Lodi Jumpers

[rhys 0]

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Nobody around here I know wants to stop Bill from operating

Bullshit! Customers drive hundreds of miles, straight past your dz to jump at Lodi, you cannot honestly tell me you would not like to have some of that custom?

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several of us think that if he's not going to play by the rules he's agreed to, he should give up his USPA membership.

Like I said, the day he dies or the day he throws the towel in, until then your envy will continue.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[PeteS 0]

Again another thread hijack! Poor robskydiv, all you wanted to know is if people ever landed in the vineyards. Some, if not most would have folded up and blown away long ago.

[kallend 2,114]

www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100108/A_NEWS/1080316

Media coverage of Lodi this week.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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You meant he corporation that is a holding company for the aircraft and is wholey owned and operated by Bill Dause? Are you really trying to find excuses for someone who has failed to properly maintain aircraft used to carry people for hire?

Well I don't know much about the ownership of the company or who owns the paper on various aircraft, but I am pretty sure that Bill is not the sole shareholder of Flanagan Enterprises (Ian Flanagan might be involved, you never know).
Regardless it is a corporate entity and Bill's personal membership in USPA has nothing to do with it. Your argument that the company's (alleged) violations of FARs should disqualify Bill personally is crazy. If John Kallend is written up for busting an airspace or fails a ramp inspection because his throttle placard is missing, should he be thrown out of USPA? These are FAR violations.
The Parachute Center is not a group member of USPA specifically so Bill can run the DZ as he sees fit without people like you trying to tell him how to run his business. That said the history there and at Pope Valley clearly show that Bill's way does not yield a higher accident rate than other centres. You have no leg to stand on here other than the fact that you personally do not like the place. Fine, jump somewhere else.

[diablopilot 2]

I will forever be amazed at people intent to villify someone for standing up for what's right.

Because of my beliefs I think Mr. Dause should be allowed to operate his DZ anyway he sees fit a) within the letter of the law, and b) within the guidelines of the organization he is a member of.

IMO Mr. Dause is a liability to the USPA.

Using your scenario of Mr. Kallend operating an aircraft outside the provisions of the FAR's is not a comparable situation. He's not carrying persons for hire. In addition he is not an instructional rating holder as certified and approved by the USPA.

Mr. Dause is.

In 10 years it's not very hard to discover the largish number of MAJOR aircraft accidents at the Parachute Center more than one with Mr. Dause himself at the controls. Since the USPA is showing approval of individuals through the issuance of an instructional rating, and we now have precedence of the USPA being legally actionable for one of it's rated instructor's actions (i.e. the many tens of thousand dollar settlement in the Ohio tandem case for one) then it's simply a ticking time bomb before Lodi ends up getting USPA involved in a suit.

Since you're so keen on defending his actions, perhaps you'd like to explain why Mr. Dause has had multiple aircraft grounded twice in two years? Why has he had multiple FAA certificates revoked or suspended? Here's the local FSDO's contact info if you'd like to find out for yourself. http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/sac/contact/ It obvious to even the most casual observer that Mr. Dause is responsible for the maintenance and operation of those aircraft.

Your advice to "jump elsewhere" is appreciated, but unnecessary, as I do and have for many years. However my reasons for speaking out are not simply the obligations of any member of the USPA, nor just the requirements of being a USPA S&TA, or Instructor, but also the moral and ethical obligations I feel to protect, or just educate friends, and fellow skydivers.

Very few will stand up and defend what is right when the opposition is so fervent in their convictions, no matter how misguided those convictions have been shown to be.

Very few of those that jump Lodi know how wrong things are and most that have been taught there have no ability to asses the risk since the safety culture is so flawed.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[VectorBoy 0]

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I will forever be amazed at people intent to villify someone for standing up for what's right.

IMO Mr. Dause is a liability to the USPA.
it's simply a ticking time bomb before Lodi ends up getting USPA involved in a suit.

Real american heros Budweiser salutes you Mr stuck up the competing DZO'S rectum .

[diablopilot 2]

Totally inappropriate.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[kallend 2,114]

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If John Kallend is written up for busting an airspace or fails a ramp inspection because his throttle placard is missing.

