millertime24 8 #1 October 30, 2008 I literally JUST purchased a brand new Sabre2 190 (only put 1 jump on it) and Im already looking for the canopy I want to buy at the end of the next season.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 October 30, 2008 Depends on what you mean by "end of the next season." If you mean next skydiving season as in maybe a year from now and the canopies you're looking at are say 10% smaller, then I don't see that as being an issue at all. If you mean the next season of the year, as in winter, as in December 21 or thereabouts, then yes, you definitely have a problem. Not so much that you're downsizing too fast, only a local instructor that has been watching you would know that for sure, but rather that you're not getting a good value from your investment. A factory new canopy every few months is a pretty big waste of money.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #3 October 30, 2008 No. I meant this time next year. I was thinking af maybe going with a 170 or even a 150. The Crossfire2 looks quite appealing and I figure Ill be able to get another 100-150 jumps on the one I have between then and now. A Xfire2 150 would put me at a 1.34ish (out the door) WL which is right on the canopy progression track that I should be on (providing I handle this canopy very well throughout the next year). Seems like ever since I put on SSgt Ive been able to start to buy the skydiving things I couldnt afford before then, and its so nice. Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #4 October 30, 2008 Call me old fashioned, but you're changing more than one thing at a time and you want to do it with fairly low numbers to back it up. The Crossfire is going to fly significantly different than the Sabre, to go down TWO sizes is probably a bit much. My suggestion would be to get very comfortable on your current canopy, then beg, borrow or rent a Crossfire of similar size before doing anything rash.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #5 October 30, 2008 Good advice and I do plan to demo demo demo, before I buy again. If I would have demoed the Sabre2 190 I would have bought the 170 straight away. Dont get me wrong it isnt a bad canopy, but I would like something with just a touch more speed and responsiveness.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #6 October 30, 2008 Quote ...A Xfire2 150 would put me at a 1.34ish (out the door) WL which is right on the canopy progression track that I should be on... Why? and Says Who? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #7 October 30, 2008 Ok maybe 1.34 is a bit of a jump but a 170 would put me right at 1.18 which shouldnt be too big of a jump from 1.05. My point is I just bought a BRAND NEW canopy, put all of 1 jump on it (pulled at 6k BTW to "play" with it), and am not as impressed with its performance as I origionally thought I would be. Thats all.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #8 October 30, 2008 Did you demo before you bought it? How are your brake lines set? Before you jumped it did you have a rigger check the trim on the lines? Remember this grasshopper. If you take your time you have all the time in the world to progress. Anyone can fly any canopy at least one time. It is getting to fly it the second time that's the trickDivot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #9 October 30, 2008 Funny you should mention that. I actually hooked it up myself. But in all fairness I'm very good at following directions and 3 different people at the dz (including 2 riggers) checked it out before it was pack and jumped. To answer the other question no I did not demo this canopy first. I can be a bit of a compulsive buyer sometimes. I DID fly a Sabre2 210 and thought "wow I really like the way this thing flares". I had been flying a 210 for some time by then and was actually jumping different varieties of 190's while waiting for delivery of my new canopy. After about 15-20 jumps on 190's (silhouette's, sabre1's, spectres etc.) I started to regret my compulisive buying. Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #10 October 30, 2008 Spend some time on the canopy and don't assume it is as low performance as you think. A good pilot will be able to do quite a bit with a Sabre2 at 1.05. I know it sounds like a boat, but you'd be suprised once you start to improve your skill set. I fly a Stiletto 190 at about the same wingloading. I can fly it a hell of a lot better, and swoop it much farther, than a lot of the newer jumpers with much smaller wings. It's not the canopy, it's the pilot. Use this canopy to help you become that pilot. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #11 October 30, 2008 You know I was inches away from buying a Stilletto 190 but eveyone told me if you dont load the hell out of them they fly like crap, and now I'm hearing this? Ive also been told my many that once you go elliptical you dont go back.