airtwardo 7 #1 April 24, 2005 I'm a bit reluctant to post anything on this, but in the interest of safety and learning... I wanted to jump an event recently and my personal rigs were out for maintenance. I called a friend to borrow one of his, which wasn't going to work out...but he called a friend and got me set up. I rigged one of my mains in it, and did some stuff to insure fit & function. Something didn't feel right...so with minor investigation, it's seems the reserve was a few years out of date...though not on the packing card. I appreciate the effort to assit me, especially considering I don't know the 'lender' well... I have no doubt that he had nothing but the best of intentions...for the short term. But don't ever do that... Imagine the consequence if something bad had happened! To him & ME! Let's watch out for each other! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #2 April 24, 2005 Years, huh? Actually, isn't it the pilot that would get into the most trouble? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #3 April 24, 2005 QuoteActually, isn't it the pilot that would get into the most trouble? If the card is in date, but forged, the FAA would probably never know. If an actual rigger signed it off, then the rigger could be held responsible, if the FAA ever found out. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #4 April 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteActually, isn't it the pilot that would get into the most trouble? If the card is in date, but forged, the FAA would probably never know. If an actual rigger signed it off, then the rigger could be held responsible, if the FAA ever found out. Derek *** It wasn't (Re)signed by a rigger... And, I'm no lawyer...but something tells me if you were to forge a sig, and something bad were to happen to someone else...you could be libel. Like a car dealer here recently 'okayed' work on a vehicle that wasn't really done and a serious injury resulted. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutem 0 #5 April 24, 2005 Stupid "newbie" question, How were you able to determine when the reserve was packed if the card was forged? Is there something to look for on the rig? Or did you check with the rigger who's "signature" was on the card? James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #6 April 24, 2005 QuoteStupid "newbie" question, How were you able to determine when the reserve was packed if the card was forged? Is there something to look for on the rig? Or did you check with the rigger who's "signature" was on the card? James *** The spider web on the silver handle?! But seriously- Good question, glad I'm sparking some thought. The lender has a couple of newer / better rigs he uses, didn't seem logical he would travel 1500 miles to get an I & R on a rig he doesn't use. I know the person who's seal is on the rig quite well so I gave them a call to inquire. But even if it was a local riggers seal on it...I would wonder why 'suddenly' it was serviced after almost 4 years in a closet somewhere. If something / ANYTHING doesn't seem right, check things out... In the end, your safety is your own responsibility. edited to add: No such thing as a 'stupid' question in this forum. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avion 0 #7 April 24, 2005 Hmm, you always have to keep on your toes. Thanks for the reminder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutem 0 #8 April 24, 2005 Did this person think they were doing you a favor lending you an out of date packed rig forged to be current? Thanks for shareing this, I guess you have to remember only you can be trusted to look out for your best interest. James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #9 April 24, 2005 QuoteYears, huh? Actually, isn't it the pilot that would get into the most trouble? I would rather be in trouble then dead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwampThing 0 #10 April 24, 2005 QuoteI have no doubt that he had nothing but the best of intentions... Quote I wonder about that. Question: Would it have been better if he would have told you it was out of date? The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!" The Optimist says: "Sure it can!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #11 April 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteI have no doubt that he had nothing but the best of intentions... Quote I wonder about that. Question: Would it have been better if he would have told you it was out of date? In a word..YES It's about risk evaluation, how can you made a decision without true information? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #12 April 24, 2005 Quote Imagine the consequence if something bad had happened! To him & ME! Let's watch out for each other! Or, to put it another way: "Neither a borrower nor a lender be; For loan oft loses both itself and friend" Polonius, in Hamlet (Shakespeare).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #13 April 24, 2005 Friends...Romans...Countrymen, LEND me your ears! Guess I shouldn't have looked a gift horse in the mouth! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman32 0 #14 April 24, 2005 Another newbie question -- I see it here all the time, people asking to borrow each other's gear. Why not rent the gear instead of borrowing? Besides the money, is there another reason why you would choose to borrow instead of renting? Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #15 April 25, 2005 QuoteAnother newbie question -- I see it here all the time, people asking to borrow each other's gear. Why not rent the gear instead of borrowing? Besides the money, is there another reason why you would choose to borrow instead of renting? *** Money actually isn't a consideration... To an extent TYPE of gear is- The friend I originally asked, uses very similar gear to mine... and I needed to specifically rig it, as the event I wanted to participate in required it. When you rent gear...it usually doesn't leave the DZ, and that wouldn't work for me. I both lend and borrow gear now & then, if a friend needs a flag & a red white & blue canopy, I'm happy to help. My point is, loaning something you know isn't up to par, isn't a good thing and should be discouraged. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #16 April 25, 2005 Good catch my friend. If something doesn't feel right, it usually isn't. Borrowing gear is not like borrowing a White Sports Coat to go to the Prom.SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #17 April 25, 2005 QuoteAnother newbie question -- I see it here all the time, people asking to borrow each other's gear. Why not rent the gear instead of borrowing? Besides the money, is there another reason why you would choose to borrow instead of renting? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Renting works great at big DZs like Cross Keys or DeLand, but there are no parachutes for rent "back in the hills," ... er ... at smaller DZs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #18 April 25, 2005 QuoteStupid "newbie" question, How were you able to determine when the reserve was packed if the card was forged? Is there something to look for on the rig? Or did you check with the rigger who's "signature" was on the card? James >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ... by the corroded lead seal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #19 April 26, 2005 QuoteQuoteStupid "newbie" question, How were you able to determine when the reserve was packed if the card was forged? Is there something to look for on the rig? Or did you check with the rigger who's "signature" was on the card? James >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ... by the corroded lead seal. Lead corrodes?? I figured if something didn't look right, you just call the rigger who last repacked as the packing card indicated, and see if his/her packing logbook shows the same date as seen on the packing card... Am I right?"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwampThing 0 #20 April 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteStupid "newbie" question, How were you able to determine when the reserve was packed if the card was forged? Is there something to look for on the rig? Or did you check with the rigger who's "signature" was on the card? James >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ... by the corroded lead seal. Lead corrodes?? I figured if something didn't look right, you just call the rigger who last repacked as the packing card indicated, and see if his/her packing logbook shows the same date as seen on the packing card... Am I right? *** Ever see Fandango?! The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!" The Optimist says: "Sure it can!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 14 #21 April 29, 2005 There was a recent incident in GA in which a tandem reserve was deployed following a cutaway and after an unevetful landing, the reserve connector links fell apart because of missing screws. The tandem instructor had borrowed the rig to make the jump. Kevin K._____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #22 April 29, 2005 QuoteThere was a recent incident in GA in which a tandem reserve was deployed following a cutaway and after an unevetful landing, the reserve connector links fell apart because of missing screws. The tandem instructor had borrowed the rig to make the jump. Kevin K. *** I've read the story on that one... This, I think is a seperate issue with nothing to do with a rigger..... ...Borrowed rig though! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #23 April 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteThere was a recent incident in GA in which a tandem reserve was deployed following a cutaway and after an unevetful landing, the reserve connector links fell apart because of missing screws. The tandem instructor had borrowed the rig to make the jump. Kevin K. *** I've read the story on that one... This, I think is a seperate issue with nothing to do with a rigger..... ...Borrowed rig though! That's scary. And I think it has everything to do with a rigger, one who f-d up doing his job correctly. It has nothing to do with borrowing or being out of date. I'd much rather jump a properly stored, out of date reserve packed correctly than an in date reserve packed by a sloppy rigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #24 April 29, 2005 This, I think is a seperate issue with nothing to do with a rigger..... ...Borrowed rig though! ---------------------------------------------------------------- That's scary. And I think it has everything to do with a rigger, one who f-d up doing his job correctly. It has nothing to do with borrowing or being out of date. I'd much rather jump a properly stored, out of date reserve packed correctly than an in date reserve packed by a sloppy rigger. ----------------------------------------------------------------- *** To clarify~ I agree the tandem incident is of an infinitely more serious nature. But that thread has been discussed thoroughly. In MY instance the rigger was not a factor, but instead a fellow jumper that 'updated' a 3 1/2 year old pack job. And I agree John...I might not have an issue with a reserve out of date for a short time....but YEARS is another issue. I don't have any idea what conditions it was stored in. The guy that owned the rig might not have reservations jumping it out of date like that. But I do...and I think I should have been told. As I said, I loan out gear frequently and would never pass along something I ddin't KNOW was legal and working 100%. But as Doc. K mentioned...Borrower Beware. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
