cutting away, cables fully out?

[EricaH 0]

When I had my last repack on my new container, I pulled both cutaway & reserve handles. My question pertains to the cutaway cables.

I'm 5'8", not a shortie by any form. When I pulled my cutaway, there was no way the cables were coming out all the way without clearing them w/ my other hand.

My rigger said they don't need to come out all the way, just enough to clear the 3ring release loop. So, the distance I really only need to pull is the same distance from the 3ring loop to the end of the longest cutaway cable.

reading other threads people are jumping all over if a cutaway cable has to be completly cleared from the housing or not. And that not clearing it would almost certinaly cause an incomplete cutaway.

I do not use an RSL & this is not a thread about RSL pros n cons. But for other's benefit, have included choices for those that use an RSL.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[Ron 10]

You forgot the"I pull it till I get both risers to release" option.

You don't need to clear the cables, you only have to pull till *both* risers release.

On a Javelin it is supposed to be 5 1/2 inches past the loop.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[AndyMan 7]

I tend to think that clearning the cables is critical for the Tiffany's and Carolyn's of the world.

The Piriya's, Ericah's, Pioters and Andy's of the world can get away with pulling to full arm extension. There is only about six inches of excess cuttaway cable above the 3 rings.

If I ever get back to teaching First Jump Courses, I will teach clearing the cables for everyone - so that I don't have to differentiate for different students. That's how I was taught, and for that exact same reason.

There is no reason for someone built like you to have to do it, other than simplifying the life of instructors.

People are jumping all over it because that's the way they were taught.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[DJL 235]

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You forgot the"I pull it till I get both risers to release" option.

I agree, but more along that lines that you have to keep your wits about you during a cutaway. I've seen people just in a hanging harness get tunnel vision and punch right/punch left and are left there with a main riser still connected.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Ron 10]

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I agree, but more along that lines that you have to keep your wits about you during a cutaway. I've seen people just in a hanging harness get tunnel vision and punch right/punch left and are left there with a main riser still connected

Its all in what you train.

I used to just "right-left" it. And it was clear when I practiced.

I now visualize the cutaway and "feel" the drop before I pull left.

I have been thinking that maybe I will teach pull and strip from now on....But I really don't like not having the hand on the silver before you break away.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[headoverheels 334]

If you throw that cutaway handle away, it will probably come all the way out.

[ScottMcC 0]

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I tend to think that clearning the cables is critical for the Tiffany's and Carolyn's of the world.

The Piriya's, Ericah's, Pioters and Andy's of the world can get away with pulling to full arm extension. There is only about six inches of excess cuttaway cable above the 3 rings.

If I ever get back to teaching First Jump Courses, I will teach clearing the cables for everyone - so that I don't have to differentiate for different students. That's how I was taught, and for that exact same reason.

There is no reason for someone built like you to have to do it, other than simplifying the life of instructors.

People are jumping all over it because that's the way they were taught.

_Am

You calling my girlfriend short??????

I was always taught that you should pull the cables all the way out because that was much easier to stuff in your jumpsuit once you were under canopy, and also that there was no reason to stop until you were sure you had done everything--kinda like that old mantra about if you're going in, you might as well have all the handles out. Now clearly there's situations where that's not true, but I think you get what I mean.

[billbooth 10]

After pulling you breakaway pud, your left hand should have only one job to do...to pull your reserve handle. If it's busy "clearing" breakaway cables, it can't do that job in a "timely manner", can it? Also, reaching across your chest with your left hand is going to do nothing to aid your stability during reserve deployment.

I designed the 3-ring to be activated with one hand, specifically so that your brain (and left hand) could concentrate on that reserve handle. If you use two hands to breakaway, you have effectively defeated the main purpose of the design, and might as well go back to Capewell releases.

[AndyMan 7]

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You calling my girlfriend short??????

Would answering in the affirmative be terribly out of line?

See attached,

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Ron 10]

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After pulling you breakaway pud, your left hand should have only one job to do...to pull your reserve handle. If it's busy "clearing" breakaway cables, it can't do that job in a "timely manner", can it? Also, reaching across your chest with your left hand is going to do nothing to aid your stability during reserve deployment.

I designed the 3-ring to be activated with one hand, specifically so that your brain (and left hand) could concentrate on that reserve handle. If you use two hands to breakaway, you have effectively defeated the main purpose of the design, and might as well go back to Capewell releases.

You have just answered my question that I asked here....

