Do I have a problem?

[pilotdave 0]

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I prefere to talk about the subject at hand without someone going ape shit about jump numbers they THINK you have.

Ha... if you put your correct jump number in your profile, they'd only go ape shit about the jump numbers you really do have.
Back to your original question. Yes, I do think you have a problem. It's not that you're addicted to buying new gear... I think your problem is that you're a skydiver that fits a very high risk profile. You want to be jumping small canopies. You are planning out a downsizing progression that includes canopies that you're not even close to ready to jump. Don't get me wrong, you're not the idiot type that goes and buys those sorts of canopies and promises not to jump them till you're ready.

But you should realize that planning ahead to put 150 jumps on a canopy over one year and then downsizing again, possibly to a significantly higher performance canopy, all while being too embarrassed to share your actual jump numbers, is a sign of someone that wants to downsize quickly and get into high performance canopy flight. There may be nothing wrong with your progression... but just to answer your original question, I consider this to be a problem.

Then again, I'm kind of at the opposite end of the spectrum. I have over 1000 jumps on my canopy and no plans to downsize. Well, not quite true since I'm buying a smaller canopy for my backup rig (Tri 120). But that has nothing to do with performance... it's a bit slower than my regular canopy. The price was right and it beats my old PD150... by a little.

Dave

[pirana 0]

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OP,
So just out of curiosity, why don't you post your actual jump numbers in your profile?

Without trying to sound like a dick here, my jump numbers are my own buisness and honestly I could fill out my profile to say anything I wanted to so whats the point? I think people put too much stock into profiles on this website. I prefere to talk about the subject at hand without someone going ape shit about jump numbers they THINK you have.

Hmmmm. Your experience, an accurate description of it, including jump numbers, is the business of the people you jump with as well as anybody from whom you seek coaching and/or advice; even if it is just internet chat.

Why would you come on here, seeking chat and opinions, then when asked for accurate info about where you are at jumpwise say none of your business? Honesty and disclosure on information material to the conversation is a prerequisite if you want the same.

Unless there is reason to believe otherwise, best to take people on good faith; you'll get it in return. Nobody worth chatting with here is going to go ape unless it's called for - such as a newbie looking to do something they really should not - in which case getting apeshitted would be a good thing.

You can be pretty certain that just about everybody here (if not EVERYBODY here) has been there.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[gearless_chris 1]

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OP,
So just out of curiosity, why don't you post your actual jump numbers in your profile?

Without trying to sound like a dick here, my jump numbers are my own buisness and honestly I could fill out my profile to say anything I wanted to so whats the point? I think people put too much stock into profiles on this website. I prefere to talk about the subject at hand without someone going ape shit about jump numbers they THINK you have.

I had 420 jumps for a long time, I think the next time I update it, it will be to 35007 (turn your monitor upside down to see why). Jump numbers don't mean a whole lot depending on what you're discussing. Somone with 100 jumps at a turbine dropzone will probably be better at freefall than someone with 100 jumps at a 182 dropzone. We tend to do a lot of hop-n-pops at my home 182 dz, so my freefall time is way low for my real jump numbers, but I have huge amounts of time dedicated to flying my canopy. Also a person with 100 jumps that jumps with other low number jumpers isn't going to learn as much as they would jumping with people with a 1,000 jumps. Time in sport is pretty important is you've been a regular at the dz. If you made 20 jumps in 1970, took 30 years off and now have 38 years in the sport it doesn't really reflect your experience gained. I was surprised when I met Stratostar, I thought he would've been much older than he is

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[Skwrl 56]

I used to fly the hell out of my old Sabre2 210. I could even do a semi-swoop with it (with about a 1.0 wingloading). Within reason, it's all how you fly it.

I guess the question I have is "why do you want to downsize?"

But I agree with others - if you're going to downsize regularly, go used.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[millertime24 8]

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I used to fly the hell out of my old Sabre2 210. I could even do a semi-swoop with it (with about a 1.0 wingloading). Within reason, it's all how you fly it.

But I agree with others - if you're going to downsize regularly, go used.

True that. Even if I do buy new again Ill always buy off the shelf. Waiting 12 weeks and having to use rental/borrowed gear sucks.

To everyone else:
I actually typed up a long post, but decided not to post it in the interest of not pissing off people that I may meet and want to jump with later in life.

Muff #5048

[kkeenan 14]

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I actually typed up a long post, but decided not to post it in the interest of not pissing off people that I may meet and want to jump with later in life.

Ha ! That's some unusual foresight for posters here.

