Ron 10 #251 May 2, 2005 QuoteSo you've had a cutaway? Did you continue to jump that same canopy afterward? Would you have if you didn't have a reserve? I have had 6 cutaways. Yes, since it was the packing, not the canopy. I don't jump NOVA's, or Crossfire1's since they had problems due to the canopy design. No, if I didn't have a reserve I would have been dead My Malfunction rate is about 1/600. A little lower than "normal". Quote You do CRW? Will you do CRW without carrying a hook knife? Are you hook knife dependent? Would you do CRW without a reserve (assuming it was legal)? I have done CRW. Yes, I would do it without a hook knife. Yes, if I must take a hook knife I would be hook knife dependant. I most times will not do CRW without a hookknife..So, I would in fact be hook knife dependant..Thing is I don't pretend not to be. Would I do CRW without a reserve? Nope. I would be messing with my LIFE SAVING device. I do not do CRW jumps with the idea that its OK to dock hard and reckless since I have a reserve. You are saying it IS OK to do dumber freefall dives since you have an AAD. QuoteDo you think it's smarter to do 10-way with or without an AAD? Oh I think it is in fact smarter to have an AAD. QuoteWould you do it without one? Yes. QuoteI might be wrong but I bet you think it's smarter to do it with an AAD but it's even smarter not to do it at all. OK so far you have one thought of mine correctly. QuoteAnd I bet you'd do 10-way without an AAD Thats two. QuoteNow if I'm right, why would you do it without an AAD if you know it's smarter to do it with one? Who said I think its smarter to do it without an AAD...Please find me saying that. Lets try this. Answer this question for me...Since you got two right, lets try for three. If I thought a dive was to dangerous to do without an AAD...what would I do if I had an AAD?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #252 May 2, 2005 QuoteOn EVERY jump there are many things that can go wrong, some are adjustable by skill some are not. ... For those that DO NOT vary with skill and are a part of each jump. we have safety gear like reserves, helmets and aads (yes these can also help REDUCE the concequences of a mis hap from the previous catagory) ... BECAUSE the non-variable risks EXIST ON EVERY JUMP I CHOOSE to REDUCE them on every jump by having an AAD What makes you think the risks that can be mitigated by an AAD are non-variable and do not decrease with skill? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #253 May 2, 2005 QuoteUsing an AAD on skydives with a high collision risk is NOT doing riskier skydives BECAUSE you have an AAD. Seriously flawed logic. Somebody comes up to Jumper A and invites them on a sequential 100-way. Jumper A's CYPRES is in the shop so he declines. Two months later, he receives the same invitation, but this time his CYPRES is back in his rig so he accepts. You're saying it's illogical to point out that the only difference in the decision trees that produced such dramatically different outcomes was the presence/lack of a CYPRES? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #254 May 2, 2005 QuoteWe've heard from multiple AFF instructors that choose to use cypreses for AFF. At my DZ, AADs are mandatory for AFF instructors and coaches. Theres a reason for both of those facts. Why are you better suited to doing AFF than one of those instructors? Because you're willing to risk MORE? Your risk tolerance is higher and that means... ummm... hmmm. What does it mean? Here's what we know. You aren't necessarily safer, you aren't necessarily a better instructor, you aren't necessarily more experienced, you aren't necessarily a nicer guy, you aren't necessarily better looking, you aren't necessarily ANY BETER SUITED TO INSTRUCT. You're simply a guy willing to take higher risks. And that's a GOOD thing for an AFF instructor??? You'll have to forgive my possible misinterpretation while trying to read between the lines, but are you insinuating that someone who's willing to do AFF without an AAD is a poorer instructor by reason of his higher risk tolerance? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #255 May 2, 2005 QuoteYou'll have to forgive my possible misinterpretation while trying to read between the lines, but are you insinuating that someone who's willing to do AFF without an AAD is a poorer instructor by reason of his higher risk tolerance? No, I'm saying he's NOT a better instructor. The only difference is that he's willing to take higher risks. He has a higher "risk tolerance." A few people have said that anyone that won't do AFF without an AAD shouldn't do AFF at all. I'm saying that their decision to use an AAD does not make them less qualified instructors. The AAD issue isn't black and white. Some people thing they'd be taking more risk by using an AAD. The basic argument there is that they know if they go low they'll pull their main. That's probably true. Whether or not that makes the AAD more dangerous than no AAD is another story. But, if you have an AFF instructor that believes the AAD has a high benefit on jumps with an increased collision risk (AFF jumps) and he chooses to do AFF without one, what does that say about his judgement? I don't think it makes him any less of an instructor...that's all about air skills and teaching ability, right? Edit: A lot of jumpers don't think they NEED AADs. And of course, nobody NEEDS an AAD until they are knocked out or lose altitude awareness. But some of those people that thought they had the skill to avoid EVER needing an AAD really did need one. And died because they didn't have one. What is wrong with a jumper recognizing he is no better than anyone that came before him and choosing to use an AAD? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #256 May 2, 2005 QuoteBut, if you have an AFF instructor that believes the AAD has a high benefit on jumps with an increased collision risk (AFF jumps) and he chooses to do AFF without one, what does that say about his judgement? I'm not sure, but probably because I'm too close to something similar (well, identical except the "high" benefit part). I do AFF without an AAD. I recognize that the risk of taking a pretty substantial hit is much higher on AFF jumps than on any other type of skydive I do. I decided last fall to go ahead and get an AAD because of this increased risk, and a buddy of mine picked one up for me shortly thereafter. I haven't yet gotten it from him and put in my rig, and I will continue to do AFF between now and whenever I do. Do I fit the bill of this theoretical instructor we're talking about? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #257 May 2, 2005 Sure, why not? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with doing AFF without an AAD. You know the risk. You know that adding an AAD doesn't make it "safe" either. I can't imagine any jump that I'd personally do with an AAD that I wouldn't also do without one. I'm not an AFF instructor and I'm not doing 300 ways. I'd go do my usual small RW jumps with no AAD... a few times. I'd "chance it" that I won't need an AAD on one of those jumps. If I do need one, well, I'd die and that would suck but that's a risk we're all willing to take no matter what equipment we use. I'd just prefer to keep my exposure time without an AAD as low as possible. If I was an AFF instructor or freefly coach or something where the collision risk is much higher than it is for me now, I might feel that no exposure time to jumping without an AAD is reasonable. Who knows. Depends on how much risk of a serious collision there really is. Maybe if my cypres was out, there'd be students I'd refuse to jump with or something. I have no idea. But the fact is, you see benefit in an AAD and you've decided to get one. That sounds like good judgement to me. If you woke up tomorrow and decided you'll stop doing AFF until your AAD arrives, do you think that means you shouldn't do AFF at all? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #258 May 2, 2005 QuoteIf you woke up tomorrow and decided you'll stop doing AFF until your AAD arrives, do you think that means you shouldn't do AFF at all? Perhaps. It's not completely cut & dry with me. For the most part, I'm another one of those guys who basically feels that if you won't make the jump without a CYPRES, the correct response is to not make the jump, not to get a CYRPES. The way I've justified my decision to get a CYPRES for AFF is because I've proven to myself I'm willing to make the jumps without one. Waking up one morning and finding myself having reached a different conclusion would make me soul-search pretty hard. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #259 May 2, 2005 QuoteQuote The way I've justified my decision to get a CYPRES for AFF is because I've proven to myself I'm willing to make the jumps without one. Blues, Dave Maybe John Faulkner was proving to himself that he could coach a freefly newbie without an AAD on his fatal jump.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #260 May 2, 2005 Quote Maybe John Faulkner was proving to himself that he could coach a freefly newbie without an AAD on his fatal jump. Maybe, maybe not. I didn't know him and won't presume to know his intents. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #261 May 2, 2005 Let me see if I have you opinion right: 10-way speed is too risky for you without an AAD. 10-way speed is not too risky for you with an AAD You depend on your AAD to mitigate the risk down to the point of it being acceptable again to you. You are OK with doing 10-way speed dives and the chances of a collision as long as you have your AAD in the event a collision is so severe you are unable to deploy your main or reserve and live to deal with the injuries that the collision and subsequent landing caused. Someone that drives through red lights with airbags and seat belts is exercising good judgment because they are utilizing safety equipment. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #262 May 2, 2005 Quote Someone that drives through red lights with airbags and seat belts is exercising good judgment because they are utilizing safety equipment. It was you who started this thread with an appeal to not have your words twisted into something you didn't say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #263 May 2, 2005 QuoteIf he would not do 10 way with out the AAD, but will do it with one...It is a FACT that it is the AAD that makes the 10way possible for him. That is because it exists now, it is readily available, and he wants the enhanced safety. 13 years ago, I think it likely he would have done 10 way. So many choose to use safety enhancements on every jump, or choose to not jump without the enhancement on more risky jumps. What is the problem with that?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #264 May 2, 2005 QuoteIt was you who started this thread with an appeal to not have your words twisted into something you didn't say. Fat lot of good that did too. I didn't say that is what he is saying, I asked if that is what he is saying, big difference. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #265 May 2, 2005 QuoteSo many choose to use safety enhancements on every jump, or choose to not jump without the enhancement on more risky jumps. What is the problem with that? I think you meant, "with the enhancement on more risky jumps", yes? Then what is the problem with driving your car faster, more riskier because you have an airbag? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #266 May 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhen did you look, Derek? Here on DZ.com. If we agree that driving riskier because you have an airbag is silly, then why isn't doing riskier skydives because you have an AAD silly? If the sum of your evidence is self selecting poll respondents, no wonder you're having trouble with the comparison. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #267 May 2, 2005 QuoteIf we agree that driving riskier because you have an airbag is silly, then why isn't doing riskier skydives because you have an AAD silly? If the sum of your evidence is self selecting poll respondents, no wonder you're having trouble with the comparison. Still no one explains the difference. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #268 May 2, 2005 QuoteThen what is the problem with driving your car faster, more riskier because you have an airbag? I contend that such a driver would likely have been just as aggressive before airbags were available. Choosing to only jump with the safety enhancement is not a problem that should be fixed. It is not a decision that should be criticized. People might say they will only jump with an AAD, but I believe if they were jumping 13 years ago, they would do it.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #269 May 2, 2005 QuoteChoosing to only jump with the safety enhancement is not a problem that should be fixed. It is not a decision that should be criticized. I have never criticized anyone for jumping with an AAD. QuoteI contend that such a driver would likely have been just as aggressive before airbags were available. And then they would have driven more safely until they had a car with an airbag? How would the invention of the airbag cause someone to drive more safely? Discussing what they would have done before they were invented is irrevelent. Can anyone explain to me the difference between driving riskier because of an airbag and doing riskier skydives because of an AAD? I think we all agree that driving riskier because of an airbag is silly. Hence, I think, doing riskier skydives because of an AAD is silly. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #270 May 2, 2005 QuoteAnd then they would have driven more safely until they had a car with an airbag? Not at all what I was trying to say. I think they would have driven the same before they were available. Just like those who now are dependant on AADs would have done all the same jumps 13 years ago. I have said this many times, but it hasn't been addressed. Do you think such 'dependant' jumpers would not have done the same jumps 13 years ago? I just think it is so easy to make it personally mandatory, that many do.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #271 May 2, 2005 Quote Still no one explains the difference. Why would anyone debate an issue on the pejorative terms of one side of the issue? Is a motorcyclist who won't ride a bike without a helmet but will drive a car without one exercising good judgement? If you're reasoning by analogy then pick better analogies. Or better yet don't resort to analogies that only serve to cloud the real issues, you might escape the next 1000 posts going round in circles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilotdave 0 #272 May 2, 2005 Exactly. Hook and ron never say not to use an AAD. But they do say that every skydiver must be willing to jump without an AAD. But they never say why. Either you must be willing to do it, or jumping is too dangerous for you. I have a cypres. If I want to sit out a jump because my cypres isn't available, what is wrong with that? Give me ANY REASON for why I SHOULD be willing to do ANY skydive without my AAD. Anybody? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #273 May 2, 2005 QuoteThat is because it exists now, it is readily available, and he wants the enhanced safety. 13 years ago, I think it likely he would have done 10 way. So many choose to use safety enhancements on every jump, or choose to not jump without the enhancement on more risky jumps. What is the problem with that? So do you drive more recklesly today than you did before you had airbags?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites divnswoop 0 #274 May 2, 2005 There are two groups of people looking at this from two different views. It's all about how we look at the cypres. Group 1: Going to make a skydive. We ask ourselves," Are capable of the jump? Are we qualified? Are we within our acceptable risk level? THEN we decide to jump with a cypres because WE(and this is just our opinion) feel that it is an intelligent thing to have on our rigs. Group 2: Think that ALL of the people in group one come to THAT conclusion differently. When group one says they won't do AFF, freefly, or a 400 way without a cypres, group 2 thinks that they rationalize the "added risks" because they have a cypres. Now don't get me wrong, I know there are skydivers that do things outside of the lines only because they have a cypres. I hope we all agree that this is dangerous. But this is just not the case with ALL of us. With posts like, QuoteThe way I've justified my decision to get a CYPRES for AFF is because I've proven to myself I'm willing to make the jumps without one. This comment starts with the cypres. Do I want to wear a cypres? Then it works it's way back to the skydive. Personally, I have done aff with and without a cypres. I won't do the latter anymore. I just don't see a reason not to wear a cypres. I don't think ANYBODY should have to prove anything to themselves to decide to wear a cypres. But if that's what you feel, than that's the way you feel. I'm not going to sit here and say you need to look at whether you need to look at whether you should be jumping or not because of this.