kallend 2,106 #51 November 4, 2007 QuoteQuoteDepends on whether you think each country's respective Para Assn, or that assn's magazine, should have a nationalistic agenda. By being the United States Parachute Association it already has an implied nationalistic agenda. If it didn't then anyone with USPA membership could medal at the USPA National Championships or represent the USPA at world level competitions, at any time. As it is, there are 'nationalistic' stipulations that must be fulfilled in order for that to happen. Perhaps you'd like the monthly magazine to be renamed "American Parachutist". Then maybe you'd have a point. As it is, you don't, and you just sound petulant.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #52 November 4, 2007 QuotePerhaps you'd like the monthly magazine to be renamed "American Parachutist". Then maybe you'd have a point. As it is, you don't, and you just sound petulant. What we are discussing is the photo of the French national 8-way team on the front cover of the calendar, which incidentally, is called the 'United States Parachutist Association 2008 Calendar'. Let's not be making the personal attacks eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #53 November 4, 2007 QuoteQuotePerhaps you'd like the monthly magazine to be renamed "American Parachutist". Then maybe you'd have a point. As it is, you don't, and you just sound petulant. What we are discussing is the photo of the French national 8-way team on the front cover of the calendar, which incidentally, is called the 'United States Parachutist Association 2008 Calendar'. Oh, I thought you wrote in the first post of this thread: "Ok, so can anyone tell me why in the latest issue of Parachutist..."... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #54 November 4, 2007 I'll refer you to a recent post I made in this thread: "Let me just be clear as the two issues seem to have become confused. 1 - In the official USPA report of the RW Nationals there is not one photo of the winners of all 4 categories in that report. I find that odd. 2 - On the cover of the USPA Calandar, there is a photo of a non-US team. I think that is wrong." Two issues, one relates to Parachutist's coverage of USPA Nationals, and one relates to the USPA Calendar. Sorry for the confusion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
relyon 0 #55 November 4, 2007 Quote"Ok, so can anyone tell me why in the latest issue of Parachutist..." The latest issue of Parachutist that I have (Sep '07) has a 15-way CRW formaton on the cover. I could be wrong, but I believe everyone on the load is American. Like many, I have problems with the content of USPA publications, but the nationality of those in the photos is of no concern at all. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #56 November 4, 2007 Go back to this post and follow the thread along from there. Note that it starts with a quote from Andy9o8: "Depends on whether you think each country's respective Para Assn, or that assn's magazine, should have a nationalistic agenda". Which led inexorably to my comment: 'Perhaps you'd like the monthly magazine to be renamed "American Parachutist".' ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #57 November 4, 2007 "Depends on whether you think each country's respective Para Assn, or that assn's magazine, should have a nationalistic agenda". But since you brought it up, the magazine cover names it as "Official publication of the United States Parachute Assocation". I don't care if Parachutist includes photos of other nations' skydivers, in fact, that's great, if there is space. (Bear in mind though, there is apparently no space to include a photo of the winners of 4 categories of the United States Parachute Association's National RW championships in the official write-up). My main gripe is the photo of the French national team on the US National Association's calendar cover. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #58 November 4, 2007 Quote"Depends on whether you think each country's respective Para Assn, or that assn's magazine, should have a nationalistic agenda". Let's start over: "Ok, so can anyone tell me why in the latest issue of Parachutist..." Perhaps you'd like the monthly magazine to be renamed "American Parachutist".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #59 November 4, 2007 I know it is hard for you to understand, but that post contains two issues. One relates to Parachutist's coverage of USPA Nationals, and one relates to the USPA Calendar. Sorry for the confusion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #60 November 4, 2007 QuoteI know it is hard for you to understand, but that post contains two issues. One relates to Parachutist's coverage of USPA Nationals, and one relates to the USPA Calendar. Sorry for the confusion. Based on the responses in this thread, I think that the lack of understanding is not mine.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #61 November 5, 2007 QuoteBy being the United States Parachute Association it already has an implied nationalistic agenda. Nonsense. It implies nothing more than a geographic territory and numeric majority of constituency. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #62 November 5, 2007 Quote It implies nothing more than a geographic territory and numeric majority of constituency The first part of which is one definition of 'a nation', surely? Nationalism = n. Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation. [American Heritage Dictionary] Nation = n. A relatively large group of people organized under a single, usually independent government; a country. The territory occupied by such a group of people [American Heritage Dictionary] So you don't think the United States Parachute Association is devoted to the interests of parachutists in the United States? What exactly is its purpose then? Unless you think the USPA represents the entire world of skydiving, and every nation which takes part? Why bother to call it the 'US'PA at all? Why not the World Parachute Association? (Or even Team America World Parachute Association, perhaps?