Flaring

[taylor.freefall 0]

Just a quickie - I got my A license yesterday and, due to not using student canopies anymore, was told rather than to flare between 8 - 12 feet above the ground all in one go gradually flare to shoulder height then when coming into land bring the toggles all the way down and run it out. Anyway who is right, the one who says flare all at once or flare gradually and run it out?

[dragon2 2]

It's called a two-stage flare. If you flare in one go you may very well pop up a few meters with a non-student canopy The canopy needs to plane out, let it fly a bit, then land. Go look at non-student non-tandem landings if you have the chance, you'll see what I mean. Try the flare up high a few times to get the hang of this, do that with every new canopy you're jumping.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[grannyinthesky 0]

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Just a quickie - I got my A license yesterday

Congratulations. The way the weather is around here, it's gonna be March before I get there.

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[taylor.freefall 0]

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Just a quickie - I got my A license yesterday

Congratulations. The way the weather is around here, it's gonna be March before I get there.

Hey thankyou I'm hopefully going to go for a beer tonight haha! Lucky I did it yesterday - it's pouring down now

[taylor.freefall 0]

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It's called a two-stage flare. If you flare in one go you may very well pop up a few meters with a non-student canopy The canopy needs to plane out, let it fly a bit, then land. Go look at non-student non-tandem landings if you have the chance, you'll see what I mean. Try the flare up high a few times to get the hang of this, do that with every new canopy you're jumping.

Ah yes that makes sense - I have done that thing where it takes you back up in the air and then just drops you from a great height - then I flared later, scraped my ass across the ground and back airbourne again. Thats why I was pulled to one side - they saw my late (very late) flare and thourght I was going to squish on the floor. Oh well pratice makes perfect.

[councilman24 37]

It is NOT student versus non-student "canopy" that makes the difference! Experience jumpers can and do use student type canopies.

It is type and model dependant. And some student canopies can benifit from a two stage flare depending on how they are set up and loaded.

Please beaware that you need specific information on the canopy model and size your jumping. Not generic information such as "now your not a student do a two stage flare". It may not or may not apply.

This is a time when you will get a lot of advice from people that shouldn't be giving it. The 50 jump wonder who thinks because they read dropzone.com they know everything. Please be aware of who your getting advice from. Lots of good people want to give you good advice and not everything has only one answer. But there is lots of bad advice available also.

Especially here. Kind of kidding. But really if you don't know the poster at least by reputation or recommendation then I tell people to consider internet advice like finding a piece of used chewing gum on the street. You know who it's from, where it's been, if it's any good or if it will kill you.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Andy9o8 2]

I'm going to echo this - and to the OP, I'll say: this is the perfect time to get some good in-person canopy coaching. A 2-stage flare can be done properly, or improperly. For example, you need enough forward airspeed to give you a good flare. If you bleed off too much forward drive before the final stage of your flare, the flare could be compromised. Some old-school TI's even use a 3-stage form: partial brakes to plane out a bit and set up; then back to full-flight (but not too abruptly!) to regain more forward drive for a good flare; then flare. But of course, you don't know me from Adam, so don't listen to me - seriously. Get that canopy coaching.

[SPAWNmaster 0]

wise words from andy9o8.

i just got off student status finished my AFF the other day. i had been jumping a dolphin d4 with a raven 2 218 main. the harness on the student dolphin was just killing me in the legs, enough so that i wasn't having any fun whatsoever under canopy. the other thing was i wanted to try a different canopy so i started jumping a student vector with a 209 saffire.

let me just say that the 7 cell f111 raven vs 9 cell ZP saffire is an enormous difference. there is a remarkable amount of glide added from the ZP material and truly makes a difference in flaring. i went from doing smooth 3-stage flares on the raven to just holding half-brakes for a nice horizontal level where i can just put my feet down and be done with it on the zp saffire.

this is just my 2cts, i obviously don't have that much experience with just 16 jumps but it's what i noticed going from f111 material to zp. if you find that you're having inconsistent landings you might want to try going to a larger zp canopy. it may make the difference.

cheers,
andrew

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Just a quickie - I got my A license yesterday and, due to not using student canopies anymore, was told rather than to flare between 8 - 12 feet above the ground all in one go gradually flare to shoulder height then when coming into land bring the toggles all the way down and run it out. Anyway who is right, the one who says flare all at once or flare gradually and run it out?

