Eyes, Altis, and Audibles

[denete 3]

Okay, so here's the story.

Last weekend I did my 11th and 12th jumps (I've had 7 AFF jumps, 2 solo jumps, and 1 coach jump prior to 11 and 12).

I got a new (used) altimeter recently. It is a Glow-face Altimaster Galaxy. I asked Mike Gruwell at the Chuting Star Rigging Loft to run it through his pressure chamber to make sure it was reliable. He said that it stuck briefly on the way up, but was good on the way down. From what I understand, this is common for some of these altimeters.

* By the way, I knew that Mike had the pressure chamber thanks to taking the "Virtual Tour" of the facilities. Check it out at the Skydive the Farm Site.

Back to the story. Although I knew that the altimeter was probably fine, I was jumping on one of the clearest days that I can remember ever jumping. During free-fall, I could see more detail on the ground than usual. I only had a few things that I wanted to work on during free-fall and I completed them easily. So I check the altimeter again, and it says that I'm only at 8,000.

Somewhere in the back of my mind there was a doubt about this. I had become accustomed to finishing my tasks and being around 6,000-7,000. I watched the horizon move slowly and looked for trees. I couldn't see the detail of individual trees yet, so I knew I was still at a somewhat safe altitude (based on my eyes). The altimeter continued to move down slowly as I checked it.

Finally my audible gave it's 6,500 indication and I confirmed this altitude with my altimeter. Whew, three sources agreed on the altitude (eyes, audible, and alti.). I'll take that any day.

End of story.

So here I am two days later. I go to sleep at night and what kind of dream do I have? You guessed it, my first bounce dream. Same scenario, except when I look to check altitude I'm below 1,800. By the time I try to deploy I'm already on the ground. No bounce though, just laying there like I'm in bed. I get up and walk away. Of course this leads to a bizarre dream about some medieval castle and a dinner party.

- David

[steveorino 7]

I was jumping my new VISO last Saturday. I had made a demo the night before w/o incident. I was messing with it and I guess I put it on speed instead of altitude. I was on a 10K tandem and once I threw the drogue I looked at the altimeter. It said 120 ??? I checked my handles and looked again. Still 120, but then I realized it said 120 MPH! I kept a close watch on the ground and pulled at what i thought was the correct altitude. My protrack (which I keep in my pocket during hot days w/o a helmet) said I pitched right on time.

steveOrino

[skyjumpsteve 0]

One one of my first jumps off student status I had an altimeter that malfunctioned. The face unattached and shifted couter-clockwise a little bit. When the alti was saying 6,000 I was really at 2,000! This was before audibles were very popular and Cypres was just coming on the market (very early 90's). My eyes told me I was lower so I pullled. When I got down I realized what happened to the friggin' altimeter. Moral of the story for me was to never trust the altimeter 100%....when you think you are low you probably are! I also became one of the first people in New England to buy a Cypres as I was very spooked by this incident because it was one of my first jumps without a student FXC automatic opener.

[peggs82 0]

Just a few days ago I watched my Neptune go up in freefall...Guess I should wear more weight! I even paused momentarily to make sure it wasn't burbled (it wasn't).

On top of that problem, it has had numerous shutdown issues in freefall...I sent it back just the other day Sad when I trust my audible more than that POS...

[Dazzle 0]

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I was jumping my new VISO last Saturday. I had made a demo the night before w/o incident. I was messing with it and I guess I put it on speed instead of altitude. I was on a 10K tandem and once I threw the drogue I looked at the altimeter. It said 120 ??? I checked my handles and looked again. Still 120, but then I realized it said 120 MPH!

Is this a case for having devices that are nice and simple and do 1 job?

[dgw 8]

On my AFF level three, which I passed, my main instructor pulled for me, inexplicably. It transpired his alti had failed. Initially (in the air and on the ground), I was displeased. I thought I MUST have funked up. When he told me why, after letting me sweat for nearly an hour, I was less displeased. From my perspective at the time, there was no problem - I was MILES up!

[Cashmanimal 0]

I was filming an AFF Cat A when the wristband on my altitrack broke rendering it useless (This was on the way up). It was at this moment that I also realized I had not put my Optima back in my helmet after a friend had borrowed it.

I chose to still make the jump because I had the two instructors, the student, as well as one person lurking the dive just for fun. It was interesting to see my altitude perception (I listened to the student's debrief to see how close I was when he performed certain tasks... I was pretty close, <500 feet).

There are few other crcumstances right now where I would do video work without any means of personal altitude notification. I was rather comfortable with this one because the student also had a belly-mount altimeter. (I let them all know before, I established with the person who lurked that if we passed 4000 to wave me off if I wasn't already gone). I have since done 5-6 altimeter-less jumps to help me refine certain skills. I think it is something every experienced skydiver needs to do a few times.

