Linas120 0 #1 June 19, 2005 Has anyone of you, Katana jumpers, had a cutaway from it? For the purpose of education, could you please share the details of these incidents: the cause, canopy size, W/L, lessons learned, etc. Thanks a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #2 June 20, 2005 My wife had a cutaway on her 107 about 3 weeks ago. Hop n pop from 2500 feet. The canopy could be seen in a cocoon shape (rolled tail too tight) after deployement and spun a few times before inflation. Her first kick to get out of linetwists (down to her head) started the canopy spinning violently. She immediately cut away as they were unfixable and altitude didn't permit any other action. Canopy had approximately 300 jumps on it and has had no issues since. Packing is believed to be the cause of this malfunction. Edit: All 300 jumps at the time were done by her with no issues. Another Edit: Jumper loads the canopy 1.3. The jumper was familiar with low hop n pops. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #3 June 20, 2005 QuoteAnother Edit: Jumper loads the canopy 1.3. The jumper was familiar with low hop n pops. is this how you refer to your wife Ian? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #4 June 20, 2005 I have about 500 jumps split between two Katana 120s loaded about 1.5:1 and have not had any cut aways on them. I have had the same issue that Ian's wife had (or jumper and he calls her ) where rolling the tail too much causes the canopy to stay cocoon shaped and then open up either in line twists or spinning. It's definitely caused by packing though, the canopy usually has extremely nice openings.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Linas120 0 #5 June 20, 2005 Quote rolling the tail too much What are you refering to as "too much"? Eg. 4-6 rolls, 6-8, or....? Of course, the ways people roll their canopies' tails might differ - I've seen some very tight and loose ones - and that also could affect opening characteristics. Thanks for sharing info, btw Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ianmdrennan 2 #6 June 20, 2005 3-4 LOOSE rolls (i.e don't roll it up tightly) is all you need - just to keep everything in place when you roll it up. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ianmdrennan 2 #7 June 20, 2005 Quoteis this how you refer to your wife Ian? When dealing out information, yes I do. She's a jumper just like everyone else. The fact that she happens to be my wife is totally irrelevant to the situation. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 1 #8 June 21, 2005 I thought it was because she was all over you and keeps you warm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #9 June 21, 2005 Quote3-4 LOOSE rolls (i.e don't roll it up tightly) is all you need - just to keep everything in place when you roll it up. Blues, Ian I ussually do about 10-12 rolls, is that too much?You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brierebecca 0 #10 June 23, 2005 I'll add to this thread, althought I haven't had a cutaway on a Katana. I have also jumped Katie's Katana, and because of some instability on opening (a slight turn after deployment), the canopy went into a diving turn. I was able to kick out of it, but just barely. My teammate Brandy was near enough to the opening to get it on video, and having seen it I would say that I probably should have cut away. I was above my decision altitude when I started to kick out of the line twists, but I was definitely below my decision altitude when I finally got the canopy into full flight. My decision altitude is 1700. They definitely are finicky canopies. They have amazing high-performance characteristics (Katie is swooping her Katana farther doing a 90 than I am my Stilletto doing a 180), but with these capabilities comes the added factor of squirrelly openings. If you're flying one or thinking of getting one, getting into the habit of concentrating on flying your openings will only help you. Just my two cents."Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Linas120 0 #11 June 23, 2005 QuoteIf you're flying one or thinking of getting one, getting into the habit of concentrating on flying your openings will only help you. Yes, I'm flying one, just made a shift to it from the same size Demon, what I'm really happy about. I agree with your remark regarding the openings, it seems to be repetitive in many jumpers' impressions about Katana. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ianmdrennan 2 #12 June 23, 2005 My teammate, Tom, loves the KA openings far more than the ST openings (he went from a ST 107 to a KA 89). Slower opening HP canopies require constant attention during deployment as well. Most of the time the pilots make the openings difficult on themselves. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #13 June 24, 2005 QuoteMy teammate, Tom, loves the KA openings far more than the ST openings Me too, I went from a ST 120 to a KA 120 and I LOVE the openings.