future of canopies

[GaryRay 0]

so i was sitting back doing nothing which is awesome and i started to think....we have gone from rounds, to cut up rounds, to hearts, to squares, to elliptical's, so what is next in the future of the canopy? do we go triple winged, boomerang style or what else could ya think of...


Discuss.

JewBag.
www.jewbag.wordpress.com

[billvon 3,111]

Internally instead of externally pressurized. No more hard openings, as rigid as you want.

[BillyVance 35]

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Internally instead of externally pressurized. No more hard openings, as rigid as you want.

Aren't those called air-locked canopies, like those made by Brian Germain?

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[billvon 3,111]

>Aren't those called air-locked canopies, like those made by Brian Germain?

Those are still externally pressurized (external ambient air used to pressurize them.) The original patent on the airlock actually came from Jalbert's patent on the "aerial sled" back in 1976.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Internally instead of externally pressurized. No more hard openings, as rigid as you want.

Aren't those called air-locked canopies, like those made by Brian Germain?

No. We're talking about deployable inflatable rigidizable wings.

The inflatable leading edge on some kite surfing kites would be the closest consumer example.

Something like this:


http://www.spacedaily.com/news/plane-inflatable-wing-01a.html



http://www.ilcdover.com/products/aerospace_defense/uavwings.htm


We'd go faster and farther swooping with hang-glider like aerodynamics.

[danielcroft 2]

And it'd be fun to land in high wind...

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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And it'd be fun to land in high wind...

The same technique used to manage airlocked canopies should work fine.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Internally instead of externally pressurized. No more hard openings, as rigid as you want.

Oh, that. It's already been designed and patented.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7250026.html

[danielcroft 2]

If it's internally pressurized I'd presume that there'd need to be some release mechanism before the pressure could equalize, no?

The loudest complaint I've heard (maybe I haven't been listening enough) about air locked canopies is that they're a pain to land due to the pressure & subsequently pack.

Maybe I'm off base on the assumption that an internally pressurized wing would result in a more extreme version of these problems.

[billvon 3,111]

> If it's internally pressurized I'd presume that there'd need to be
>some release mechanism before the pressure could equalize, no?

You mean a way to deflate them? Definitely.

>Maybe I'm off base on the assumption that an internally pressurized
>wing would result in a more extreme version of these problems.

It would indeed. But given that people are willing to use RDSes (which greatly increases system complexity and chances of a rigging error) and sailcloth canopies (which pack up HUGE) I have a feeling it would not be a show stopper.

Put it this way. The instant someone wins a swoop competition with one of these, swoopers will be telling people "well, if you can't handle it, that's fine. It does take a lot more skill to collapse one of these things, no doubt about it!"

[danielcroft 2]

LOL, for sure!

We'd undoubtedly all read the first incidents with real concern and discomfort. It is inevitable that technology moves on of course but for what purpose? Competition is certainly one of them. I'd certainly be waiting until the "saving my ass when I screw up" technology caught up though.

[billvon 3,111]

> It is inevitable that technology moves on of course but for what purpose?

Why do intermediate skydivers need Katana 170's? Because it's what the big boys jump.

An intermediate step here would be an inflatable spar that is inflated after deployment to stiffen/reshape the wing.

[danielcroft 2]

Ok but ego isn't a *good* reason.

[piisfish 140]

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No. We're talking about deployable inflatable rigidizable wings.

The inflatable leading edge on some kite surfing kites would be the closest consumer example.

Something like this:

www.jet-man.com/prod/index_en.html then go to "performances" and then "flying man"

or like this

www.woopyjump.com

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[VectorBoy 0]

Changes in materials that can be glued instead of sewn. No pucker as a result allowing creators a more defined wing shape not possible today for more efficiency.

Thinner, stronger textiles, more UV resistant. Thiner stronger lines able to resist wear and remain dimensionally stable longer.

Or maybe just cheaper and cool chic styley colors.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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If it's internally pressurized I'd presume that there'd need to be some release mechanism before the pressure could equalize, no?

The loudest complaint I've heard (maybe I haven't been listening enough) about air locked canopies is that they're a pain to land due to the pressure & subsequently pack.

I've put hundreds of jumps on my Samurai 105 and it's just not a problem. You just have to read the instruction manual.

In high winds you dive the canopy into the ground and land it on its topskin with the nose facing you. You can stow your brakes and let it float there until you walk over and deal with collapsing it. A fully rigid wing would do the same thing.

