Skyhook Vs RSL

[RossDagley 0]

Excuse the n00b question - can someone explain the difference between a skyhook and a RSL for me? I've googled and searched, but cant seem to get a clear picture.

I understand the RSL as pulling the reserve pin on cutaway via a cord attached between a riser and the reserve pin (correct me if I'm wrong), but how does a skyhook work?

Thanks

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[IanHarrop 43]

See this

http://www.relativeworkshop.com/pdt_skyhook.html

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[RossDagley 0]

thanks for that. Perfect explanation.

Now a question thats probably gonna cause grief

Why would you NOT use one? Ie, that seems to solve a lot of problems - does it introduce any problems too?

Ie, I've just ordered my first rig (Icon/Pilot/Smart) - should I (or could I) have specified a skyhook? I appreciate as most things its down to personal preference, but I'm not experienced enough to have that preference yet, so I'm trying to get some ideas from you guys!)

[IanHarrop 43]

One answer - Not available for a wide variety of rigs.

I'll there are more opinions on this...

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[egons 0]

Unfortunately it is only availible on Relative Workshop systems currently - this however will more than likely change in time!
Aerodyne certainly can help you with an RSL though - check with Aubrey as he may still be able to get this included on your order if it is not yet complete!
Enjoy your new Rig - its always a great feeling getting your first brand new custom rig

Cheers

"Start doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you're doing the impossible!"

[RossDagley 0]

Okay, thanks
I did specify a RSL on the Icon, based on the fact I don't know how I'm going to react under the countless different situations because I dont have the experience TO know how I'll react. I have no intention of relying on the RSL, cypres or any other safety device I intend to get (dytter etc) but equally I want as many backups as I can possibly get - until I've got the knowledge and experience to be able to decide what I can live without (literially).

I like the skyhooks ability to cut both left and right risers - my main concern with the 'normal' RSL is it only cutting the lanyard side risers, and still firing the reserve into the mal above me. But I'm going a bit off topic

[mr2mk1g 10]

Quote

like the skyhooks ability to cut both left and right risers - my main concern with the 'normal' RSL is it only cutting the lanyard side risers, and still firing the reserve into the mal above me. But I'm going a bit off topic

Sounds like you've got a bit mixed up about how an RSL/skyhook works.

Neither cut away for you - you do that using the normal procedure.

Once you cutaway the RSL deplys the reserve. This is essentially the same for the skyhook.

What you're reading about things happening on both risers is the Collins lanyard - this is something the skyhook happens to come with but you may also find on rigs without the skyhook.

[RossDagley 0]

Sorry - poor choice of words on my part. I understand nothing other than me is going to perform the physical cutaway, but I meant immediately after that, when the risers are released I dont want to end up with only the lanyard side becoming detached (ie, I haven't pulled the cutaway properly or something).

I guess I need to read up on the Collins lanyard then

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[egons 0]

The situation you are talking about is very rare now with Type 17 mini ring - riser breaks! The Collins Lanyard played a very important role in our Tandem Systems with Riser Breaks. However with the Skyhook it is critical that you have this Collins Lanyard...
Keeping in mind should you have such a hard opening that it breaks your riser - this is a good thing as you will do less damage to your MLW. The risers are designed to fail...
Good on you for at least taking the RSL - you will thank the system one day when the shit hits the fan...

"Start doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you're doing the impossible!"

[klafollette 0]

Go to the incidents section, and read where this very scenerio played out at Spaceland earlier this month, just not with an RSL. Person cut-away but didn't completely clear the cables, had one riser still attached and then pulled the reserve, resulting an entanglement.

[egons 0]

so which other rigs have a Collins Lanyard?

"Start doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you're doing the impossible!"

[mr2mk1g 10]

sigma tandem?
is it an option on the vector sport rig?

[egons 0]

This is a perfect scenario where the Skyhook will perform better over the traditional RSL found on other rigs...

"Start doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you're doing the impossible!"

[egons 0]

you got me
any other manufactured rigs other than RWS equipment?