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #63 November 5, 2007 You're either missing the point, or obsessed with your own one, or just plain getting bogged down by semantics. Back to the original topic. You think the USPA should be a partisan cheerleader for American teams, and seem to view it as a disloyalty when Parachutist magazine highlights a non-American team. Some people agree with you; some don't. That being said, I generally agree that the mag is usually bland and lacking any real gutsy edge. I'm done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #64 November 5, 2007 QuoteYou think the USPA should be a partisan cheerleader for American teams, and seem to view it as a disloyalty when Parachutist magazine highlights a non-American team. No, I don't. I said that a photo of an individual OR a US team (any discipline) would have been better on the cover of the USPA Calendar. (The Parachutist Magazine issue concerns photos accompanying USPA Nationals coverage). What you describe as being a 'partisan cheerleader' I would see as representing the body of membership in the United States. The USPA should represent US jumpers over and above those of other nations. That's one of its functions: "In its governing role, USPA is officially recognized by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) as the representative of skydivers in the United States" (USPA SIM) Putting the national team of France on the cover of the USPA calendar is not acting as the representative of skydivers in the United States. There is little enough exposure for US jumpers. Other nations have their own associations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,076 #65 November 5, 2007 >And why, on the COVER of the 2008 USPA calendar, there is a >PHOTO OF THE FRENCH 8-WAY TEAM? Cause they're USPA members just like Airspeed is. >are we mean to believe there are no decent photos of US teams >which could take that slot? I am sure there were. I am also sure there were great pictures of US skydivers who died around that same time. None of them were on the cover, either - but that doesn't mean that USPA hates the people who died. (And if you're going for what's important, surely a skydiver dying is more important to their fellow USPA members than who won which competition.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #66 November 5, 2007 Quote I am sure there were. I am also sure there were great pictures of US skydivers who died around that same time. None of them were on the cover, either - but that doesn't mean that USPA hates the people who died. I would think it far more appropriate to have on the cover of the USPA Calendar a photo of a US skydiver who died, than the French national team. Quote >And why, on the COVER of the 2008 USPA calendar, there is a >PHOTO OF THE FRENCH 8-WAY TEAM? Cause they're USPA members just like Airspeed is. They do not represent the USPA, they represent France! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #67 November 5, 2007 Quote Quote I am sure there were. I am also sure there were great pictures of US skydivers who died around that same time. None of them were on the cover, either - but that doesn't mean that USPA hates the people who died. I would think it far more appropriate to have on the cover of the USPA Calendar a photo of a US skydiver who died, than the French national team. Quote >And why, on the COVER of the 2008 USPA calendar, there is a >PHOTO OF THE FRENCH 8-WAY TEAM? Cause they're USPA members just like Airspeed is. They do not represent the USPA, they represent France! I thought USPA represented its members, not the other way around... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,076 #68 November 5, 2007 >I would think it far more appropriate to have on the cover of the USPA >Calendar a photo of a US skydiver who died, than the French >national team. I think it is entirely appropriate for USPA to put USPA members on the cover. Remember the 2006 World Team world record? That was on the cover even though it was in (gasp!) Thailand. Heck, percentage wise, there were more USPA members in the French team picture than on the 2006 world record picture. >They do not represent the USPA, they represent France! That's a bit silly. By your argument, Airspeed represents Eloy, not USPA. After all, they are not "USPA Airspeed" they are "Arizona Airspeed." USPA's members represent USPA, whether they represent a US drop zone or a foreign drop zone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #69 November 5, 2007 QuoteOk, so can anyone tell me why in the latest issue of Parachutist, which covers USPA Nationals, at which AIRSPEED MADE A CLEAN SWEEP of 4-way (highest average ever), 8-way, 10-way and 16-way, THERE IS NOT ONE PHOTO OF AIRSPEED? No, I can't. But maybe Parachutist's editors could. QuoteTo the disinterested observer, you have to admit, it looks a bit odd. I agree with this. QuoteAnd why, on the COVER of the 2008 USPA calendar, there is a PHOTO OF THE FRENCH 8-WAY TEAM? I agree with this...sorta. Is there a different calendar for every nation? If so, then yes. The US calendar should feature US skydiving. If not, then no. Featuring other nations keeps with the international flavor of the organization. QuoteI mean, come on, are we mean to believe there are no decent photos of US teams which could take that slot? I don't believe that and I don't think it was intended to make anyone else think that. QuoteI find it insulting, to be honest. If I were a member of the winning team, yes, I would be insulted that a picture of my team was not included. I'm sure my teammates would also be insulted. An aside: In light of the USPA's expansion into the world market, I would favor a long-overdue name change reflecting that. Another aside: Congratulations! You are learning that argumentative people just can't simply answer your questions. They have to attack your motives for asking. I dunno, it must be in the DNA or something.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #70 November 5, 2007 3-2-1.. Speakers Corner!!!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #71 November 5, 2007 Whew! Glad you didn't say IBTL!My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #72 November 5, 2007 i didnt say WHAT!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #73 November 5, 2007 Nice try. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #74 November 5, 2007 “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #75 November 5, 2007 Quote why in the latest issue of Parachutist, which covers USPA Nationals, at which AIRSPEED MADE A CLEAN SWEEP of 4-way (highest average ever), 8-way, 10-way and 16-way, THERE IS NOT ONE PHOTO OF AIRSPEED? Not in the air, not collecting medals, nothing. Maybe cause only a very very small percentage of skydivers actually compete. and then there's all those people that have gone to the "dark side". Oh and people from other countries can and do join the USPA. As far as the calendar - The calendar is about skydivers doing skydiving stuff. Does it really matter what country they are from? I didn't think we, as skydivers really cared what someone did for a living or where they are from as long as they jumped. I guess times have changed. jBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
