Ron 10 #51 February 28, 2005 Quote In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thats you, not everyone. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- His point, ...EXACTLY! One man does not stop a train."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #52 February 28, 2005 Yah and lets stop having sex, driving motor cycles, breathing air in medium to large cities, driving to the DZ, and drinking while we are at it to. Get used to the envelope being pushed, its human nature. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #53 February 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteSerious mountaineering, and Formula 1 grand prix racing, to name but two, have way more fatalities (proportionally) than does swooping. Hasn't been an F1 driver fatality since Ratzenberger and Senna. There will always be people who choose to take that extra level of risk and there will always be people who call them crazy. Do you know what % of F1 world champions over the last 50 years have subsequently been kilied racing?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #54 February 28, 2005 QuoteDo you know what % of F1 world champions over the last 50 years have subsequently been kilied racing? The F1 analogy, while fun, isn't exactly a decent benchmark. Now if we could go and buy an F1 car off the lot (affordable and accessible) and drive it around without training...Any fatalities from that scenario may be interesting to correlate. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #55 February 28, 2005 Skydiving: Sport or Stupidity? -A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #56 February 28, 2005 QuoteIf my home DZ banned swooping tomorrow after they kicked me off I'd limit my jumps to those I made training for back country excursions or on an annual vacation. Without the fast landings skydiving wouldn't be fun enough to justify the packing effort, plane ride, wait, and lost weekends. Holding hands in the sky is a bit like dancing - ocassionally fun, not terribly exciting, and not worth the drive to a nice club. I agree. I am not a hot ass swooper yet, but it is my goal and what brings me to the dz. I don't think i'd bother jumping nearly as often if I couldn't swoop. And, i'd likely work down to a tremendously smaller canopy to get way more speed on landing w/o a swoop. Landing slowly is boring. jmo. -A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #57 February 28, 2005 QuoteI agree. I am not a hot ass swooper yet, but it is my goal and what brings me to the dz. Swooping is fun. But make sure you're NOT doing it by trial and error. Seek coaching from qualified people. It's well worth the money. I still have tons of work to do to make my swoops more consistent, but I just came off of another weekend of high performance canopy coaching out in Perris Valley and it's pretty cool to watch the video of my first jump of the weekend before the coaching kicked in, and then the video from the last coach jump I did. Man it looks like I actually know what I'm doing and well I do kind of know what I'm doing thanks to Jim's first rate coaching techniques. PS: If you'd like to see the before and after videos, PM me with an email address that I can send it to (there are two compressed WMV files). It's pretty cool to see the progression before and after my coaching. And of course I have so much more to work on and learn. But this was a very good weekend for me. I can't wait for our new pond to be built at the DZ. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #58 February 28, 2005 QuoteSwooping is fun. But make sure you're NOT doing it by trial and error. This is really off topic I think. This isn't a post on how to swoop safely, I was making a point about why I am in this sport right now. This is what I find enjoyable. PM me to chat if you'd like, but i'm sure you know i've gotten coaching and am a proponent of coaching myself from past posts of mine. Take care:) -A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #59 February 28, 2005 Quote Now if we could go and buy an F1 car off the lot (affordable and accessible) and drive it around without training...Any fatalities from that scenario may be interesting to correlate. You can get an R1 for somewhere around 10k. The performance below 150 is pretty similar, and with much less protection. The vid guys had fun in Hollister on Saturday, swooping down to run the cows off from the target area of the LZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #60 March 1, 2005 QuoteSkydiving: Sport or Stupidity? -A Skydiving is remarkably SAFE compared with climbing the high peaks of the Himalaya. Everest kills about 25% of those who attempt the summit, and K2 killed around 50% up to the 1990s. Nanga Parbat has a dismal record as a killer too, but it's down from the pre-1990 level of 77% fatalities. Currently Annapurna is looking pretty bad at 41% fatalities among climbers. Those are pretty bad odds. It's safer being an astronaut.