It depends on the canopy. Most modern designs land with an interactive approach where you achieve level flight, add toggle until they're about done flying, and give them a final pitch increase to arrest your forward speed.

You shouldn't have to run unless you have a tail wind or are overloading the canopy. Most people don't do a good job managing their energy. While not critical with large parachutes and/or a head wind doing things right becomes essential for a comfortable injury free landing with a tail wind and/or smaller parachute.

F111 accuracy canopies and some of the mains used for students land best when you flare in one motion.

[ladydyver 0]

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I'm going to echo this - and to the OP, I'll say: this is the perfect time to get some good in-person canopy coaching. A 2-stage flare can be done properly, or improperly. For example, you need enough forward airspeed to give you a good flare. If you bleed off too much forward drive before the final stage of your flare, the flare could be compromised. Some old-school TI's even use a 3-stage form: partial brakes to plane out a bit and set up; then back to full-flight (but not too abruptly!) to regain more forward drive for a good flare; then flare. But of course, you don't know me from Adam, so don't listen to me - seriously. Get that canopy coaching.

Being a baby jumper and all..... a canopy control course was one of the best things I ever did and would recommend the course to anyone - esp with the video taping of my landings - but not only that - as a student I was processing so much information I didn't necessarily understand all of it. The canopy control course reinforced important aspects of jumping and canopy control.

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[itllclear 1]

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a canopy control course was one of the best things I ever did and would recommend the course to anyone - esp with the video taping of my landings - but not only that - as a student I was processing so much information I didn't necessarily understand all of it. The canopy control course reinforced important aspects of jumping and canopy control

If people would spend as much effort learning to fly canopies as they do to fly their bodies in free fall we'd have a lot fewer injuries.

The video debrief will be as important on canopy control as it is in freefall control. You may see that you weren't doing what you thought you were doing!

Good luck!

Harry

"Harry, whey did you land all they way out there? Nobody else landed out there?"

"Your statement answered your question"

"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."

"Your statement answered your question."

[Elisha 1]

Flaring is important. It can help you not-die or not get injured. Please do it on every jump and at the appropriate moment. Thank you.

[ladydyver 0]

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Flaring is important. It can help you not-die or not get injured. Please do it on every jump and at the appropriate moment. Thank you.

is that all I have to remember when I am landing actually, my hubby was saying those exact same words when I came in for a less than graceful landing the other day

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[hackish 8]

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Flaring is important. It can help you not-die or not get injured. Please do it on every jump and at the appropriate moment. Thank you.

Pullnig is also important, please don't forget to do that either.

When I was in DeLand I took the Scott Miller canopy control course. I got video of all the jumps and my instructor got me into the two stage flare. For me it wasn't quite as abrupt as others had described, more like a continuous motion that slows down in the middle and adapts to what the canopy is doing.

I'm no instructor but I can tell you the canopy course and video debriefs did a lot of good for me. In my case and for my canopy it could be flared as a 2 stage or just in one shot but the 2 stage thing seemed to leave more room for error.

-Michael

[Spizzzarko 0]

I feel that the "two Stage flare" is not a good description of propper flaring technique. Just pulling the toggles down half way and holding for a little bit and then flaring the rest of the way is not a good way to do it. Read below for more information:


Advanced Flying Techniques: Back to the Basics.

There has been quite a bit of discussion here online about how one should do this or that with their canopy to achieve the perfect swoop. I honestly do not think that there is only one answer, but I strongly feel that a good foundation of proper techniques will allow you to build your skills faster than just skipping ahead to a smaller faster canopy.

What I have written is aimed at the canopy pilot who wants to start swooping, but there are good ideas for everyone who lands a parachute in this article. Please do not go out and fly yourself into the earth after reading my thoughts on landing, as the ultimate responsibility relies squarely on your shoulders to not hurt yourself or others.