After that you just need to run the slider up the lines and yank on the tail a few times to get a reasonable amount of air out. The "ears" will be fluffier once you have your pro-pack on the ground but not unmanageably huge.

In lower winds you just land the canopy on its side. It'll collapse like an accordion about like a non air-locked canopy and not take appreciably more work to pack than any other ZP canopy.

Either way (low or high wind deflation) it's still a 6-7 minute pack job when you don't rush things which is plenty fast when airplanes take 20 minutes to turn around.

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Maybe I'm off base on the assumption that an internally pressurized wing would result in a more extreme version of these problems.

Some one will have to work out a dump valve system that lets the air out fast but it shouldn't be an issue.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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LOL, for sure!

We'd undoubtedly all read the first incidents with real concern and discomfort. It is inevitable that technology moves on of course but for what purpose? Competition is certainly one of them. I'd certainly be waiting until the "saving my ass when I screw up" technology caught up though.

Better glide ratio to get back from long spots and for better penetration into winds, lower stall speeds so the broken, fat, and/or old among us don't have to run as fast when we have a less than perfect landing with a tail wind.

[hackish 8]

As VectorBoy mentions canopies that are not sewn. I read a paper on some sort of laser "welding" or "gluing" and it resulted in a canopy that packed much smaller. I suspect we will find these as the next major advancement.

Did some searching - couldn't find the paper but I think the material was called Cuben Fiber. I`m sure someone in the industry who has actually attended the PIA symposiums could add more about it.

-Michael

[danielcroft 2]

Thanks for that, I knew there was a way but don't own one so I don't know. I was repeating what others have said are the reasons for not owning an air locked canopy. Actually, I want to get one so don't count me as someone that's against the idea.

Rossy's inflatable wing is pretty damn cool actually, interesting idea.

[NealFitz 0]

Jump one of these bad boys- single skinned paradactyls or something like that our instructor on holiday has two of these, one is a reserve.................

Dudeist Skydiver #170
You do not need a parachute to skydive, you only need one to skydive again

[VTmotoMike08 0]

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>Aren't those called air-locked canopies, like those made by Brian Germain?

Those are still externally pressurized (external ambient air used to pressurize them.) The original patent on the airlock actually came from Jalbert's patent on the "aerial sled" back in 1976.

OK, maybe I am not understanding this right. It seems to me that the entire concept of internal pressurization conflicts with the idea of skydiving as we know it. So you have a rig on your back. The canopy is not infalted because, well its packed in your rig. In order for that canopy to become inflated, air must be added from the outside. Unless you had some kind of gas reaction that caused gases to inflate your canopy from the inside (huh?), then you must inflate it with outside air. All those wing things shown and linked lack the ability to be deployed from terminal.

[billvon 3,111]

>Unless you had some kind of gas reaction that caused gases to inflate
>your canopy from the inside. . .

Right. Specifically I'm talking about inflating it with an internal source of compressed air, nitrogen or CO2. Think one of those life raft cartridges.

[VTmotoMike08 0]

Seems unlikely to me, but you never know what technology would come up with...

Think what an accidental activation inside the plane would look like

[riggerrob 643]

The United States Navy tested glued parachutes thirty years ago. Back then glue was considerably weaker than sewing. Glues have improved considerably over the years.

The latest hiking gear is glued together, e.g. my Arcteryx raincoat. It packs significantly smaller than my old raincoat made of similar fabric.
A year or two ago, Atair announced that they were experimenting with glued canopies in company with the University of Alberta. Specifically, Atair was experimenting with threads glued to loaded ribs - at various angles - to spread the loads from line attachment points more evenly. This is a variation on techniques used by elite sail-makers, who glue together sails for high-end sailboat racers.

One disadvantage of glued canopies will be increased rates charged by packers' unions. Currently, the most popular method of deflating ZP canopies is squeezing air out through sewing holes.

[billvon 3,111]

>Specifically, Atair was experimenting with threads glued to loaded ribs -
>at various angles - to spread the loads from line attachment points more
> evenly.

IIRC that's two separate areas Dan was working on. He talked about them at the last PIA.

One was gluing canopies. He's done that.

Two is laminated structural fabrics, similar to how boat sails are made nowadays. The yarn is laid down on a plastic substrate and oriented such that the material is strongest at the line attach point. This has the potential to make the canopy stronger, but more importantly provides more structural integrity to the canopy; it holds its shape better.