It's all fun and until someone loses an eye... then it's just a game to find the eye

[GaryRay 0]

my alti decided it was a good idea to turn off in the plane on the ride up, turned it back on but it was a good 4-800' off at any given time when compared to other alti's, so i decided i would go by site, i pulled at what i would think is 3.5, the hardest part was the landing profile htough, i wouldnt call it a good pattern but i landed without a problem :).

JewBag.
www.jewbag.wordpress.com

[wonder2006 0]

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I was filming an AFF Cat A when the wristband on my altitrack broke rendering it useless (This was on the way up). It was at this moment that I also realized I had not put my Optima back in my helmet after a friend had borrowed it.

I chose to still make the jump because I had the two instructors, the student, as well as one person lurking the dive just for fun.

Um, is your profile correct? Don't mean to hijack the thread, but hoping I am missing something - your profile says you've been in the sport for 1 year, have 215 jumps, and you're out filming AFF (must be level 1 to 3 if there are 2 instructors???), no alti, and a lurker....There are just too many things wrong with that if that is the case...

Like I said, hopefully I'm missing something.

Back to topic

[Andy_Copland 0]

I left my audiable back in England by pure bloody mistake, this weekend a tandem instructors neptune died on the way up and he asked to borrow my alti.

I dont jump AAD (money issues rather than choice) and was freeflying, so told my partner to give me a nice clear wave off at 5.5. Very strange feeling, i still checked my alti twice even though it wasnt there. Saw the wave off, bellied out and tracked. Was open what looked like bang on cue. It was a nice learning experience, i really studied the ground.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[steveorino 7]

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I was jumping my new VISO last Saturday. I had made a demo the night before w/o incident. I was messing with it and I guess I put it on speed instead of altitude. I was on a 10K tandem and once I threw the drogue I looked at the altimeter. It said 120 ??? I checked my handles and looked again. Still 120, but then I realized it said 120 MPH!

Is this a case for having devices that are nice and simple and do 1 job?

You can make that point. IMHO, a better point would be to don't jump a device until you know how it works. And if you have the experience -- trust your eyes & instincts over a piece of machinery.

My "old man" vision is to where I can't read a regular altimeter very well, especially at night. Digital altis are MUCH easier to read. My digitude got too wet on a jump in the rain (another story) and I thought the VISO would be easy to read and affordable. It is both.

steveOrino

[denete 3]

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My "old man" vision is to where I can't read a regular altimeter very well, especially at night. Digital altis are MUCH easier to read. My digitude got too wet on a jump in the rain (another story) and I thought the VISO would be easy to read and affordable. It is both.

Once the eyes start to go, the next step is the "Flava Flav" altimeter (or just an Altimaster II).

(edited for humor)

[ladyhawke 0]

My coach made me practice in freefall look at the ground, look at my altimeter in order to not only know where I am in relation to the dropzone but to also practice altitude awareness in relation to the ground. I still practice this when I jump solo because it's a good habit to start as a newby.

I rely on my Neptune and audible to work properly but I know I need to rely on my eyes as well.

"It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities." - A. Dumbledore

[nopurpose 0]

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I was jumping my new VISO last Saturday. I had made a demo the night before w/o incident. I was messing with it and I guess I put it on speed instead of altitude. I was on a 10K tandem and once I threw the drogue I looked at the altimeter. It said 120 ??? I checked my handles and looked again. Still 120, but then I realized it said 120 MPH!

Is this a case for having devices that are nice and simple and do 1 job?

I did the same thing with my VISO on my first solo after AFF. I left the plane, and the numbers went up. Took me a second or two to figure that one out. I ended up pulling at about 7500 feet. I admit it was entirely my fault, but in speed mode, the VISO actually reads altitude on the way up. Is this common with digitals?

[DanG 1]

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I chose to still make the jump because I had the two instructors, the student, as well as one person lurking the dive just for fun. It was interesting to see my altitude perception (I listened to the student's debrief to see how close I was when he performed certain tasks... I was pretty close, <500 feet).

I made about 50 or so altimeter-less jumps a few years back while doing tandem videos. I figured I had the tandem master right there as a pretty good altimeter. All was well until a jump when I flipped onto my belly after filming the opening to realize I was about to enter a cloud. I now had no idea how high I was, and no way of finding out. I was pretty sure the cloud base was above 2 grand, but what to do? I waited until I exited the cloud and pitched. I was low, but not crazy low.

I stopped jumping without an altimeter after that.

And if you really only have 200 jumps you shouldn't be filming Cat A's with lurkers, altimeter or not. Just my two cents.