Smart ass

"Start doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you're doing the impossible!"

[billvon 3,120]

>Why would you NOT use one?

It's more complex and can fail in new ways. It adds a few unusual packing steps and can be misrigged.

[RossDagley 0]

Quote

>Why would you NOT use one?

It's more complex and can fail in new ways. It adds a few unusual packing steps and can be misrigged.

Yeah, I saw that (dont fancy a total reserve closure myself...), however, if it fails (bad rigging and packing excepted) would one be any worse off for having it? I can't see how you could be worse off - but then again, I know naff all, so please enlighten me if there is!

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[billvon 3,120]

>if it fails (bad rigging and packing excepted) would one be any worse off for having it?

If it snagged and did not release the reserve PC - you might well be worse off. As there's no way to predict how creative bad riggers can be, it's hard to say how likely that is. It's certainly unlikely if you follow the manual.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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any other manufactured rigs other than RWS equipment?

I've seen them retrofitted to club gear. Think they were chute shop rigs. But I'm guessing that in the spirit of the question they ought to be outa the fatory right.

Does not Jump Shack claim their two riser rsl acts as/negates the need for, a colins lanyard? (however debatable).

Other than that I'm guessing there aren't any other than RWS rigs... hence the question.

I never said RWS didn't have some great pieces of kit.

[egons 0]

...and are riggers not required to pack with a manual on hand? I hardly see this being the Skyhooks fault?

"Start doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you're doing the impossible!"

[egons 0]

...I highly doubt your club was given the ok from Chris Dales of Parachute Systems (Chute Shop)... if I may ask what kind of retrofit did they do - put a split housing in or attach a Dacron lanyard to the break away handle - I am for sure that all manufacturers know this is a patent violation

As for Jump Shack - through my own ignorance I cannot comment on this as I have not looked very closely at the rig with this setup!

So - would you own a system with a Skyhook

"Start doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you're doing the impossible!"

[billvon 3,120]

> ...and are riggers not required to pack with a manual on hand? I hardly
> see this being the Skyhooks fault?

I didn't say it was the Skyhook's fault. The skyhook, like anything else in a rig, can be misrigged. Since it is an additional piece of hardware not present in most other rigs, it adds to the odds that an incompetent rigger will misrig something on a rig so equipped.

[egons 0]

I hear you

I think if you look closely now how we ship skyhook equipped rigs - you will see all the instructions in paper manuals, cd's and even inside the rig on labels and the hook itself is even labeled - gosh we are trying to make this as idiot proof as humanly possible for the riggers. To me it is no different to adding a AAD to your equipment... you can also misroute this or have incorrect lengths in reserve loops!
There are a number of ways riggers can make mistakes, but as a manufacturer we are trying to eliminate any doubt as to how it gets installed in the pack job. Riggers who are serious about rigging have taken the time to download all the information on the Skyhook and even phone us with questions... if you are a rigger and you are unsure about what you are doing or how you have rigged the reserve pack job - stop and get the answers!

"Start doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you're doing the impossible!"

[mr2mk1g 10]

I highly doubt it too. Not my home DZ, not overly enamored by the stories I hear of their rigging in general. Still not my place though to drop anyone in the proverbial though.

Sure I'd own a system with a skyhook. It’s a sweet piece of kit for which I have nothing but respect.

[billvon 3,120]

>I think if you look closely now how we ship skyhook equipped rigs - you
> will see all the instructions in paper manuals, cd's and even inside the rig
> on labels and the hook itself is even labeled - gosh we are trying to
> make this as idiot proof as humanly possible for the riggers.

I agree, and the instructions are indeed very clear. I think that most riggers will have no problems, and on the balance the added benefit of the skyhook far outweighs the risks that someone will mispack it.

>To me it is no different to adding a AAD to your equipment... you can
>also misroute this or have incorrect lengths in reserve loops!

Yep, and this has been done. Even dumber things have been done, like the periodic molar strap left in a reserve. Fortunately they are the exception.