Tandem question??

[peek 21]

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Why is it that I am seeing more and more Tandem instructors do Butt landings.

Because the canopies available/preferred now are not well suited to stand-up landings unless there is a certain amount of wind.

So why why do you suppose we now see so many solo students landing on their butts instead of doing the proper PLF when a stand-up landing is not possible? They were "trained" to do that on their tandem jump.

[Jumpdude 0]

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Why is it that I am seeing more and more Tandem instructors do Butt landings.

Because the canopies available/preferred now are not well suited to stand-up landings unless there is a certain amount of wind.

So why why do you suppose we now see so many solo students landing on their butts instead of doing the proper PLF when a stand-up landing is not possible? They were "trained" to do that on their tandem jump.

I only have just under 500 jumps, and I can rightfully say that I have had 1 butt landing and that one was a situation that I landed on a wet spot in the landing area at Cullman. Feet just slid out from under me. Almost all of my landings have been standup or at most took a knee. I jump a 300, so landings is no issue for me, not even when I was a Tandem student.

I do see where either type of landing would be preferred at the TI's preference, so on this subject, I think that being that everyone knows I don't have the rating yet, I have only stated my opinion and I guess I will not fully understand the facts of either landing until I get the rating.

Refuse to Lose!!!
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[danielcroft 2]

I got my license via tandem progression. 3 tandems & then 1 instructor. All my tandem landings were butt slides, so was my L4. That was the last butt landing I did. Hurt for months. Any time I had problems on landing from there on in I PLFed.

I'm going to go with the TIs on this one, if they say it's safer to butt slide then it's safer to butt slide. Don't know why it would be a point of contention?

[normiss 859]

Please bear in mind I am only Tandem rated, not AFF.

In tandem landings we slide in on our butts because we can't get 4 legs to run, if we land the weight of 2 people on one ankle, something is going to get broken.
I can't imagine AFF instructors encouraging anyone to do a butt slide landing under a regular sport canopy. Only a matter of time until a back injury happens. Your legs are shock absorbers and should be used as such.

[Rover 11]

So you got a 'bump' on your buttocks on landing. You jump out of a plane, you got to accept the risk rather than play a blame game. Most of the damaged / broken ankles I've seen have been on stand up attempts. Although TIs do their best there is always the 'shit happens' factor.

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[danielcroft 2]

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Please bear in mind I am only Tandem rated, not AFF.

In tandem landings we slide in on our butts because we can't get 4 legs to run, if we land the weight of 2 people on one ankle, something is going to get broken.
I can't imagine AFF instructors encouraging anyone to do a butt slide landing under a regular sport canopy. Only a matter of time until a back injury happens. Your legs are shock absorbers and should be used as such.

Absolutely, I didn't mean to suggest that I was encouraged to do a butt slide landing, I did it because I got scared. The radio guys was calling out telling me to put my legs down but I freaked out. I learned the lesson the mildly uncomfortable way.

[Tuna-Salad 0]

Thank you for putting what I said in an earlier post into better words.. "because we can't get 4 legs to run"

70 jumps and I've seen maybe 5 tandems land for every jump.

If I were a tandem master (I'm far from it)

The equipment isn't mine.. I would not care about wear and tear on the gear when safety is the primary concern. If it comes down to me trying to stand up a landing and running over the student / cargo (whatever you guys call them) I would rather slide in on my butt.

2 legs is enough to fuck you up.. why add another set?

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[Tuna-Salad 0]

youre an idiot.....as you seem to think youre a jumper now -

How many jumps is it now before someone is considered a skydiver?

When I finished AFF I considered myself a skydiver but guess I was wrong.

Is there a specific number in the sim? Can this be confirmed?

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[danielcroft 2]

I didn't consider myself to be a skydiver until I got my A. Everyone else did though.

Let's lighten up here a bit everyone.

I personally think it's a fair comment to say that someone with no tandem jumps has very little on which to base an opinion in terms of the safest tandem landing method.

Asking the question is totally valid of course but I'm not surprised that you'd get shit for arguing the point with people with thousands of tandem jumps.

