carving a light 90 degree turn to final; that is generally how I am trying to roll these days last situation is hop and pops which I really prefer for really just working on things so lastly no I dont think I am the someone you have to watch out for...that being said at one point I most certainly was and had someone talk to me about changing methods to make everyone safer Dave http://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixoligist 0 #85 July 31, 2007 Sky Dive Deland bans Ray Dutch from stirring the pot. Ray is no longer permitted to twist words more than 180 degrees from the original intended heading. Ray may only twist words in the designated area (the bar). Things will work out just fine...everyone will have fun and we will all work together to avoid incidents. .................................. Better you than me .................................. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #86 July 31, 2007 Quote Quote Looks like if I want to make a fun jump I'll have to drive to Zhills. You are incapable of having fun without a 270? Sometimes it's a 450.Some people in this sport have chosen high performance canopy flight as their passion. Your question is akin to asking a freeflyer if they are incapable of having fun without freeflying. It's what they do, not just a bonus to their skydive.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #87 July 31, 2007 QuoteQuoteIts a 2 way street. I was just up at a boogie in Nebraska they had different landing areas for swoopers...Believe it or not, the swoopers had to land just a tad further away than the straight in approaches. It worked like this. If you were doing one approach you couldn't go in the airspace of the others. The first offence you got a warning. The 2nd you were told to leave the dZ. The whole week-end not one incident. Everyone stuck to the PLAN! Banning swooping is not the answer. Just altering the approaches 1 - Nice solution 2 - I have yet to see anyone recommend actually banning swooping. Yet this comment keeps coming out. I do expect to see a DZ or two do just that if people keep overstating it. According to the OP DeLand has.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #88 July 31, 2007 QuoteQuoteLooks like if I want to make a fun jump I'll have to drive to Zhills. You are incapable of having fun without a 270? are you incapable of having fun with out belly flying? I agree with JP on this one..canopy piloting is my discipline of choice... Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #89 July 31, 2007 Quote canopy piloting is my discipline of choice... Freefall is cool ... but I have way more fun under canopy. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #90 July 31, 2007 QuoteAccording to the OP DeLand has. I was under the impression based on later notes that it was really just for those that want to land "in front". But you can knock 'em out if you landed away from the primary traffic. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. In that case, it's Bob's place, he can do what he thinks best. Can someone confirm this or not? Does Deland, after this new rule, at least have a separate location for speed induced (over 180) approaches away from the main area? Because these always come across about people bickering over who has to walk. IMO - If swooping can be done away from traffic, then restricting the approach turn for swoopers is akin to asking a RWer to only fly boxman. It's goofy. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixoligist 0 #91 July 31, 2007 QuoteAccording to the OP DeLand has. Incorrect........... Hence my post on stirring the pot. "Turns greater than 180 degree can be made in the pre-designated swooping area only" The only grey area is where this will be................................... Better you than me .................................. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #92 July 31, 2007 Not once have I said anything about being upset if I have to walk furthur. That argument and infact the entire thread to that effect has been stated by non high performance canopy pilots. Most HP canopy pilots don't much care if they walk IMO, they do care about safeguarding their sport.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #93 July 31, 2007 QuoteQuoteAccording to the OP DeLand has. Incorrect........... Hence my post on stirring the pot. "Turns greater than 180 degree can be made in the pre-designated swooping area only" The only grey area is where this will be. Since it's unknown, turns over 270 are out of the question right now, right?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #94 July 31, 2007 >Since it's unknown, turns over 270 are out of the question right now, right? "Turns greater than 180 degree can be made in the pre-designated swooping area only" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #95 July 31, 2007 Quote are you incapable of having fun with out belly flying? Nope I enjoy many aspects of each skydive. I hope I never find myself only able to enjoy the last 4 or 5 seconds of each jump. I understand your point, but not why your entire ability to enjoy the sport is entirely focused on that one teeny interval of time.__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #96 July 31, 2007 who said canopy piloting has anything to do with just 6 seconds of time canopy piloting can take 20 minutes if I choose... I tend to do a lot of high pulls when it is allright to do I tend to do hop and pops I do focus on canopy a lot even though I enjoy freeflying and belly flying as well canopy piloting is my discipline Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #97 July 31, 2007 >Your question is akin to asking a freeflyer if they are incapable of having >fun without freeflying. It's what they do, not just a bonus to their skydive. Right. I like wingsuiting. But Perris requires wingsuiters to get out last, stay east of jump run, and not return to it until under canopy below about 2000 feet. Now, I could get on DZ.com and post 38 angry messages about how "PERRIS HAS BANNED WINGSUITING!" or I could follow their procedures - even if it means I can't swoop the tandems or fly over the train museum. Remaining away from the jump run is a way to improve safety for everyone, even though I have in the past safely flown by other canopies (and thus demonstrated that ability.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #98 July 31, 2007 Who's angry? And Perris hasn't banned wingsuits, they have created a plan for their safe use. Deland (as far as we know in this thread) and other DZ's haven't.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #99 July 31, 2007 Quote hope I never find myself only able to enjoy the last 4 or 5 seconds of each jump. Like Dave had mentioned canopy piloting is more than just swooping. Pulling high, enjoying the view, flying relative to others, bumping end cells, walking on their top skins. It's more than just swooping. But if you want to know why I swoop (I can't speak for others .... just me). It's simple ... I do it for the ground rush. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hjumper33 0 #100 August 1, 2007 Man this turned into a crazy thread since I last looked at it. Some people seem to have gotten my confusion with 180s as opposed to 270s. A 270 and a 90 fly basically the same pattern until the very end. A 180 has to set up a different approach that could throw off students who are above and cause them to make a drastic turn at the end, or land crosswind, or even downwind. Some people cannot understand the difference between a left hand 90 and a right 270, there are tons of diagrams all over this site. Just like your whuffo friends who cant understand why you skydive and you tell them, youll never know until you try, I think the same goes for swooping (Im not telling people to try) but if you dont get it, you dont get it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
