quade 4 #26 March 23, 2009 QuoteIn that situation, I would probably prefer to take my chances with my parachute, rather than stay with that crippled plane. Yes, but we're still talking about a miniscule chance of a chance that has never happened. Remember it's not just that the aircraft has an in-flight issue, but that there is a skydiver on board AND he's brought his rig with him in the cabin. Seriously, how often do skydivers as a whole travel with their rigs on-board? I'm not talking about some globe trotting skydiver like Lugi Cani, but if you took all of the flights on commercial airliners made with skydivers aboard and counted the times they brought a rig with them, what would that odds on that turn out to be? My guess it's less than one in a thousand.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #27 March 23, 2009 Quote Approx. 200 kt (230 mph). That's pretty slowed down and in control for a crashing A/C. I can't imagine a scenario in which they'd have to bail but it would be that in-control. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #28 March 23, 2009 I think if you read the actual procedure you'll find the window of opportunity is extremely narrow. It's mostly there for publicity reasons. http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/reference/shutref/escape/inflight.html I'm not exactly certain why their procedure calls for 12 seconds of exit separation and it taking a total of 90 seconds for the entire crew. Seems like a waste of time.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #29 March 23, 2009 So you have never traveled on a commercial flight and taken your gear bag as a carry on? Just asking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tetra316 0 #30 March 23, 2009 Quote Seriously, how often do skydivers as a whole travel with their rigs on-board? About 90% of the skydivers I know carry on their rigs instead of checking it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #31 March 23, 2009 QuoteSo you have never traveled on a commercial flight and taken your gear bag as a carry on? Just asking. Out of the hundreds of flights I've taken since I became a skydiver, no. This includes trips I've taken to Nationals for skydiving competitions. Why? Because I did so with two rigs and a camera helmet. While there was a risk of losing the rigs, the camera helmet was actually the reason for the trip and IT was the thing that needed to be protected via carry on. You can beg or borrow a rig at Nationals, but finding another camera helmet is going to be an issue.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #32 March 23, 2009 QuoteAbout 90% of the skydivers I know carry on their rigs instead of checking it. Yes, but I seriously doubt that any of your friends ALWAYS travels with a rig. My guess is that they ONLY take a rig with them on an aircraft when they're going to a skydiving location.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 38 #33 March 23, 2009 The only time I know of that came close was Steve Morrell. He always carried his rig on the plane with him, and the only reason he missed the Pan Am flight which exploded over Lockerby was that he was injured in a base jump. He always speculated about that because that plane split up in flight... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 14 #34 March 23, 2009 Quote That's pretty slowed down and in control for a crashing A/C. I can't imagine a scenario in which they'd have to bail but it would be that in-control. The only real scenario is one in which they can't make it to a runway. Analysis has shown that open water ditching or off-runway landing are both unsurvivable. So if there is a reentry problem that leaves them out of gliding range of a good runway, then they trim it to 200 kts. and yell, "Door". Kevin k._____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #35 March 23, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteIn over 100 years of aviation has this scenario ever actually happened? Pretty sure the answer is no. The opportunity has presented itself, had a skydiver been on board: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Flight_243 http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/publications/tp185/2-07/Images/Maintenance1.jpg In that situation, I would probably prefer to take my chances with my parachute, rather than stay with that crippled plane. I remember al the good tasteless jokes after that Aloha accident: Would you like smoking or non-smoking? Patio seating? Large gaping hole or no large gaping hole? To a nearby passenger, "Could you sign my logbook now, just in case you don't make it ?" To the flight attendant, "Could you tell the pilot to give me 5 left?" Also - whenever I fly with my rig, it goes in the overhead, in my gearbag. However, the chances of getting it out of the overhead and put on are slim. In the little puddle jumpers, where I put my gear under the seat ahead,... maybe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,466 #36 March 23, 2009 Hi John, You might want to have reconsidered that thought. I believe that aircraft was out over the Pacific when the roof left. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #37 March 24, 2009 QuoteThe only time I know of that came close was Steve Morrell. He always carried his rig on the plane with him, and the only reason he missed the Pan Am flight which exploded over Lockerby was that he was injured in a base jump. He always speculated about that because that plane split up in flight... He could get a rig on as fast as me, and he guessed that he had a chance - given that the part of the aircraft for which he was ticketed remained intact until impact. The best example of survivability that comes to mind is military aircraft that were disassembled in flight due to enemy activity. The bulk of the thousands of bombers manufactured by the US during the early 1940s were used as targets by our adversaries, and very few survived the war. IIRC, if your aircraft came apart as severely as did Pan Am 103, you were likely screwed, parachute or no. Just getting out of the wildly spinning wreckage with sufficient consciousness to yank silver was typically not possible. I did have a Flight Attendant tell me that if the aircraft was compromised severely enough that the cabin was depressurized, and the door could thus be opened by 10,000 ft. or thereabouts, I was welcome to go for help. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #38 March 24, 2009 QuoteYou might want to have reconsidered that thought. I believe that aircraft was out over the Pacific when the roof left. That's true. But if the plane is breaking up, I'll take my chances in the water down below rather than die in the aircraft crash. And at some point, it was over land in order to come in for a landing, and it was highly questionable whether it would hold together for the landing. So again, a bailout would probably have looked like a pretty good option, over a fiery death in a crash landing. But I agree that it's a big judgment call. In the case of this aircraft, you could bail out thinking you'll be the only survivor. When in fact, the way it turned out, you could have been lost at sea, while everyone else survived (except the one that blew out the hole). Tough call, indeed - you're literally betting your life on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #39 March 24, 2009 QuoteQuoteBTW what's the exit speed limit for the space shuttle escape pole? Approx. 200 kt (230 mph). http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/technology/sts-newsref/sts_egress.html Kevin K. The solution to tail strikes! "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