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I have been thinking that maybe I will teach pull and strip from now on....But I really don't like not having the hand on the silver before you break away.

I will stick to teaching one hand on each handle...But to add pull the cutaway till you are released, not just right, automatic left.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[BIGUN 1,486]

I teach the two-handed each side method to FJC southpaws.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[HeatherB 0]

I've had 3 cutaways and I am short. Arm extension doesn't clear my cables but I never bothered to manually clear them either. I just pull until I feel both risers release and then go for the reserve.

I was taught the "old" two hands on each handle method though. It has worked for me three times and is very much ingrained in my mind. I do realize there is a risk of not being able to find my reserve handle after cutting away. I have a metal handle, which is less likely to flip under a MLW and is easier to find by feel. I do a thorough check before exit. Maybe I should just get Capewells.

I was taught to look at my reserve handle as I'm cutting away, but to be honest, I never looked for or at either handle any of the three times I've needed them.

On one cutaway, I thought I'd chucked my cutaway handle (and cursed myself for it ) but it must have been dangling out of the housing...it was found in the peas right by where I'd landed my reserve.

My answer to the poll would have to be "pull until you feel both risers release." To me, it was very much obvious when that had occurred. (no rsl)

[JohnRich 4]

After you pull the cutaway pillow downward to arm's length, sweep your arm back out beside you into the student arch position for stability. That will create enough distance that the cables will be clear of their housings, without having to reach over with the other hand. Simultaneously, as soon as you feel yourself going back into freefall from the cutaway, you do the same thing with your left hand on the reserve handle. You end with both hands out to your side, arching for belly-to-earth stability while the reserve deploys, one handle in each hand.

Disclaimer: I am not an instructor.

Actually, I use cross-chest pulls, with my right hand across to my reserve handle on the left, and my left hand across to my cutaway handle on the right. That makes the above method easy. I just pull the cutaway and sweep my left arm out, then pull the reserve and sweep my right arm out. Arch like hell for belly-to-earth deployment. Hold onto the handles.

I have nine cutaways.

[Travman 6]

My dropzone teaches the one handed method for cutaways (one hand on each handle).
We are taught to clear the cables, but thats not done until the end of the procedure. You should know if your arms length if enough to safely clear the three rings by going through your EP's before your next monthly 3 ring maintenance.

[MWGemini 0]

I was taught pull, strip, throw in my student progression, but I now practice one hand on each handle. I've done tests with both cables and can clear my cutaway cables and my reserve cable at arm extension, so it shouldn't be a problem as long as I don't fire the reserve before the main releases. On that note, I practice to ensure that my risers have released before pulling silver. I have not yet had a cutaway, however. We'll see what happens when that time comes.

Mike

[Frenchy68 0]

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I was taught pull, strip, throw in my student progression, but I now practice one hand on each handle. I've done tests with both cables and can clear my cutaway cables and my reserve cable at arm extension, so it shouldn't be a problem as long as I don't fire the reserve before the main releases. On that note, I practice to ensure that my risers have released before pulling silver. I have not yet had a cutaway, however. We'll see what happens when that time comes.

I was taught both handed. For some reason, around 40 some jumps, I started practicing one hand on each, feel both strongly, peel, punch, punch. My only cutaway happened one handed (on one of the very few jumps I've made without an RSL).

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[btucker 0]

Under stress, one can tunnel vision - I'd hate to spend the rest of my life clearing some lousy cables. I'm not sure I could stay stable either - flying with hands on your handles is hard enough.



I think most at our DZ have been taught:

look and locate - grab both handles
peel and punch - cutaway!
check, check - check both risers have released
punch - go reserve!
arch
clear cables




Almost all ozzie students use a one action system (SOS system) . They are taught to put both hands on the yellow handle and punch it down - then to clear cables. The yellow handle is actually the cutaway handle, but if you keep pulling it; It will pull a red thing that is the reserve ripcord. Therefore, it's very important to pull the yellow handle all the way least you do half the job. Which is why instructors get students to clear their cables. And beat them about the head if the don't!

Happy chops, Benno

[masher 1]

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Almost all ozzie students use a one action system (SOS system) . They are taught to put both hands on the yellow handle and punch it down - then to clear cables. The yellow handle is actually the cutaway handle, but if you keep pulling it; It will pull a red thing that is the reserve ripcord. Therefore, it's very important to pull the yellow handle all the way least you do half the job. Which is why instructors get students to clear their cables. And beat them about the head if the don't!

true


Thumb as a guide, fingers to lock, hand to assist. Peel, punch, clear.

