npgraphicdesign 3 #1 June 23, 2009 ...even if your leg straps and your chest strap are fastened? What are the actual chances of your container actually coming apart at the seams, ripping, etc. for whatever reason? (I know that's when gear checks are useful, checking for rips, tears, etc.) Although I'm still at beginner status with 40 jumps, I have faith that if I'm ever faced with a critical situation, I will use every ounce of my training and abilities to try to fix it. The only part that really freaks me out about skydiving is falling out of your harness, because then you're truly 100% screwed. So, how likely is it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #2 June 23, 2009 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3298630 Lots of discussion here of how it might happen even without container damage."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #3 June 23, 2009 I don't know but look at the stats.... How many skydives have ever been done? .... Now, how many people have come out of their harnesses... accidentally? ..... There's the start of the maths for your odds...... 2 tenths of fuck all, I'd say. I'm waaay more concerned about some clown running into me!! Those odds are somewhat shorter.... Keep you head on a swivel. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMiller 1 #4 June 23, 2009 Quote ...even if your leg straps and your chest strap are fastened? What are the actual chances of your container actually coming apart at the seams, ripping, etc. for whatever reason? Although I'm still at beginner status with 40 jumps, I have faith that if I'm ever faced with a critical situation, I will use every ounce of my training and abilities to try to fix it. The only part that really freaks me out about skydiving is falling out of your harness, because then you're truly 100% screwed. So, how likely is it? Unless it is damaged, I don't think there is much of a chance of the harness itself ripping apart. One thing to be aware of is the "hole" in the back of your harness, between the bottom of the container and the leg straps. The smaller your container, the bigger the hole. Normally this isn't a problem but if you are in a sit position and deploy (or have a premature deployment), and your leg straps are loose, you may fall through the hole. NWFlyer's link to the thread is a pretty good read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pontiacgtp00 0 #5 June 23, 2009 Standing up, I can slip my rig off my shoulders then slide it down off...but laying down in an arch makes it much more difficult. As long as the rig you're jumping isn't way too big for you, there isn't much to worry about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #6 June 23, 2009 http://makeithappen.com/spsj/fallout.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #7 June 24, 2009 Tangental but related: At least one, and possibly two, tandem students fell out of harness. They fell out the bottom back (as described above). Recent death of a wingsuit jumper who failed to put legs through leg straps when donning suit. Suit covers leg straps, so problem was not obvious to anyone. As I understand the above cases, ALL involved improper donning/adjustment by the parachutist in command. Lesson to be learned.... the most important factor is YOUR BEHAVIOR.The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuckyMcSwervy 0 #8 June 24, 2009 Quote Tangental but related: At least one, and possibly two, tandem students fell out of harness. They fell out the bottom back (as described above). Recent death of a wingsuit jumper who failed to put legs through leg straps when donning suit. Suit covers leg straps, so problem was not obvious to anyone. As I understand the above cases, ALL involved improper donning/adjustment by the parachutist in command. Lesson to be learned.... the most important factor is YOUR BEHAVIOR. And Dan would've been 23 years old this Friday. Always be kinder than you feel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #9 June 24, 2009 Just to show how things sometimes go full circle... Back when the gear was made from wood...the legstraps were connected by a length of webbing, then everybody went to the 'split saddle' because it was better. Then they added a bungee cord to make it even MORE BETTER...like it was before. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #10 June 24, 2009 next thing we know he'll tell us parachute were made from SILK.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #11 June 24, 2009 Trying to find a simple answer for the original poster's question, what are the chances of falling out of one's harness? Really they are pretty much nil, and it just about never happens. Even a lot of gear that doesn't fit well or is left on loosely works in practice. It has to be really out of whack to cause a problem normally. There are a just a couple very basic things you have to do to avoid falling out: a) You do have to put on the harness properly. A few people have fallen out if the chest strap is undone or done up entirely wrong. (But plenty more have survived the same thing) Very simple to avoid. b) You don't have loose and ill fitting equipment AND get in a position where one is sliding out 'the hole' butt first, completely dearched, AND then deploy the parachute. A lot of things have to go wrong at the same time. ('The hole' is a concern but not a day to day issue. One might get someone with the leg straps to their knees in a sitfly with a very ill fit harness but they and they should realize that quickly and not keep doing that until the issue is resolved). As for the harness breaking, that is very very rare. It isn't impossible, but is in the category of being struck by lightning. All sorts of old and beat up gear works in practice, without harness failures. (Harness failures won't necessarily eject someone from the harness but they'll be just as dead.) Yes there are all sorts of other gear related things that can go wrong, but