Many people here online will tell you to read Brian Germain's book. I think it is a good book, but I do not think that just reading his book will automatically make you a better canopy pilot. Among the many good things Brian expresses in his book is the (now pay attention) ACTIVE PILOTING of your canopy. If you are coming out of your dive 20' high then you are not actively flying your canopy, conversely you are letting the canopy go where it wants to go. If you do that then your canopy ultimately will put you into a place where you do not want to be. There are two ways to fly your canopy, proactively, and reactively.

The proactive method of flying a canopy starts before you exit the aircraft. You have to look down before exiting and ask yourself "Am I further from the DZ than I want to be?" If so then you may want to pull a little higher. In addition, you need to evaluate how many people are on the load with you and what their habits are. In this evaluation, you need to consider when the bulk of the people will be clogging up the traffic pattern and adjust your dive accordingly. At this stage in the game, you really need to back off from doing turns greater than a 90 with traffic about. You need to be able to focus all of your concentration on flying through your turn instead of having to look around during your turn to watch for other traffic. Eventually you will become less task saturated in your turn and you will be able to see more of what is going on around you. This will come with time and experience. On the other hand, the reactive method of flying a canopy is to go out and do everything as you normally do, to not pay attention to the changing environment around you, and to deal with every situation as it develops. You can do this if you want but you will be so involved in dealing with each little development that you will never be able to be as consistent as you could be if you planned your flight. I'm not saying that you need to be a totally proactive flyer and throw all of your reactivity out the window, but you need to find a way to incorporate much more proactivity than reactivity into your flight plan (YES!!! you really need to start dirt diving your canopy flight). This harmony between being proactive and reactive is probably the most important thing that you need to develop because everything you do in swooping builds upon this concept.

The next thing you need to focus on is consistency. Consistency will allow you to remove as many variables from the situation as possible (yes your second grade teacher Mrs. Pote was correct when she said that every thing you do in life would involve math!). Variables in the swooping equation fall under two categories, ones you can control and ones you cannot control. The ones you have control over can possibly be eliminated. This is PROACTIVE flying. The ones you cannot control require REACTIVE flying. Do you see why you need to be able to fly in both modes and how it all builds on those two concepts? Some examples of controllable variables include when you enter the traffic pattern and where you enter the traffic pattern. When you enter, the traffic pattern will dictate how much traffic you have to deal with. Where you enter the traffic pattern will also dictate how much traffic you have to deal with. Remember traffic is not your friend when you are learning to swoop. Things you cannot control are usually environmental factors such as wind and density altitude. You will have to be proactive and reactive to deal with both of these factors because they change on every jump. You can plan for them, but do not get so entrenched into a plan that you cannot adapt to the changing external environment.

Another important part of being consistent is your traffic pattern. You need to start flying the same pattern on every jump. We teach you to fly a pattern in AFF, but many people blow it off because they see the more experienced jumpers flying erratic patterns. I feel that the pattern is probably one of the most underutilized tools to getting a good swoop. If you enter each leg of your pattern at the same altitude every time, then you are removing variables to your swoop and then you can concentrate more on your turn. Being consistent also, telegraphs to people over time that you will do pretty much the same thing every time and then other jumpers can learn to stay out of your way. Exhibiting a good example helps you out and encourages lower experienced jumpers to fly in a safer more predictable manner. When this happens, the traffic pattern becomes safer for everyone involved. In addition to flying your pattern, you need to have a good understanding of the dynamics of your turn to final.

In every turn, three variables will combine to give you the outcome of your turn. These are altitude, turn rate, and amount of turn. Each of these variables correlate with each other and changing one will affect the other two. An example of this would be arriving at your turn initiation point lower than you want to. To alleviate this you can either increase your turn rate, or decrease the turn amount, or a combination of the two. If you are consistent in your pattern then you should be arriving at your turn initiation point at the same altitude on each jump. Now the only uncontrollable variables are wind and density altitude. You can eliminate the wind variable by rotating your pattern so that you will end up flying into the wind for landing (this is common at most drop zones...). A good idea would be to scope out some landmarks on your landing area that you can use for the possible directions of your pattern. Therefore, with density altitude being the only variable, you can now REACTIVELY fly to overcome this variable by increasing or your turn rate, or decreasing the amount of turn that you do. Do you see how every choice you make effects another outcome later in your swoop?