Shhhhhh....

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[hook2roo 0]

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Totally inappropriate.

Wow, you call that inappropriate , but yet you post the following:
Very few of those that jump Lodi know how wrong things are and most that have been taught there have no ability to asses the risk since the safety culture is so flawed.

As I understand you used to jump at Lodi before you were replaced as cameraman due to a bad attitude. Have you forgot how many Lodi jumpers are world record holders and how many jumpers have world championships? As you are a S&TA, are you openly challenging the S&TA at Lodi as to there training programs? If you are, you are so wrong and inappropriate!!

BTW, what the hell does this have to do with landing in the grape vines? Or is this just another opportunity to hi-jack a thread to spread your "beliefs" and attack a DZ that replaced you?

WB
Shut up and jump!!! Talk is cheap!

[VectorBoy 0]

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Totally inappropriate.

Agreed, being up a rectum is completely inappropriate.

[diablopilot 2]

I have never worked at Lodi. I have jumped there on no more than 3 occasions.

As for a hijack, re-read the thread, and you'll see that others changed the subject to ask about the status of operations and aircraft at the Parachute Center, to which I responded factually. It was a former employee of the Parachute Center that brought up the current issues.

You seem to take issue with my comment about a safety culture. Knowing the record of incidents, can you suggest otherwise? As an instructor I have encountered many former Parachute Center students that have little to no knowledge of BSR's, FAR's or simply life saving skills. This is not there fault entirely, but rather that of a culture that embraces the "lawless cowboy" attitude.

There are a handful of people that seem to care there. By name I'll recommend Mr. Ed Pawlowski and his private instruction program.

You and others seem to be trying to put words in my mouth.

How do you feel about being charged to fly in aircraft that don't meet the legal definition of airworthy?

BTW, do you and your world champion teammates follow all the FAR's including the one that requires the use of seat belts for taxi, takeoff, and landing? (91.107) I know of another world champion that pretty religiously uses his. He'd have a few more friends still walking around if everybody on the aircraft had been wearing their seat belt when it crashed.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[PWScottIV 0]

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AFAIK, the FAA has grounded all aircraft operating at the Parachute Center (Lodi) owned by Bill Dause or his holding companies for maintenance and/or documentation issues.

The Parachute Center reportedly is currently leasing a Caravan from a DZ in Utah, and seems to have a Twin Otter available sometimes from a DZ in Chicago.

I heard the same rumor from someone at Perris, but after speaking with Bill over the phone, he said they were operating as usual and had not had not been shut-down/grounded at all.

Even if they aren't the safest place to jump (not necessarily my opinion) they do have, by far, the lowest prices anywhere in the world (if you buy 50 tickets at $13 each) http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dzs-sorted.asp?currency=USD

Gravity Waits for No One.

[jumpwally 0]

Never mind all that,,,,this thread wouldn't even be here if he'd taken a few seconds and leveled out,,,,big deal saved 6 bucs,,,,total cunt work....no looks whats going on,,,totally unnecessary...both parties are guilty of ignorant stupidity....

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[riggerpaul 1]

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I heard the same rumor from someone at Perris, but after speaking with Bill over the phone, he said they were operating as usual and had not had not been shut-down/grounded at all.

You are saying that Bill told you his aircraft had not been grounded?

We all know that Bill is still operating. That's not the question.

Bill told you that his aircraft had not been grounded?

Or did you add that to the story?

[billvon 3,087]

Cut it out, Glen.

[4dbill 0]

Okay.. boys and girls. Back on the topic.

S**t, there I was (10/09). The red light came on an east-to-west jump run. My 2-way buddy got a little anxious and hopped before the green light and I naturally took off after him. He was having so much fun during freefall that he screamed his heart out. Yes, you can hear people during freefall!
Anyway, by the time I stowed the slider, I found myself quite a bit east of the dz, on the other side of the freeway, right over a huge vineyard. No problem, I thought, I’ll just hold a little brake make it over the freeway. The angle of attack looked good until the last 500 feet. I was definitely not going to make it over the freeway and over the power lines. I was not about to land in the vineyard either, so I simply performed a last second flat 90 to the right, swooped over the frontage road and landed on the shoulder/ditch.