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #61 March 1, 2005 Everest was 37% thru 1990, 4.4% since, for 9.3 overall. (successful summitters/fatalities - this rate doesn't consider those who wisely turn back short of the summit for time or weather reasons. And it counts all deaths, not just those who did summit) The number of expeditions has spiked dramatically over the past 20 years, tends to mask the death rate more than it probably should. Backing up, comparing recreational skydiving to the climbing of 8000m peaks is rather inappropriate. Ranier is already considered an advanced peak and its half the elevation. Wing'd BASE jumpers exploring new ridges in Norway are closer to the equilivent, even if it is possible to buy an Everest ticket for $65k. But I can take total rookies up the class 1 slope of Avalanche Gulch on Mt Shasta. Unless we're really stupid or extremely unlucky, worst case scenario is a broken ankle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #62 March 1, 2005 Quote Making stupid decisions under canopy is what kills people not some discipline of canopy flight. exactly.. of course (for some people) any mistake (stupid decision etc..) is counted as 'inexperience' (particularly when they are forming numbers to back their pov) instead of "a high speed mistake with potentially lethal consequences" ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #63 March 1, 2005 Quote Ranier is already considered an advanced peak and its half the elevation. Rainer was my first 'real' alpine expedition... i suppose there should have been a rule that said i couldnt climb it instead... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #64 March 1, 2005 QuoteDo you know what % of F1 world champions over the last 50 years have subsequently been kilied racing? Bit of a side track, but I suppose quite a few. However F1 in the last 15 years has been revolutionised and is in no way comparable to what was going on even 20 years ago, let alone 50. And Tonto, yes if we count marshals that adds 2 (?) fatal accidents, it also adds the multitudes of marshalls, pit crew, safety car drivers etc that don't get killed. And I still don't think swooping is stupid, if approached in the right way, as I hope to do some day.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shunkka 0 #65 March 1, 2005 Quote Swooping is giving Skydiving a bad name. totaly wrong... ------------------------- "jump, have fun, pull" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #66 March 1, 2005 QuoteSwooping is giving Skydiving a bad name. Swooping does not give Skydiving a bad name. Doing stupid thing while Swooping or Skydiving gives Skydiving a bad name. As with any other aspect of Skydiving, Swooping is not something that should be done without training. If you watch the top canopy pilots around today, what they can do with a canopy is mind blowing. But they didn't get there without training and working up to it slowly. Swooping scares the shit out of me, but it is really neat to watch and it is something that shows the excitement of Skydiving to earth bound woffos. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #67 March 2, 2005 That and I don't think the average whuffo would even realize or know that the majority of incidents occur while landing - so what would they care anyway? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #68 March 3, 2005 QuoteThat and I don't think the average whuffo would even realize or know that the majority of incidents occur while landing - so what would they care anyway? I think the average whuffo KNOWS it happens on landing... But I know what you mean. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #69 March 3, 2005 I disagree. Most wuffos I talk to think it is because the chute doesn't open. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #70 March 3, 2005 I think he meant "landing", as in impact with the earth. Because the air sure as hell isn't gonna do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #71 March 3, 2005 QuoteI think he meant "landing", as in impact with the earth. Because the air sure as hell isn't gonna do it. If I ever go in, when I am about 6 feet off the ground, I will look over at someone on the deck and say, "so far, so good". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #72 March 3, 2005 QuoteSwooping is giving Skydiving a bad name. You have got to be kidding me. Quick, someone ban alchohol because it's giving driving a bad name. Guns because they are giving criminals a bad name. Oh yeah, McDonalds too, because it's giving fat people a bad name.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #73 March 3, 2005 QuoteQuick, someone ban alchohol because it's giving driving a bad name. Guns because they are giving criminals a bad name. Oh yeah, McDonalds too, because it's giving fat people a bad name. People are working on 2 of the 3 for exactly that reasoning, and Prohibition happened only a couple generations ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #74 March 4, 2005 Spot on. Humour too dry for some, I guess... tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #75 March 4, 2005 QuoteIf I ever go in, when I am about 6 feet off the ground, I will look over at someone on the deck and say, "so far, so good". I like your other version....bounce by a kid and yell "Your fault""No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