[skydude2000 3]

Hi guys,

Maybe I don't need to weigh in here, but I recently did a tandem checkout as a passenger. Only one tandem, I know, and I'm not a TI or examiner, whatever. I was actually quite concerned about a butt landing beforehand. It turned out fine, thankfully. If I'm not mistaken most T/I's need to do some passenger jumps for ratings, no? I just noticed that I was much lower than my T/I in the harness. Would that mean that I could be taking the brunt of the impact on a landing? Have any T/I's noticed or considered this on landing?

I ask because I once fractured my spine on a landing. I know on a tandem, it's controlled, etc. But as a passenger, I would have been less worried about a standup landing, breaking an ankle or getting my face beat up because the T/I fell on me, than I would be about another potential spinal injury, ending up in a wheelchair, or worse. I know that's the risk we take, but broken legs/ankles do heal.

PULL!! or DIE!!

[Tuna-Salad 0]

What I really want to know is...


Is the choice to butt land just something you do on every skydive with a tandem... or is the choice to stand up or slide in determined by how well your passenger takes the whole experience / weather.

In short.. is the choice made before the skydive or on the way down?

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[DZJumper 0]

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youre an idiot.....as you seem to think youre a jumper now...please think about all the things that can go wrong and all the stupid , unforseen and idiot things (YOU) a passenger can do....Show some respect to the sport and your tandemmasten...

Yah and I got a certificate to prove it to haha. But thanks a lot for the name calling, it shows how mature you are.

According to my DZ, your first jump your a skydiver. So I am a jumper now, deal with it. I paid a lot of money like everyone else to get where I/we are now.

But back to the topic at hand. I seen more tandems as I am spectating slide in, that looks like fun! Not sure why, but it looks effective for sure.

[diablopilot 2]

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In short.. is the choice made before the skydive or on the way down?

For me, in the flare.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[livendive 8]

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With respect.. having a D license or 15,000 jumps or TI ratings whatever doesn't make you better than someone with an A,

Maybe not in the grand scheme of things, but I'd argue it most certainly makes me better at doing tandems, which is kind of the point of this thread.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

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In short.. is the choice made before the skydive or on the way down?

For me, in the flare.

What he said. I train all my students for a sliding landing rather than a standing landing, because it's easy to switch them at the last second from a slide to a stand, but not so easy to switch them from a stand to a slide that late in the game. And I slide in every landing on which I'm not 99% sure at 5' that we can stand it up without running a step or two.

If I have a student who thinks they know better than me, I'd rather they take a FJC instead of doing a tandem, because I most certainly don't want them strapped to the front of me.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[mnskydiver688 0]

How does disconnecting the lower laterals affect standing or sliding in landings? Obviously I mean disconnecting after opening. Does it leave you with more flexibility or does it make controlling the student more difficult? I am looking at getting a tandem rating and I appreciate getting different opinions.

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

[normiss 859]

I don't disconnect them, I loosen them for their comfort. Fully disconnected could lead to injury on landing.

[livendive 8]

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How does disconnecting the lower laterals affect standing or sliding in landings? Obviously I mean disconnecting after opening. Does it leave you with more flexibility or does it make controlling the student more difficult? I am looking at getting a tandem rating and I appreciate getting different opinions.

After you've got a good canopy, loosening the lower straps makes almost everything better (the only exception being in the unusual event you later find yourself without a good canopy, e.g. a relatively high canopy collision). One thing I say on the subject to every TI who will listen is that they should be loosened, not disconnected. It's perfectly normal to need to disconnect them to loosen them, but after that they should be reconnected, or at least tucked away between the student and the instructor. You wouldn't think it would take a rocket scientist to figure out that a dangling hook in close proximity to where the dangling bottom loops of the toggles go could have ugly consequences, but we are talking about tandem masters here, and I can't count the number I've seen come in configured just like that, even after I've explained my own scare with such a practice. So knowing that you'll likely ignore me just like every other TI does, I'll still tell you...stow that shit or you'll die!

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[AggieDave 6]

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Fully disconnected could lead to injury on landing.

Sure, if you frap in and flip forward through your student. At that point you've already screwed up pretty bad.

Personally I disconnect them, that allows me to pop off the uppers once we touch down in any amount of wind and control the canopy with out trying to do so with another person (the student).

If you completely disconnect them, then reattach them to the student harness or to each other, or you could trap a control line in one of them!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."