To respond to your original question - Yes, you do have a problem. You're concentrating on how good you're going to be and the hot gear you are going to jump rather than existing in the moment and dealing with your current gear and skill level. Try to maximize your skill with the gear that you have. The progression will take care of itself.

I'm almost burned out on responding to this sort of thing. Every guy who posts with the, "Jump numbers are not important, I'm special, I have mad skilz" line always thinks he's the first to feel that way. It's almost a revolving door on this forum. Some get their shit together and progress safely, some end up burning in. This is a high-risk activity. People ask for advice from those who have learned enough to survive it, then tell them to Fuck Off when they care enough to give their honest opinion.

Everyone knows the real answer. You're a grown-up and your life is your own to spend as you wish. My only request is that you ask your relatives, in the event of your death, to not bitch at folks on DZ.com who are discussing what a dumbass you were.

Kevin Keenan

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[gearless_chris 1]

You could copy/paste your response onto a notepad file, then when you want to respond, you just copy/paste back to dz.com.

Hopefully Miilertime24 will run into a mentor of some kind at his dz to help him along the way.

To Millertime24 if you want to make your 190 way more funner, learn how to land crosswind/downwind. Just be sure to let the rest of the load know ahead of time, and only do it there's no traffic issues. I suggest going out to the landing area and videoing landings for a while first. You'll get hours of video of the "sudden gust of wind blew my canopy over" miracle. It starts with reaching for the ground with one foot while they're two feet off the ground (I'm guessing that it's always the right foot because most people are right handed). As I'm sure you already know (since you're wanting to downsize) this starts a harness turn( to the right). When they feel the turn start they reach out to catch themselves, with the toggle still in their hand, causing the turn to increase. Next they stick their other hand up to "balance" themselves. So instead of flaring they make the most aggressive turn their canopy is capable of, good thing they were only a few feet off the ground to start with. If you tell them what they did they won't belive you, you'll have to show them the video . When you start to do downwind landings, start with very light winds (duh), and also when they are steady. I ended up doing a downwinder in 15 MPH winds once because I didn't pay attention to the weather off in the distance BEFORE I got on the plane. You will overshoot your target for a while since you won't get to practice this skill as much. Proper butt slide technique is important to prevent breaking stuff.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[millertime24 8]

I actually did that "put your hand down and try to catch yourself thing" once. Only once. I have learned about harness turns and I watch skydiving videos like its my job. Thats also what makes me want to take canopy controll courses and pull high to dick around. Im not out there rying to get hurt which is why I WANT to get as good as possible flying the canopy I have. I just dont think that it will take much more than about 150 jumps or less to do that.

Muff #5048

[Gato 0]

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You'll get hours of video of the "sudden gust of wind blew my canopy over" miracle. It starts with reaching for the ground with one foot while they're two feet off the ground (I'm guessing that it's always the right foot because most people are right handed). As I'm sure you already know (since you're wanting to downsize) this starts a harness turn( to the right). When they feel the turn start they reach out to catch themselves, with the toggle still in their hand, causing the turn to increase. Next they stick their other hand up to "balance" themselves. So instead of flaring they make the most aggressive turn their canopy is capable of, good thing they were only a few feet off the ground to start with. If you tell them what they did they won't believe you

WOW! You just described exactly what I did on my last jump last weekend! High (but steady) winds at altitude and on the ground. Luckily, I was only a foot off the ground when I did that, and managed to half-ass PLF (but not really!). Mine was to the left, not the right, so I'm special......

Afterward, the DZO, who had been watching the whole time, came up to me while I was un-gearing in the hangar and asked, "So, why do you think that just happened - what caused you to land like that?" All I could come up with was, "Uh...uneven flare? I was trying to compensate for the wind I felt blow me to the right, I guess."

His explanation was almost exactly what you said. He said he sees experienced jumpers do this all the time, and all of them are unaware of what they did, as well. I'm REALLY glad I was under my big-ass PD230 when it happened instead of something more aggressive - I LOVE my canopy!

His advice was that when I feel forward movement cease, just wait. Don't do anything - the ground WILL find you. Continue to fly your canopy all the way through the landing.

Thanks again, by the way, TD!!!!

T.I.N.S.

[QUADNUTS 0]

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I actually did that "put your hand down and try to catch yourself thing" once. Only once. I have learned about harness turns and I watch skydiving videos like its my job. Thats also what makes me want to take canopy controll courses and pull high to dick around. Im not out there rying to get hurt which is why I WANT to get as good as possible flying the canopy I have. I just dont think that it will take much more than about 150 jumps or less to do that.