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #12 October 30, 2008 >if you dont load the hell out of them they fly like crap . . . You have to load them below about 1.2 to 1 to have them "fly like crap" in my experience. That being said, I think there are better canopies on the market nowadays. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #13 October 30, 2008 QuoteOk maybe 1.34 is a bit of a jump but a 170 would put me right at 1.18 which shouldnt be too big of a jump from 1.05. My point is I just bought a BRAND NEW canopy, put all of 1 jump on it (pulled at 6k BTW to "play" with it), and am not as impressed with its performance as I origionally thought I would be. Thats all. Okay, so I did some math and figure you're out the door right at about 200lbs, give or take a few lbs. So, without knowing what your real jump numbers are... you say you have "1", which cannot be 100% accurate, since I figure you're off student status and have now bought your first set of gear... but anyway, figuring your still sub-100 jumps, a 190 is about right and should be for several hundred more of your jumps. Depending on how often you jump, that could be over a year's time from now, maybe even more than 2. You say you have put a grand total of 1 jump on your new Sabre2 190. You pulled high to check it out. Good job. Wise choice. Can you describe more the conditions you landed it in? Big wide open student landing area? Did you land it into any kind of wind? My points are, are you confident you can land it in a tighter landing area and/or off the DZ? Even 5-10mph of headwind will soften and slowdown a landing as opposed to landing the same canopy on a hot dead calm summer day. I'm not one to go recommend really low-timers go out and "practice" downwind landings, but if you jump long enough, you will, confident you can handle that (or a bunch of crosswind) on your 190? Again, I'd like to pull on this "normal canopy progression" comment you made. Maybe it doesn't sound like its a big deal to you, but there's nothing set in stone that you should downsize to a wingloading of what not... what you should do on every skydive is land safely with a properly functioning parachute over your head and not screw yourself into the ground under a properly functioning parachute. I'm sure mfgr's and dealers like this notion of "there's a normal canopy progression" because it gets newbs to buy new canopies every few hundred jumps / season or two, but where's it written down that you gotta? If you want to jump you're 190 loaded at a bit over 1:1 until its been through a couple of line kits and is getting raged out after several seasons, there's nothing to stop you from doing that besides your own ego getting to you. I think NickDG once said something like, "Safely landing a square canopy is one of the easier parlor tricks out there to do... so why is it some folks screw it up"... I paraphrase heavily, but I think that's kinda how it went. QuoteRemember this grasshopper. If you take your time you have all the time in the world to progress. Word! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #14 October 30, 2008 A sabre 2 is a better canopy than a stiletto: it has the openings of a intermediate canopy, but it dives longer than the stiletto will. If you're looking to swoop, this canopy will help you more than a stiletto would. jump elliptical and go back? I did... Jumped mostly vengeance for a while, with some stilettos thrown in, but went back to safire and fusion, because I like the easygoing openings when I'm cameraflying and certainly for wingsuiting. Wingsuiting is a good reason to "go back" ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #15 October 30, 2008 I've flown Stilettos in every size from 190 at 1.1 to 120 at 1.9 (I was fatter) and they all fly similarly in my opinion. I'm not sure what people mean by "fly like crap". I like the light toggle pressure, soft openings, and flat glide. I dislike the high front riser pressure, fast recovery, and tendancy for off-heading openings. Size doesn't seem to change these characteristics much, IMO. I agree there are more modern canopies on the market, but I still think the Stiletto is one of the best overall canopies out there in terms of versatility. To millertime24, I would not recommend a Stiletto, even a large one, for a novice skydiver (anyone with less than 300+ jumps). I think a lightly tapered canopy like the Sabre2 is a much better choice. You'll learn more and be safer at the same time. In fact, my next canopy will probably be a Sabre2 170 at around 1.2. I've owned a Sabre2 190 in the past, and didn't like the high toggle pressure at the time due to an arm injury. Now that I've got the strength back in my arm, I'll probably go back to the Sabre2. My comments about swooping the Stiletto were not meant to imply that the Stiletto is a better swoop canopy than the Sabre2. I have about 900 jumps on Stilettos and 100 on Sabre2's. Give me another 800 jumps on a Sabre2 and I'll probably be swooping it farther. Again, not the canopy, the pilot. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladydyver 0 #16 October 30, 2008 QuoteOk maybe 1.34 is a bit of a jump but a 170 would put me right at 1.18 which shouldnt be too big of a jump from 1.05. My point is I just bought a BRAND NEW canopy, put all of 1 jump on it (pulled at 6k BTW to "play" with it), and am not as impressed with its performance as I origionally thought I would be. Thats all. Maybe you should consider taking an advanced canopy control course ----- the one I took taught me all sorts of techniques to get good responsiveness out the canopy I was flying. I was at lower jumps so my main focus was setting up landing patterns and some basic techniques.....but the 2nd day they were offering more advanced techniques to learn - I just wasn't ready at that point....this might be an alternative to think about anyway.DPH # 2 "I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~ I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #17 October 30, 2008 A canopy controll course (or even a couple) is definately something I plan on doing. Again folks, I would like to convey that I'm not even going to buy another canopy for another 150 or so jumps. I plan on flying the hell out of what I have (if for nothing else because it cost enough) for quite a while.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladydyver 0 #18 October 30, 2008 Quote A canopy controll course (or even a couple) is definately something I plan on doing. Again folks, I would like to convey that I'm not even going to buy another canopy for another 150 or so jumps. I plan on flying the hell out of what I have (if for nothing else because it cost enough) for quite a while. I only responded as no one had mentioned the canopy course yet --- and thought it was at least a cheaper option....and one that can teach you how to fly the hell out of your canopy.DPH # 2 "I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~ I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
countzero 7 #19 October 30, 2008 Quote Quote A canopy controll course (or even a couple) is definately something I plan on doing. Again folks, I would like to convey that I'm not even going to buy another canopy for another 150 or so jumps. I plan on flying the hell out of what I have (if for nothing else because it cost enough) for quite a while. I only responded as no one had mentioned the canopy course yet --- and thought it was at least a cheaper option....and one that can teach you how to fly the hell out of your canopy. X2 on the canopy course option. i took Germain's course 2 weeks ago and flying my Skymaster 170 loaded at .96 is fun again. i feel that honing my skills on a bigger canopy will be very beneficial for later on when i do decide to downsize.diamonds are a dawgs best friend Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #20 October 30, 2008 Ha! You only got this problem. I'm so light that I can't jump with anyone, they just fall like bombs past me. "Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #21 October 30, 2008 I fractured my back at about 150 jumps and a wing loading of 1.4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jacketsdb23 49 #22 October 30, 2008 I wouldn't jump a xf2 below a WL of 1.4. Look at what the mfg. recommends for that canopy, or any canopy really, before purchasing. You can learn more from a sabre -ish type canopy at that WL. *Disclaimer* - Talk to someone who knows what they hell they are talking about. I'm not the best person in the world to give out canopy advice. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #23 October 31, 2008 QuoteA canopy controll course (or even a couple) is definately something I plan on doing. Again folks, I would like to convey that I'm not even going to buy another canopy for another 150 or so jumps. I plan on flying the hell out of what I have (if for nothing else because it cost enough) for quite a while. So do your 150 jumps and see if you got a problem or not. If end of the season means winter, start looking for the deals in the classifieds or from the manufacturers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blink 1 #24 October 31, 2008 OP, So just out of curiosity, why don't you post your actual jump numbers in your profile? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #25 October 31, 2008 QuoteOP, So just out of curiosity, why don't you post your actual jump numbers in your profile? Without trying to sound like a dick here, my jump numbers are my own buisness and honestly I could fill out my profile to say anything I wanted to so whats the point? I think people put too much stock into profiles on this website. I prefere to talk about the subject at hand without someone going ape shit about jump numbers they THINK you have.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