With this talk about increasing your turn rate and decreasing the amount of turn, you need to keep one thing in mind at all times. DO NOT FLY INTO THE EARTH AT A HIGH RATE OF SPEED. This will probably kill you. Even though it is a simple concept, it is probably the most important concept out there. You owe it to your friends and family to keep this concept fresh in your mind. With experience, you will gain the knowledge of when to bail out of a turn and what you can and cannot get away with when landing. We all learn more and more of this on every jump. It is not something we are born with, but something we need to develop over time. The one thing we are born with is instinct, and if you feel that you are getting into the corner then you very well might be, so take corrective actions to fix the situation immediately by getting your wing level and flaring as needed.

In the plane out rear risers or toggles are the two ways to control our canopies. I would suggest that you forget about using your rears for right now. Using the rear risers adds another dimension of complexity to swooping that you do not need at this time. For example, rear risers are more efficient if used properly, but they will cause your canopy to stall at a higher airspeed. If you use them to dig yourself out of the corner then you can find your self in the stalled configuration at a very high airspeed and violating that important concept that I elaborated upon earlier. I have seen people flying rears much too early in there progression and learning very bad habits that will short them on distance later on down the road.

Let us go a little more in depth about flaring your canopy. Unfortunately, there is a lot of bad advice out there in regards to flaring. I have heard things like “when you get scarred jam on them!” or “use a two staged flare”. I think when people are talking about staged flares they are just passing on bad information! Think of it this way. In its simplistic form, there are three areas to a landing.

1. Approach
2. Plane out
3. Stopping

To transition from your approach to plane out, you need to give input to the canopy whether it is toggles or rears. Now do you stop from there? NO. You have to give more input to the canopy to transition from plane out to stopping. Now I'm going to introduce a little bit more of a radical concept here, so everyone take a second and catch your breath...

First of all wee need to get rid of this concept of a two or three staged flare. You do not come in flare halfway, stop, and then flare the rest of the way do you? If so, you are doing it wrong. Does that method work? Yes, sometimes, but we are a little more advanced than that, are we not? I believed the old timers who were transitioning from F-111 to ZP canopies brought about this concept. They used this method when their canopies would balloon up after they flared all the way, as they were used to doing with their F-111's.

Let us take the three areas that I spoke of earlier and make them into just one simplistic concept.

1. Landing

You need to start thinking this way because, when you are transitioning to smaller faster canopy's, landing does not just happen when your altitude reaches zero. Many of the more advanced canopy pilots here will probably agree with me that landing for them starts after they get everything stowed away after an opening. Watch them, and talk to them, and you will soon see that every maneuver they make is to set up for landing. There is no more "Playing Around" when you get to small canopies. Now let us get back to landing. Your approach flare and stopping should all be one smooth movement and you should only flare as much as you need to maintain the altitude above the ground that you want. Some people have a difficult time with this, and I think it is because they are judging their altitude from the wrong area of the ground. If you are on top of a tall ladder and look straight down it is scary, but if you look at the horizon, you can still tell that you are high up with out the looming effect of the ground.

Try looking at or just below the horizon when you are beginning to plane out. This will allow you to judge your altitude more effectively. To illustrate this standup right now and look at a far doorknob or something out your window on the horizon. Now stand on your toes, and then back on your flat feet. Do you see the difference in your sight picture when you do this? In all actuality, you have only moved 2 to 3 inches if that.

Now that you have your sight picture mastered, think about continuing your flare only as much as you need to so that your sight picture does not change. Now that we are flying flat and level over the ground, we eventually need to stop. To do this you just need to keep flaring, and maintaining your sight picture. Eventually you will have flared so much that your canopy will no longer be able to produce the amount of lift required to hold your body weight in the air. This is usually when you put your feet down on the ground.

If you watch people land, you will soon notice that many of them do not flare their canopies all the way, and this is the cause of many jumpers landing problems. If you are flaring properly then you should not have to run out your landings very much even on low wind to no wind days.
In addition to changing your mindset about landing, it would behoove you to begin to fly your canopy as smoothly as possible. Erratic flying can be more of a hazard than a joy. Realize that you’re suspended below your wing and if you are flying in an uncontrolled manner then your canopy could turn before you do. This of course can cause line twists and if you combine uncontrolled flying with turbulence, you could be in a lot more of a bad situation than just line twists. In the future flying smoothly will increase the distance of your swoops.