(like people are telling me I shouldn't do aff because I won't do it with a cypres) The only thing an AFF I has to prove is his abilities in the AFF course. QuoteIf we agree that driving riskier because you have an airbag is silly, then why isn't doing riskier skydives because you have an AAD silly? I think we ALL agree this is a bad ideal. BUT once again, not ALL skydivers are deciding to do a more risky skydive just because we have a cypres. Yes they are out there, but I don't think Kallen or Dave are in this group and that is why we have been going on and on for 12 pages. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #275 May 2, 2005 QuoteHook and ron never say not to use an AAD. Well you got one thing correct. QuoteBut they do say that every skydiver must be willing to jump without an AAD. But they never say why. That is Bullshit. Just because you don't get it or maybe just being argumentative. (I'd bet on number 2) We have said it over and over...Maybe you need to READ the thread without the chip on your shoulder? QuoteGive me ANY REASON for why I SHOULD be willing to do ANY skydive without my AAD. Anybody? Try actually reading the thread. The answers have been written several times."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Next Page 11 of 15 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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livendive 8 #260 May 2, 2005 Quote Maybe John Faulkner was proving to himself that he could coach a freefly newbie without an AAD on his fatal jump. Maybe, maybe not. I didn't know him and won't presume to know his intents. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #261 May 2, 2005 Let me see if I have you opinion right: 10-way speed is too risky for you without an AAD. 10-way speed is not too risky for you with an AAD You depend on your AAD to mitigate the risk down to the point of it being acceptable again to you. You are OK with doing 10-way speed dives and the chances of a collision as long as you have your AAD in the event a collision is so severe you are unable to deploy your main or reserve and live to deal with the injuries that the collision and subsequent landing caused. Someone that drives through red lights with airbags and seat belts is exercising good judgment because they are utilizing safety equipment. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #262 May 2, 2005 Quote Someone that drives through red lights with airbags and seat belts is exercising good judgment because they are utilizing safety equipment. It was you who started this thread with an appeal to not have your words twisted into something you didn't say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #263 May 2, 2005 QuoteIf he would not do 10 way with out the AAD, but will do it with one...It is a FACT that it is the AAD that makes the 10way possible for him. That is because it exists now, it is readily available, and he wants the enhanced safety. 13 years ago, I think it likely he would have done 10 way. So many choose to use safety enhancements on every jump, or choose to not jump without the enhancement on more risky jumps. What is the problem with that?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #264 May 2, 2005 QuoteIt was you who started this thread with an appeal to not have your words twisted into something you didn't say. Fat lot of good that did too. I didn't say that is what he is saying, I asked if that is what he is saying, big difference. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #265 May 2, 2005 QuoteSo many choose to use safety enhancements on every jump, or choose to not jump without the enhancement on more risky jumps. What is the problem with that? I think you meant, "with the enhancement on more risky jumps", yes? Then what is the problem with driving your car faster, more riskier because you have an airbag? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #266 May 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhen did you look, Derek? Here on DZ.com. If we agree that driving riskier because you have an airbag is silly, then why isn't doing riskier skydives because you have an AAD silly? If the sum of your evidence is self selecting poll respondents, no wonder you're having trouble with the comparison. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #267 May 2, 2005 QuoteIf we agree that driving riskier because you have an airbag is silly, then why isn't doing riskier skydives because you have an AAD silly? If the sum of your evidence is self selecting poll respondents, no wonder you're having trouble with the comparison. Still no one explains the difference. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #268 May 2, 2005 QuoteThen what is the problem with driving your car faster, more riskier because you have an airbag? I contend that such a driver would likely have been just as aggressive before airbags were available. Choosing to only jump with the safety enhancement is not a problem that should be fixed. It is not a decision that should be criticized. People might say they will only jump with an AAD, but I believe if they were jumping 13 years ago, they would do it.