generally the harness strength is not an issue. ============ So as a question to others, when have people actually fallen out of their harness? - There were the couple tandem students with special circumstances and/or very poorly adjusted harnesses. - There have been a few people over the years who didn't do up their chest strap correctly. - There was the wingsuiter who wasn't fully in his harness. - There was someone in Italy with some odd issue with a broken chest strap on opening. When has anyone else actually fallen back out of the hole? And broken harnesses? When have they actually broken? There were the one or two (?) Jav adjustable MLW failures. I can't recall what else there has been in say the last 30 years of gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #12 June 24, 2009 Quote Just to show how things sometimes go full circle... Back when the gear was made from wood...the legstraps were connected by a length of webbing, then everybody went to the 'split saddle' because it was better. Then they added a bungee cord to make it even MORE BETTER...like it was before. Funny how that works, hm? Hey! I've developed a radical new safety feature in my garage workshop. I call it a "belly band". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #13 June 24, 2009 First, with all the crap we used to jump, all the old harnesses still being jumped, and the reality that we cann't tell if a harness is weakened without distroying it, the two Javelins were the first time I heard of a harness (not including risers) with working hardware and doned correctly actually failing during a skydive. It just was never a concern. Now? Still not so much. But changes in webbing, changes in canopies, changes in freefall speeds have all made it slightly more likely.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,109 #14 June 24, 2009 >So, how likely is it? If your harness fits at all well, it is very, very unlikely. Activities like sitflying in an ill fitting harness can increase the odds. Worst case is probably a premature reserve deployment while sitflying in a too-big harness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #15 June 24, 2009 Quote - There was someone in Italy with some odd issue with a broken chest strap on opening. When has anyone else actually fallen back out of the hole? And broken harnesses? When have they actually broken? On a personal note: About 20 years ago I waited all morning at the rigger's to get my brand new gear put together and rushed out to make the jump on it. The main was a brand new crossed braced which I probably didn't pack right because the opening was quite a spanker...on the way down the new rig didn't feel right and only upon landing, did I realize that the hard opening in conjunction with razor sharp friction hardware on the chest strap had sliced through the webbing like a hot knife through butter. That one was a manufacturing quality control issue. As it's been said, using the gear as intended is also crucial... a few years ago, a VERY experienced demo jumper on the left coast was gearing up at the DZ to do a demo off site, as he was hanging a large heavy flag from his chest strap using carabiner clips. I looked closely at the webbing...it was obvious that stitching integrity had been compromised @ the the MLW/Chest strap point. I'm sure that sub-terminal everything would be fine as the demo jumper stated...but I wouldn't have jumped it! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #16 June 24, 2009 Manufacturing & design defects, yeah that's another super rare but not impossible issue. I've heard of a MLW/ring junction not being stitched behind the cover (found before it wasn't jumped); that very poorly designed Ukrainian (?) rig coming apart on reserve opening; and way way back the poor Green Star Express design (combined with some incautious users.) Quote About 20 years ago I waited all morning at the rigger's to get my brand new gear put together and rushed out to make the jump on it. The main was a brand new crossed braced which I 20 years ago?? That's bullsh...... oh, wait, Excalibur. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #17 June 24, 2009 Quote The main was a brand new crossed braced which I probably didn't pack right because the opening was quite a spanker... Excalibur, eh?"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #18 June 24, 2009 Now is a good time to try to get out of your harness on your own. Put it on, normal tightness, lay down and try to get out of it without loosening anything. Now picture having to do that in or under water.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
npgraphicdesign 3 #19 June 24, 2009 Quote Now is a good time to try to get out of your harness on your own. Put it on, normal tightness, lay down and try to get out of it without loosening anything. Now picture having to do that in or under water. Good idea Now, regarding the second part of your advice, why not just put on my rig and jump in a pool for several minutes...what's the worst that could happen? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #20 June 25, 2009 I'll hold your beer.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #21 June 25, 2009 Quote Quote The main was a brand new crossed braced which I probably didn't pack right because the opening was quite a spanker... Excalibur, eh? Yup...I still have three of 'em. One has only been jumped 3 or 4 times. Ever try to teach yourself how to PRO pack from a few pages out of a faxed manual?! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #22 June 25, 2009 Years ago, Vskydiver was on the ground practicing freestyle moves with her rig on. She did a pike, touching her toes. I gave a little tug and her rig slid off her back and to the floor. In all fairness, it certainly wasn't the custom Infinity she has now. There is a hole in the back of the harness. I, for one, kind of miss the old saddle strap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
