GaryRay 0 #1 August 2, 2009 so i got a friend training in a different state than i am in at a small cessna DZ, when i jumped there everything seemed fine but as he is telling me stuff and asking me questions i feel like he is not getting the proper training he should be and feel that the DZ is not going by the SIM for a new student doing SLP. just curious who i can bring the issue up with, i already recommended him go to a different DZ but the cost is what is keeping him there. any recommendations for him?JewBag. www.jewbag.wordpress.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #2 August 2, 2009 No two training programs are the same. The prgression in the SIM is a recommendation. There are as many variations as there are dropzones. Do you believe there is a SAFETY issue? If not probably good to go. You can talk with the S&TA and ask why there is a difference in a curious mode. You can ask the Regional director if there is an issue. You can tell us what region of the country they're in and maybe someone has direct knowledge. If it is a SAFETY issue, dollars don't matter. But I kind of doubt it.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #3 August 2, 2009 Quoteso i got a friend training in a different state than i am in at a small cessna DZ, when i jumped there everything seemed fine but as he is telling me stuff and asking me questions i feel like he is not getting the proper training he should be and feel that the DZ is not going by the SIM for a new student doing SLP. Tell us specifically what you think they are doing wrong. Then we can address it. You don't have to identify the DZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GaryRay 0 #4 August 3, 2009 from the questions he has asked and me asking specifically if they are doing this... 1) not explaining a landing pattern. 2) not teaching to not turn below x feet 3) teaching him to twist his body to make a left or right turn during freefall (not safety but weird) 4) not teaching Emergency procedures thoroughly. thats all i can think of right now, the last one i know is dependent on the person but i also know he picks up EP's quickly b/c we flew together on helicopters and i was the one teaching him. ive jumped at the DZ and its good peeps, i just think that its not the greatest of places to learn.JewBag. www.jewbag.wordpress.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strop45 0 #5 August 3, 2009 Quote teaching him to twist his body to make a left or right turn during freefall (not safety but weird) Damn, sounds like I had the same instructor. I was taught to turn by twisting my shoulders relative to my hips and think that's probably still the way I do it? What should I be doing?The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GaryRay 0 #6 August 3, 2009 http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/JumpStart/aff5.html it says it in the first parts of it, this is the only way i have seen turning taught except for at that drop zone, in the US anyways... to turn just "bank" your arms like an airplane wing...JewBag. www.jewbag.wordpress.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #7 August 3, 2009 Sounds like legit issues to be concerned about, although I'm not passing judgment. But you're experienced enough to do so. I'll say this: although I don't have an "I" rating, if I felt strongly that a friend of mine was not safe enough making his student jumps at Dropzone X, I'd probably explain it to him in detail, and then either (a) urge him (and assist him) to find another DZ to complete his training, and/or (b) try to hook him up with a better instructor, and/or (c) try to coach him myself to compensate for the deficiencies. (With "(c)", you have to decide whether you think it's best to "undermine a student's instructor".) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #8 August 3, 2009 Quotefrom the questions he has asked and me asking specifically if they are doing this... 1) not explaining a landing pattern. 2) not teaching to not turn below x feet 3) teaching him to twist his body to make a left or right turn during freefall (not safety but weird) 4) not teaching Emergency procedures thoroughly. 1) I don't know how anyone can get around teaching this...it's so basic to skydiving. You can help him with that without obstructing his instructors. 2) If you are saying "not turn AT ALL below X feet" then that presents a problem at most DZs....those out in the middle of nowhere with nothing but farm land around is one thing but we know what would happen when the young jumper goes to some other DZ. Trees and buildings will be shuddering in fear. I would tell him to ask his instructors to teach him low-altitude avoidance maneuvers...it's part of his training progression, or should be, anyway. Asking his instructor would not interfere with his training progression. 3) I'm going to assume that by, "twist his body" you mean bending his spine to the left or right. I think what was mentioned earlier was a technique that twists the spine rather than bends it. There's more than one way to skin a cat. I would not be concerned with this either way. He's going to learn more advanced techniques as he goes along anyway. I would not disrupt his training for this. 4) "Thoroughly" is quite subjective. You'll need to be more specific with that.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GaryRay 0 #9 August 3, 2009 QuoteQuotefrom the questions he has asked and me asking specifically if they are doing this... 1) not explaining a landing pattern. 2) not teaching to not turn below x feet 3) teaching him to twist his body to make a left or right turn during freefall (not safety but weird) 4) not teaching Emergency procedures thoroughly. 1) I don't know how anyone can get around teaching this...it's so basic to skydiving. You can help him with that without obstructing his instructors. 2) If you are saying "not turn AT ALL below X feet" then that presents a problem at most DZs....those out in the middle of nowhere with nothing but farm land around is one thing but we know what would happen when the young jumper goes to some other DZ. Trees and buildings will be shuddering in fear. I would tell him to ask his instructors to teach him low-altitude avoidance maneuvers...it's part of his training progression, or should be, anyway. Asking his instructor would not interfere with his training progression. 3) I'm going to assume that by, "twist his body" you mean bending his spine to the left or right. I think what was mentioned earlier was a technique that twists the spine rather than bends it. There's more than one way to skin a cat. I would not be concerned with this either way. He's going to learn more advanced techniques as he goes along anyway. I would not disrupt his training for this. 4) "Thoroughly" is quite subjective. You'll need to be more specific with that. replies: 1) ive gone over everything including low object avoidances the best that i can over the phone. im in california he is in the midwest. his reply was that he never heard any of that 2) not saying not to turn below x feet, but he only got a speaking to when he was at 100' and did a 90deg turn with full toggle. 3) its a non-issue you are right, just found it weird and something i should mention 4) he didnt know what a line-over was. i even tried explaining it and he never heard of it in any context. for the sbove poster, i have been urging him to go somewhere else to get better training bc i feel this training is inadequate. i have nothing against the parachute club, great group of people and fun to jump with, but they do lack in certain areas...JewBag. www.jewbag.wordpress.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