Lesson learned:
1) Don’t jump before the green light.
2) Peek out before jumping out.
3) Check the spot immediately after opening before stowing away the slider.
4) Study the several ‘out’ areas just in case you don’t make it back to where you want.
5) Be comfortable performing low flat turns, especially with small high performance canopies.

At Lodi, you should NEVER find yourself in a situation where you have to land on the freeway, on the median or on its shoulders. At the worst scenario, when you find yourself too close to the freeway, you can always land on the frontage road shoulders.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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At Lodi, you should NEVER find yourself in a situation where you have to land on the freeway, on the median or on its shoulders. At the worst scenario, when you find yourself too close to the freeway, you can always land on the frontage road shoulders.

I know two people who have landed round reserves on the median at Lodi. 'Course back then we knew how to do accuracy dammit!

[diablopilot 2]

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At Lodi, you should NEVER find yourself in a situation where you have to land on the freeway, on the median or on its shoulders. At the worst scenario, when you find yourself too close to the freeway, you can always land on the frontage road shoulders.

I know two people who have landed round reserves on the median at Lodi. 'Course back then we knew how to do accuracy dammit!

That and ya'll were far better at spotting because it mattered!

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[kuai43 7]

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I know two people who have landed round reserves on the median at Lodi. 'Course back then we knew how to do accuracy dammit!

That and ya'll were far better at spotting because it mattered!

And the covered wagons really weren't moving that fast, either.

Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal

Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess

[PWScottIV 0]

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I heard the same rumor from someone at Perris, but after speaking with Bill over the phone, he said they were operating as usual and had not had not been shut-down/grounded at all.

You are saying that Bill told you his aircraft had not been grounded?

We all know that Bill is still operating. That's not the question.

Bill told you that his aircraft had not been grounded?

Or did you add that to the story?

I guess I can't be sure if he or I actually said the word "grounded", but he did say that nothing unusual had happened and they had been operating non-stop with no lapses in jumping.

Gravity Waits for No One.

[hjumper33 0]

I want to know when all the lodi vs. davis stuff started. Ive jumped at both fairly equally, and like both just fine. I even like most of the people involved in the debate, well, not Glen. Ever since i moved here 4 years ago, theres nothing but shit talking. Perris and elsinore dont seem to do this stuff.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I want to know when all the lodi vs. davis stuff started. Ive jumped at both fairly equally, and like both just fine. I even like most of the people involved in the debate, well, not Glen. Ever since i moved here 4 years ago, theres nothing but shit talking. Perris and elsinore dont seem to do this stuff.

I can't remember the exact details but it went something like this:
A group of experienced jumpers were dirt diving 40(ish?) ways at Lodi. At some point Bill walked up and asked where his slot was. Bill was told he wasn't on the dive. Bill told them all to get off his drop zone. One of the jumpers (Ray Farrell) said something to the effect, "That fucking slow falling asshole! I'll open my own drop zone." He did and the shit has been flying ever since.
It is worth noting that Ray lent Bill a plane so he could keep operating a while back.

[topdocker 0]

It's a lot more complicated than that! I've heard some great stories over the years of why there is no love lost between the two DZ's, but none have been confirmed and are way too involved for me to go into here.

Suffice it to say, they are two different dropzones, both have positives and negatives, both appeal to a certain jumper, both are good places to make one skydive or a few thousand.


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Jump more, post less!

[Andrewwhyte 1]

I have no doubt the soap opera has had further installments but he asked how it started.

[headoverheels 333]

Ray was pretty early doing tandems, the first I ever saw. He used to do them at Lodi, using his own gear. IIRC, Bill would just charge him for the two slots, and Ray would charge the tandem something like $70. As the tandems got to be more than the odd passenger or two, Bill decided to start doing them himself (or at least with his own people), so Ray was cut out. That, and a whole bunch of other stuff, made Ray and Dan interested in opening their own DZ.