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Linas120 0 #14 June 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteMy teammate, Tom, loves the KA openings far more than the ST openings Me too, I went from a ST 120 to a KA 120 and I LOVE the openings. I think the good openings of Katana can be put into two key rules: roll the tail 3-4 times, keep legs together on the opening (to ensure symmetry in the harness). Anything else? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masher 1 #15 June 24, 2005 QuoteQuote3-4 LOOSE rolls (i.e don't roll it up tightly) is all you need - just to keep everything in place when you roll it up. Blues, Ian I ussually do about 10-12 rolls, is that too much? Canopy dependent. I do 10-12 tight rolls on my Sabre, and it works. YMMV with other canopies.-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ianmdrennan 2 #16 June 24, 2005 QuoteCanopy dependent. Not true. Rolling the tail too tight can do this under any canopy. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites toronto_bill 0 #17 June 27, 2005 I agree ... I did the same as your teammate. Downsized from st107 to a KA 89. 'saddle input' is a lot more sensitive. My openings have been soft, and generally, on heading. I love the performance ! I have had a few openings where coaxing the slider down the last little bit is needed. I am at 1.85. My dog has almos quit trying to chase me under canopy. Now he just meets me at the bowl. PD did just fine. As usual. TB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mdrejhon 8 #18 June 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteCanopy dependent. Not true. Rolling the tail too tight can do this under any canopy. Blues, IanI'm starting to learn how to pack (at least being explained the steps in detail in preparation for when I have my own rig soon), and this brings up an interesting question I'll be asking the dropzone at some point. But I'll ask here too. Isn't it canopy dependant "how many rolls" is "too tight" for that particular canopy? I notice that Sabre's open very hard and its fabric feels very slippery, so I'd imagine extra rolls is okay and not yet too tight, isn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ianmdrennan 2 #19 June 29, 2005 Extra rolls or super tight rolls aren't going to do anything to keep the canopy from opening slower. They often, like a psycho pack, help packers keep control of the slider placement which is important for good openings. All that, all that will happen is that you'll feel the deployment sequence begin (bag lifting off) and then have a period of 'inactivity' while the air works out the rolls and then the deployment begins as it normally would have. This period of inactivity is where the cocooned canopy can spin up. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites monkycndo 0 #20 June 29, 2005 Isn't it canopy dependant "how many rolls" is "too tight" for that particular canopy? I notice that Sabre's open very hard and its fabric feels very slippery, so I'd imagine extra rolls is okay and not yet too tight, isn't it? I have put about 50 jumps on my used Sabre 170 (310 total), and have packed all my jumps. Mine still feels crisp, but has worn enough to have lost the slippery feel. I was taught to 4-4 roll the nose and roll the tail pretty tight. Have never had a slammer. I actually think the openings are a little snivelly and have started to roll a little less to find the sweetspot I want. A canopy can have certain traits, but each one has its own personality. I guess I'm lucky to have a well behaved Sabre.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #6 June 20, 2005 3-4 LOOSE rolls (i.e don't roll it up tightly) is all you need - just to keep everything in place when you roll it up. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #7 June 20, 2005 Quoteis this how you refer to your wife Ian? When dealing out information, yes I do. She's a jumper just like everyone else. The fact that she happens to be my wife is totally irrelevant to the situation. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #8 June 21, 2005 I thought it was because she was all over you and keeps you warm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #9 June 21, 2005 Quote3-4 LOOSE rolls (i.e don't roll it up tightly) is all you need - just to keep everything in place when you roll it up. Blues, Ian I ussually do about 10-12 rolls, is that too much?You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brierebecca 0 #10 June 23, 2005 I'll add to this thread, althought I haven't had a cutaway on a Katana. I have also jumped Katie's Katana, and because of some instability on opening (a slight turn after deployment), the canopy went into a diving turn. I was able to kick out of it, but just barely. My teammate Brandy was near enough to the opening to get it on video, and having seen it I would say that I probably should have cut away. I was above my decision altitude when I started to kick out of the line twists, but I was definitely below my decision altitude when I finally got the canopy into full flight. My decision altitude is 1700. They definitely are finicky canopies. They have amazing high-performance characteristics (Katie is swooping her Katana farther doing a 90 than I am my Stilletto doing a 180), but with these capabilities comes the added factor of squirrelly openings. If you're flying one or thinking of getting one, getting into the habit of concentrating on flying your openings will only help you. Just my two cents."Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Linas120 0 #11 June 23, 2005 QuoteIf you're flying one or thinking of getting one, getting into the habit of concentrating on flying your openings will only help you. Yes, I'm flying one, just made a shift to it from the same size Demon, what I'm really happy about. I agree with your remark regarding the openings, it seems to be repetitive in many jumpers' impressions about Katana. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #12 June 23, 2005 My teammate, Tom, loves the KA openings far more than the ST openings (he went from a ST 107 to a KA 89). Slower opening HP canopies require constant attention during deployment as well. Most of the time the pilots make the openings difficult on themselves. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #13 June 24, 2005 QuoteMy teammate, Tom, loves the KA openings far more than the ST openings Me too, I went from a ST 120 to a KA 120 and I LOVE the openings.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Linas120 0 #14 June 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteMy teammate, Tom, loves the KA openings far more than the ST openings Me too, I went from a ST 120 to a KA 120 and I LOVE the openings. I think the good openings of Katana can be put into two key rules: roll the tail 3-4 times, keep legs together on the opening (to ensure symmetry in the harness). Anything else? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #15 June 24, 2005 QuoteQuote3-4 LOOSE rolls (i.e don't roll it up tightly) is all you need - just to keep everything in place when you roll it up. Blues, Ian I ussually do about 10-12 rolls, is that too much? Canopy dependent. I do 10-12 tight rolls on my Sabre, and it works. YMMV with other canopies.-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #16 June 24, 2005 QuoteCanopy dependent. Not true. Rolling the tail too tight can do this under any canopy. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toronto_bill 0 #17 June 27, 2005 I agree ... I did the same as your teammate. Downsized from st107 to a KA 89. 'saddle input' is a lot more sensitive. My openings have been soft, and generally, on heading. I love the performance ! I have had a few openings where coaxing the slider down the last little bit is needed. I am at 1.85. My dog has almos quit trying to chase me under canopy. Now he just meets me at the bowl. PD did just fine. As usual. TB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #18 June 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteCanopy dependent. Not true. Rolling the tail too tight can do this under any canopy. Blues, IanI'm starting to learn how to pack (at least being explained the steps in detail in preparation for when I have my own rig soon), and this brings up an interesting question I'll be asking the dropzone at some point. But I'll ask here too. Isn't it canopy dependant "how many rolls" is "too tight" for that particular canopy? I notice that Sabre's open very hard and its fabric feels very slippery, so I'd imagine extra rolls is okay and not yet too tight, isn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #19 June 29, 2005 Extra rolls or super tight rolls aren't going to do anything to keep the canopy from opening slower. They often, like a psycho pack, help packers keep control of the slider placement which is important for good openings. All that, all that will happen is that you'll feel the deployment sequence begin (bag lifting off) and then have a period of 'inactivity' while the air works out the rolls and then the deployment begins as it normally would have. This period of inactivity is where the cocooned canopy can spin up. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #20 June 29, 2005 Isn't it canopy dependant "how many rolls" is "too tight" for that particular canopy? I notice that Sabre's open very hard and its fabric feels very slippery, so I'd imagine extra rolls is okay and not yet too tight, isn't it? I have put about 50 jumps on my used Sabre 170 (310 total), and have packed all my jumps. Mine still feels crisp, but has worn enough to have lost the slippery feel. I was taught to 4-4 roll the nose and roll the tail pretty tight. Have never had a slammer. I actually think the openings are a little snivelly and have started to roll a little less to find the sweetspot I want. A canopy can have certain traits, but each one has its own personality. I guess I'm lucky to have a well behaved Sabre.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