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[EricaH 0]

Thank everyone for your responses.

I esp thank BillBooth!! Good to know what it was designed to do. I thought that's what it was - but wanted to make sure.

Not for my knowledge, but Bill, do shorter armed people need to worry more bout clearing the cables or just go to arm extension?

JohnRich - thank you for the explination - the visual pic I got really cleared up some concerns for me. Like someone else said; I don't want the last few nanoseconds of my life to be spent unnecessarily clearing some lousy cables out of their housing.

I'm going to think about training on the cross arm method - sounds interesting. But I'll prob just stick to the one hand on each. Making sure to build in a few seconds delay to assure full riser release.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[billbooth 10]

All you have to do is pull the cutaway handle 6-7" release your main. No matter how small you are, surely you can do that. Keep your 3-ring cables lubricated, don't use soft housings, do use riser inserts, and above all, pull high, and you'll never have to worry about any of this. Simply keep your gear in good shape, and cutaways will be quick and easy. Trust me...I've done dozens of 'em. (Luckily, only 5 for real.)

[skycat 0]

I'm 5'1 and have 2 cutaways with the one handed technique. So I have pretty short arms, but both times I knew exactly when the main left and I could start pull the reserve handle. Although I'm not 100% sure when the cables cleared the housing cause after pulling both handles I went into an arch with my hands above my head.

Fly it like you stole it!

[Liemberg 0]

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I designed the 3-ring to be activated with one hand, specifically so that your brain (and left hand) could concentrate on that reserve handle. If you use two hands to breakaway, you have effectively defeated the main purpose of the design, and might as well go back to Capewell releases.

Finally! In the Netherlands we have had lenghty discussions about what to teach the students (one hand per handle vs. two hands per handle). We concluded that we agreed to disagree (i.e. left it open and only said; 'whatever is taught, first cut away and then pull reserve...')
When that discussion was running (pre internet times) I always thought it to be a good idea to ask you - since you designed it and all...
But our technical committee decided something else...

What I teach is one hand per handle, release velcro with turn of wrist, extend arm completely towards right hip, repeat same movement with left hand (and please put your thumb through the metal grip of the reserve handle...)

One important argument against two hands pull is often overlooked yet in my mind may be responsible for 'half baked' cut-aways: If you grab the cut-away handle with both hands it may be that you exercise more force but only on the first stretch; when you pull with both hands towards your right hip, your left hand will stop your pull short since it is attached to your left arm. Simple exercise: stand upright and make a fist of your right hand. Now extend it down towards your right hip. Now do the same with both hands (also down towards the right hip) Single right hand pull is 6 inches 'more yellow cable pulled' than the pull with both hands.
(For me that is, your mileage may vary, depending on chest size / breasts? etcetera...)

Then again, back to capewells? If memory serves correct those were designed-after-the-mishap for that case when you found yourself being dragged through a swamp in Normandy, trying to keep your head above the water, while being shot at by Germans - you could at least stop the parachute from pulling you under water...freefall use was strictly at parachutists own discretion...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[kallend 2,148]

Had my first cutaway yesterday (spinning line twists). Full arm extension pulls my cables all the way out. Arms like a gibbon, I guess. One hand on each handle.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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I was taught both handed. For some reason, around 40 some jumps, I started practicing one hand on each, feel both strongly, peel, punch, punch. My only cutaway happened one handed (on one of the very few jumps I've made without an RSL).

I was taught to use two hands on each handle. My first cutaway, I used both hands to pull the CA pillow. Then when I reached for silver- Holy %$*@?!? Where the %&*$ did my siver handle go?!? I was jumping a circa 1983 Wonderhog equipped with a martin baker reserve ripcord handle, which had become dislodged at some point. By that time, I was consciously aware that I had no AAD, and that I was accelerating, low, with nothing over my head. I found the handle, deployed my round reserve, landed pretty hard with a good PLF.

Ever since then, I have practiced,and used during actual cutaways, one hand on each handle.

For Great Deals on Gear

[Squeak 17]

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I teach the two-handed each side method to FJC southpaws.

I'm a south paw and not taught and would not consider two handed cutaways unless one hand didn't work.






Also inrelation Erica's intial post , both the cutaway cables should be the same length from the loop to the tip so that both risers release simaltaneously.

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