- Dan G

[AFFI 0]

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I had the two instructors, the student, as well as one person lurking the dive just for fun.

A beginner jumper flying camera (only 215 jumps and only a year in the sport) as well as a lurker on an AFF Cat A dive?

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[peregrinerose 0]

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A beginner jumper flying camera (only 215 jumps and only a year in the sport) as well as a lurker on an AFF Cat A dive?

What could possibly go wrong?

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Cashmanimal 0]

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I chose to still make the jump because I had the two instructors, the student, as well as one person lurking the dive just for fun. It was interesting to see my altitude perception (I listened to the student's debrief to see how close I was when he performed certain tasks... I was pretty close, <500 feet).

I made about 50 or so altimeter-less jumps a few years back while doing tandem videos. I figured I had the tandem master right there as a pretty good altimeter. All was well until a jump when I flipped onto my belly after filming the opening to realize I was about to enter a cloud. I now had no idea how high I was, and no way of finding out. I was pretty sure the cloud base was above 2 grand, but what to do? I waited until I exited the cloud and pitched. I was low, but not crazy low.

I stopped jumping without an altimeter after that.

And if you really only have 200 jumps you shouldn't be filming Cat A's with lurkers, altimeter or not. Just my two cents.

- Dan G

Clouds turn the entire process into something completely different... that IS terrifying!

As for my profile and what it reflects as well as our decisions, I was entering this thread to give my input on a subject I have had experience with. I feel that given the circumstance I made a much safer decision than many make everyday on their sport jumps. A cameraman filming tandems with no altimeter? Yes, the TM was there, but how many what if's can we pull from that?

I had three people on the jump who I jump with on a VERY regular basis and trust all of them, know their skill level and had faith in their judgement. IN addition, the belly-mount altimeter is a very handy tool on the student, being that the student is the one I am focusing on therefore presenting myself with many opportunities to check the altitude if I felt we were bringing it in a bit low.

The lurker on our jump was a very experience AFFI who wanted to fly second outside video. He filmed the jump from a reasonable distance behind the student.

And lastly, if I have jumped with and been cleared by those instructors I jump with to do video for them, I don't see what the heavy concern on everybody's part is past my own personal situation. I am not coming to your DZ with my 220 jumps and telling you I want to do your AFF video or your tandem video. I am smarter than that and have more respect for the sport than that. Instead, I jump with those who taught me, coached me, have monitored my progress and now specifically request my video work, despite the presence of multiple camera flyers with double or more my jump number. We are all comfortable with eachother. I fly within what I as well as many other much more experienced people consider to be my limits.


There is no substitute for experience. That's the bottom line. I am not going to make excuses or try to refute that. Nothing to date has taught me that better than the week I spent doing the video for Jay Stoke's AFFI rating course.

Edited to add: I appreciate everybody's concern for my safety and the safety of those around me. I don't want to sound like I am pushing everybody back who expresses concern. That's what keeps the sport safe.

It's all fun and until someone loses an eye... then it's just a game to find the eye

[Kiki32 1]

HOLY UNDERAPPRECIATED FLAVA FLAV PICS, BATMAN!!

I lol'd at work and everyone looked at me and I said "sigh... you wouldnt understand"

Poetry don't work on whores.

[Cashmanimal 0]

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HOLY UNDERAPPRECIATED FLAVA FLAV PICS, BATMAN!!

I lol'd at work and everyone looked at me and I said "sigh... you wouldnt understand"

Haha! I think the shotty photoshop job is the best part. I honestly don't think it would be funny if it were done well!

It's all fun and until someone loses an eye... then it's just a game to find the eye

[Kiki32 1]

Dont be silly, its flava flav with a giant altimeter! *ROFL*

Poetry don't work on whores.

[AFFI 0]

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A cameraman filming tandems with no altimeter? Yes, the TM was there, but how many what if's can we pull from that?

That is a skydiver with 1600 jumps and over a decade in the sport.
What kind of response did you expect by telling this community that you are filming student jumps with 200 jumps and (-)12 months in the sport when you know that may be considered (in general) poor judgment?
There is no need to defend yourself, many of us understand how things work and regardless of the particulars in your (outstanding) abilities there are many of us that believe that beginner skydivers (which you are) have no place in the air on student jumps. Period.
When I was still a novice, (say in my third year) I would go on any jump the DZ would let me on, so your enthusiasm is fully understood. Just be careful up there, and if you don’t want to get singled out then be cautious what information you divulge.
After you get your rating and see some shit go wrong (experience), then you will have a deeper appreciation why some of us have a tendency to air on the side of caution who we allow on student jumps. Sounds like you are headed down that road eh? Have fun...

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…