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #269 May 2, 2005 QuoteChoosing to only jump with the safety enhancement is not a problem that should be fixed. It is not a decision that should be criticized. I have never criticized anyone for jumping with an AAD. QuoteI contend that such a driver would likely have been just as aggressive before airbags were available. And then they would have driven more safely until they had a car with an airbag? How would the invention of the airbag cause someone to drive more safely? Discussing what they would have done before they were invented is irrevelent. Can anyone explain to me the difference between driving riskier because of an airbag and doing riskier skydives because of an AAD? I think we all agree that driving riskier because of an airbag is silly. Hence, I think, doing riskier skydives because of an AAD is silly. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #270 May 2, 2005 QuoteAnd then they would have driven more safely until they had a car with an airbag? Not at all what I was trying to say. I think they would have driven the same before they were available. Just like those who now are dependant on AADs would have done all the same jumps 13 years ago. I have said this many times, but it hasn't been addressed. Do you think such 'dependant' jumpers would not have done the same jumps 13 years ago? I just think it is so easy to make it personally mandatory, that many do.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #271 May 2, 2005 Quote Still no one explains the difference. Why would anyone debate an issue on the pejorative terms of one side of the issue? Is a motorcyclist who won't ride a bike without a helmet but will drive a car without one exercising good judgement? If you're reasoning by analogy then pick better analogies. Or better yet don't resort to analogies that only serve to cloud the real issues, you might escape the next 1000 posts going round in circles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #272 May 2, 2005 Exactly. Hook and ron never say not to use an AAD. But they do say that every skydiver must be willing to jump without an AAD. But they never say why. Either you must be willing to do it, or jumping is too dangerous for you. I have a cypres. If I want to sit out a jump because my cypres isn't available, what is wrong with that? Give me ANY REASON for why I SHOULD be willing to do ANY skydive without my AAD. Anybody? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #273 May 2, 2005 QuoteThat is because it exists now, it is readily available, and he wants the enhanced safety. 13 years ago, I think it likely he would have done 10 way. So many choose to use safety enhancements on every jump, or choose to not jump without the enhancement on more risky jumps. What is the problem with that? So do you drive more recklesly today than you did before you had airbags?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
divnswoop 0 #274 May 2, 2005 There are two groups of people looking at this from two different views. It's all about how we look at the cypres. Group 1: Going to make a skydive. We ask ourselves," Are capable of the jump? Are we qualified? Are we within our acceptable risk level? THEN we decide to jump with a cypres because WE(and this is just our opinion) feel that it is an intelligent thing to have on our rigs. Group 2: Think that ALL of the people in group one come to THAT conclusion differently. When group one says they won't do AFF, freefly, or a 400 way without a cypres, group 2 thinks that they rationalize the "added risks" because they have a cypres. Now don't get me wrong, I know there are skydivers that do things outside of the lines only because they have a cypres. I hope we all agree that this is dangerous. But this is just not the case with ALL of us. With posts like, QuoteThe way I've justified my decision to get a CYPRES for AFF is because I've proven to myself I'm willing to make the jumps without one. This comment starts with the cypres. Do I want to wear a cypres? Then it works it's way back to the skydive. Personally, I have done aff with and without a cypres. I won't do the latter anymore. I just don't see a reason not to wear a cypres. I don't think ANYBODY should have to prove anything to themselves to decide to wear a cypres. But if that's what you feel, than that's the way you feel. I'm not going to sit here and say you need to look at whether you need to look at whether you should be jumping or not because of this.(like people are telling me I shouldn't do aff because I won't do it with a cypres) The only thing an AFF I has to prove is his abilities in the AFF course. QuoteIf we agree that driving riskier because you have an airbag is silly, then why isn't doing riskier skydives because you have an AAD silly? I think we ALL agree this is a bad ideal. BUT once again, not ALL skydivers are deciding to do a more risky skydive just because we have a cypres. Yes they are out there, but I don't think Kallen or Dave are in this group and that is why we have been going on and on for 12 pages. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #275 May 2, 2005 QuoteHook and ron never say not to use an AAD. Well you got one thing correct. QuoteBut they do say that every skydiver must be willing to jump without an AAD. But they never say why. That is Bullshit. Just because you don't get it or maybe just being argumentative. (I'd bet on number 2) We have said it over and over...Maybe you need to READ the thread without the chip on your shoulder? QuoteGive me ANY REASON for why I SHOULD be willing to do ANY skydive without my AAD. Anybody? Try actually reading the thread. The answers have been written several times."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