I am new here and yes my jump numbers are correct (0) but i dont have a problem speaking up when there is someones safety or life at steak.From what i have learned being very new (green) to this sport is that listening to others advise can save your life and your not only risking your life but others around you if you rush into a smaller canopy because your over anxious.Not implying you are,just sounds like it.From what i have gatherd would i be out of line in sugesting that you should talk to others that you jump with on a regular basis that have allot of experience and may advise you on weather or not you may be ready to downsize?I am fairly certain they would be able to give you very good input based on your skill level and jump numbers if your ready to make a change.I personaly would much rather here someone say i dont think your ready then to make the decision on my own based on my own opinion of myself and end up hurting myself or a fellow skydiver because i really wasnt ready.You may want to reconsider using the term "dick around" when it has anything to do with skydiving.I havent made my first jump yet but when i do i hope there isnt anyone dickin around while im up there.
I know giving advise when you dont have experience in the topic of discussion can be a little tabu so please forgive me if i have upset anyone but it just falls back to anything in life thats high risk"Safety first and a whole lot of common sense and good judgement can carry you a long way"

Rob

[millertime24 8]

No offense intended, but go up your jump #'s then come talk to me. Dicking around under canopy is how you find out how it flies. That would be why you pull high. As for talking to people I actually KNOW I had an instructor tell me at 70 jumps that I was ready for a Nitron 170 (I didnt think I was ready yet). Point is opinions vary quite a bit and its really hard to determine what the BEST path to go down would be.

Muff #5048

[shropshire 0]

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I had an instructor tell me at 70 jumps that I was ready for a Nitron 170

Did he just happen to have one to sell? - Just kidding, but it does happen that way sometimes.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[gearless_chris 1]

Afterward, the DZO, who had been watching the whole time, came up to me while I was un-gearing in the hangar and asked, "So, why do you think that just happened - what caused you to land like that?" All I could come up with was, "Uh...uneven flare? I was trying to compensate for the wind I felt blow me to the right, I guess."

If you want to fly north and the wind is causing you to drift to the east, you would pull the left toggle just enough to make you stay on your intended line of flight. Now let's say you were landing in this situation, the left toggle is pulled 12 inches(just a number thrown in for example) to fly straight, and you flare with both hands even to your waist. The canopy will dive to the right because you quit compensating for the drift. In that case you would flare to your waist with your left hand, but your right should still be 12 inches above your waist. This is the second biggest problem I see people have when landing. I would suggest keeping your feet and knees together when landing crosswind until you're comfortable with the ground moving a different direction than your body is facing. You will hear a lot of people blame their bad landings on being a little off the windline, what they're really saying is that they haven't been learning how to fly the canopy since they were taken off the radio. I wonder how many incidents are on here because of people being scared to not land into the wind?

I was disappointed that people watching my yearend video didn't notice you can almost always read Go Fast on the windblade (or whatever's in the landing area to indicate wind direction) when I'm landing.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[pilotdave 0]

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If you want to fly north and the wind is causing you to drift to the east, you would pull the left toggle just enough to make you stay on your intended line of flight.

Another widely perpetrated myth.

You need to crab into the wind to avoid drifting. That means turning as necessary into the wind. Once you've got the heading you want, you no longer need to hold a toggle down. You cannot "sideslip" a canopy like you can sideslip an airplane... we have no rudder.

Dave

[AggieDave 6]

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You cannot "sideslip" a canopy like you can sideslip an airplane... we have no rudder.

You can to a point. More like a side slide with a canopy. It involved your harness and a little riser input and its easier to do on a highly loaded canopy.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[gearless_chris 1]

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No offense intended, but go up your jump #'s then come talk to me. Dicking around under canopy is how you find out how it flies. That would be why you pull high. As for talking to people I actually KNOW I had an instructor tell me at 70 jumps that I was ready for a Nitron 170 (I didnt think I was ready yet). Point is opinions vary quite a bit and its really hard to determine what the BEST path to go down would be.

I'm guessing you asked to downsize. I'm also guessing that he suggested a Nitron 170 because it's very docile for a fully elliptical. I have no doubt that my Monarch 215 was actually faster than my 170 Nitron other than the turn rate. According to my Neptune I could hit 43 MPH spiraling with the Monarch, only hit 37 MPH with the Nitron. One of my friends had a 169 Saphire 2 (approx. 1.2 W/L) , we could fly together well with my Monarch (1.1 W/L). When I got my Nitron(1.4 W/L) I couldn't keep up with him anymore, unless he was below me and I could spiral down to build speed.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[LloydDobbler 2]

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No offense intended, but go up your jump #'s then come talk to me.