I hope that this has helped you out. Please get coaching from a COMPETENT instructor. Some people will tell you that they can teach you anything, but remember you get what you pay for in this sport and get good instruction from a qualified canopy coach like Scott Miller, Brian Germain, or Ian Bobo to name a few is priceless. Be careful out there, and good luck.

[billvon 3,111]

> I feel that the "two Stage flare" is not a good description of propper flaring technique.

Agreed. It gives the false impression that landing happens in two distinct stages. Pull to here, then to here, and you'll land OK.

Any good landing is a process, not a series of discrete steps. You have to get your vertical speed to zero as your feet almost touch the ground, then hold them there while you bleed off speed. And while that is sort of two steps, it's more a description of what it looks like than of what you _do._

Also a note on something I think many people have a problem with:

"DO NOT FLY INTO THE EARTH AT A HIGH RATE OF SPEED."

This is good advice, naturally. But when someone gets a new canopy, and that statement is in the forefront of their mind, then their response when they get low is to slow down. They start flaring at 50 feet a bit because, after all, the ground is coming up really fast, and they do not want to be injured!

In a way, you have to PLAN to fly at the ground at a high rate of speed and then stop yourself "at the last minute." Speed is your friend during the flare, and it's important to keep enough of it to stop yourself until you have zeroed your vertical speed at a very low altitude (inches, not feet.)

[taylor.freefall 0]

Just to go off the subject a little bit I think it also matters, quite a lot, what you're landing on - well for learners anyway. I normally land in dusty soil with bits of stone which can be quite forgiving if you have a crappy landing, unless however it's been raining - then dries out again, then it's like landing on concrete and those stones are like bits of glass sticking out. I fell and cut my hands to ribbons, now I use gloves even when it's hot just in case, I'm still falling over on lots of landings anyway. Really it would be better to use sand for the learners landing area.

[Spizzzarko 0]

"DO NOT FLY INTO THE EARTH AT A HIGH RATE OF SPEED."

"In a way, you have to PLAN to fly at the ground at a high rate of speed and then stop yourself "at the last minute." Speed is your friend during the flare, and it's important to keep enough of it to stop yourself until you have zeroed your vertical speed at a very low altitude (inches, not feet.)"


Bill, you are taking what I wrote out of context. The intent of that sentance is to tell people not to impact the earth at a high rate of speed. The ground usually wins in that battle.

[millertime24 8]

We need to talk about your flare...

Muff #5048

[poe62 0]

Niiiiiiice...

Some people just don't like to talk about it. hahaha

~Nikki
http://www.facebook.com/poe62

Irgity Dirgity

[billvon 3,111]

>The intent of that sentance is to tell people not to impact the earth at a
>high rate of speed.

I agree, which is why I said it is good advice. I just think it is important to caveat that when telling newer jumpers about it, so they do not think that speed NEAR the ground is their enemy. I've seen that cause a lot of hard landings.

[billvon 3,111]

>Really it would be better to use sand for the learners landing area.

For students I'd agree - but for people learning to land their own canopies (loaded around, say, 1 to 1) I would argue that grass might be better. You can run out landings more easily, it's easier to slide, and it's still (relatively) soft if it's maintained well.*

(* - that caveat is there to distinguish good grass landing areas from the crater-pocked, grass-hummocked indifferently maintained areas that develop at some DZ's.)

[mnskydiver688 0]

Hey don't talk about our alfalfa field like that!

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

[HillerMyLife 0]

You are getting a lot of good feedback and its good to see that you are interested in furthering your education past the A license point. That was and still is one of my biggest points of contention with the licensing system. We teach you up to a certain point and then off you go!!

It would be nice to see another stage of education developed for after the next 25 jumps of a new jumpers, almost like a "We let you out of the nest for a bit, now were going to bring you back just for a bit and see where you are". Anyway I'll get off my soapbox

Quality coaching and video is key for all aspects of skydiving but none more so that canopy control. If your DZ has experienced canopy pilots that are willing and able to share their expertise with you and video and critique your landings you will be well on your way to a much more controlled and comfortable canopy flight and landing experience. Remember the video cannot lie!

Someday Never Comes