No offense intended, but I find it a little silly that a guy who keeps arguing that 'my jump numbers are my business' is judging someone else based on their jump numbers.

Signatures are the new black.

[gearless_chris 1]

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No offense intended, but go up your jump #'s then come talk to me.

No offense intended, but I find it a little silly that a guy who keeps arguing that 'my jump numbers are my business' is judging someone else based on their jump numbers.

You're not supposed to notice that .

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[DanG 1]

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You can to a point. More like a side slide with a canopy. It involved your harness and a little riser input and its easier to do on a highly loaded canopy.

I think the important point is that pulling down on a toggle 12 inches will result in a turn regardless of what the direction of the wind is (and yes, you can compensate with riser/harness to continue flying straight, but that's not what gearless said).

Another good point is not to take canopy piloting advice from people on the internet, especially people who have so few jumps they refuse to post their true experience.

- Dan G

[Butters 0]

You stated that jump numbers don't matter.

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Without trying to sound like a dick here, my jump numbers are my own buisness and honestly I could fill out my profile to say anything I wanted to so whats the point? I think people put too much stock into profiles on this website. I prefere to talk about the subject at hand without someone going ape shit about jump numbers they THINK you have.

Then you stated that jump numbers do matter.

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No offense intended, but go up your jump #'s then come talk to me.

So which is it?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[AggieDave 6]

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I think the important point is that pulling down on a toggle 12 inches will result in a turn regardless of what the direction of the wind is (and yes, you can compensate with riser/harness to continue flying straight, but that's not what gearless said).

I know what Gearless was saying, I was disputing what our experienced commercial airline pilot was saying about canopy flight.

Tell you what, I'm sorry I don't have my D# listed anymore and I haven't updated my jump numbers in a while either. I didn't place in the top 10 at nationals either, so I guess I'm full of shit.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[millertime24 8]

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No offense intended, but go up your jump #'s then come talk to me.

No offense intended, but I find it a little silly that a guy who keeps arguing that 'my jump numbers are my business' is judging someone else based on their jump numbers.

No offense intended, but he made his jump #'s known to everyone and still gave advice as if he knew what he was talking about and how canopies should be flown. As of right now you still have no idea how many jumps I have. You cant judge me on jump #'s which is exactly the way I want it.

Again for the profile nazi's, the question was not "Do you think that this is a safe wingloading for my experience level?". My question was is it normal for people to buy brand new gear, not be impressed as they thought they would be, and start looking for something else that they will buy a YEAR FROM NOW with many more jumps under their belt?

Muff #5048

[gearless_chris 1]

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If you want to fly north and the wind is causing you to drift to the east, you would pull the left toggle just enough to make you stay on your intended line of flight.

Another widely perpetrated myth.

You need to crab into the wind to avoid drifting. That means turning as necessary into the wind. Once you've got the heading you want, you no longer need to hold a toggle down. You cannot "sideslip" a canopy like you can sideslip an airplane... we have no rudder.

Dave

Crabbing is making a series of turns to go in a straight line, like a crab walking right? What I was talking about is making a small turn to do the same thing. Your body may not be pointed the same direction as the line of flight. It's a shame I don't have outside video to show what I'm talking about. From my videos you can't tell that I'm almost looking over my right shoulder to see where I'm going. If I had a top mount instead of a side mount you might be able to see the suspension lines.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[Butters 0]

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No offense intended, but he made his jump #'s known to everyone and still gave advice as if he knew what he was talking about and how canopies should be flown.

How do you know he gave his real jump numbers?

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... I could fill out my profile to say anything I wanted to so whats the point ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[gearless_chris 1]

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No offense intended, but go up your jump #'s then come talk to me.

No offense intended, but I find it a little silly that a guy who keeps arguing that 'my jump numbers are my business' is judging someone else based on their jump numbers.

No offense intended, but he made his jump #'s known to everyone and still gave advice as if he knew what he was talking about and how canopies should be flown. As of right now you still have no idea how many jumps I have. You cant judge me on jump #'s which is exactly the way I want it.

Again for the profile nazi's, the question was not "Do you think that this is a safe wingloading for my experience level?". My question was is it normal for people to buy brand new gear, not be impressed as they thought they would be, and start looking for something else that they will buy a YEAR FROM NOW with many more jumps under their belt?

I'm with you on this one . I was not as impressed with my Nitron as I thought I would be, and I did buy another canopy, although it was three years later not one, and I demo'd a lot this time before I bought. Sadly it didn't help a whole lot since the canopy I got didn't compare to the demo canopy. The demo was good, mine breaks stuff on opening. I don't like Atair, I see Square-1 doesn't have them listed on the website anymore.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.