Grabbing/unstowing brakes immediately upon opening

[sundevil777 102]

I think I've been doing this for most of my jumping years. It may have become a distinct habit while I had an old paraflite astrobe 7-cell that would not seem to open until I unstowed the brakes.

I read about so many that say they will use risers to steer away from others in the area after opening/steer toward the DZ, not unstowing brakes until the slider is stowed, etc.

Does wanting to pull the slider down all the way drive a lot of people to delay unstowing brakes - because it is tougher to get it past the toggles when unstowed? When I started jumping a square canopy, nobody pulled down a slider, or even collapsed it. I don't swoop, and use wide risers, so of course I never pull the slider down. I also stow my excess brake line in a way that can't come loose and keeps the excess out of the way so I can't get my fingers trapped by mistakenly inserting my hands in the wrong way while quickly grabbing the brakes.

I am able to grab the brakes in less time (I think) than it would take for me to get a good hold on a riser and execute a turn compared to using the brakes (riser turns being less effective).

So, am I unusual, unsafe, what do you think?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[labrys 0]

My concern would be that the one time you really need to execute an emergency turn to avoid a collision on opening would be the one time your toggle got stuck.

Risers are less prone to malfunction in that situation...

Owned by Remi #?

[sundevil777 102]

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My concern would be that the one time you really need to execute an emergency turn to avoid a collision on opening would be the one time your toggle got stuck.

Risers are less prone to malfunction in that situation...

Good thought, but I suppose I would just be pulling down on the riser with the toggle handle anyway!

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[riggerpaul 1]

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I think I've been doing this for most of my jumping years. It may have become a distinct habit while I had an old paraflite astrobe 7-cell that would not seem to open until I unstowed the brakes.

I read about so many that say they will use risers to steer away from others in the area after opening/steer toward the DZ, not unstowing brakes until the slider is stowed, etc.

Does wanting to pull the slider down all the way drive a lot of people to delay unstowing brakes - because it is tougher to get it past the toggles when unstowed? When I started jumping a square canopy, nobody pulled down a slider, or even collapsed it. I don't swoop, and use wide risers, so of course I never pull the slider down. I also stow my excess brake line in a way that can't come loose and keeps the excess out of the way so I can't get my fingers trapped by mistakenly inserting my hands in the wrong way while quickly grabbing the brakes.

I am able to grab the brakes in less time (I think) than it would take for me to get a good hold on a riser and execute a turn compared to using the brakes (riser turns being less effective).

So, am I unusual, unsafe, what do you think?

(Oops. I see that the other responder said just about the same thing. But his response wasn't posted when I started my reply.)

It isn't just about pulling the slider down.

There are bad things that can happen when you go to release the deployment brakes, like one can hang up. If this happens, it might be a distraction from the immediate concern for nearby traffic.

As the opening completes, I am scanning for traffic, and getting my hands up to grab the risers. So I am ready for a turn without concern for what might happen when I attempt to release the deployment brakes.

By the way, I have Type 8 (fat) risers - I never pull the slider down.

[azureriders 0]

I use type 8 risers and never pull down my slider.

I find my rear risers to be more effective at making a canopy open sooner, more effective at bringing down the slider, and for sure no less effective at turning than my toggles.

The risers are also easier to get a hold to with out looking, as in while clearing air space.

As others have said the risers are not going to malfunction like the brakes could.

You said if you had a brake hang up that you would still be pulling down on the riser with the toggle, true but think that through:

When you reach up quickly to unstow your toggles you are pulling both of them down, or so I would assume as the turn you would be trying to make would be extremely sluggish with the opposite brakes stowed.

Lets say you are making an avoidance turn to the right, grab both toggles and the right one jams. Well the left one released, so you are already in a right turn while still pulling the right riser down by the toggle...that might work out for you.

Now the other way, you are still making an avoidance turn to the right but the left toggle jams. Now at best you are holding the right toggle to your knee hoping that this unexpected brake turn gets you the hell out of the way.

I teach and believe that everyone should be comfortable and reactionary on thier rear risers. However, even though you asked for it, I am not inclined to tell you over the internet that you are being unsafe. I do believe that you should adjust your practice though.

[Master_Yoda 0]

This is a major difference between my jumping in the late 80's and today. When I jumped I was reaching for my risers damn near at line stretch. Then as the canopy opened my hands were on the brakes, releasing them. I'd pump the brakes to fill the end cells if needed. Once the canopy was full, I'd split my slider. Lots of demo and accuracy jumpers used these split sliders. The rw and crw guys never bothered with them.

Is there any real difference in performance between the split slider and pulling it over your toggles and back behind your head? (This would probably be better answered by someone who has actually used both types.)

[faulknerwn 38]

I've got a split slider on my CRW rig, but just pull down the slider on my freefall rigs. They work just as well for allowing the canopy to open up, but the split sliders are more of a pain to pack..

[davelepka 4]

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I am able to grab the brakes in less time (I think) than it would take for me to get a good hold on a riser and execute a turn compared to using the brakes (riser turns being less effective

I'm not sure how you figure this. To use your brakes to make a manuver, you need to get your hands inside of your toggles. To grab a riser, you can grab it anywhere on the riser.

To use your brakes, you have to reach just as far up as grabbing a riser, but then you have to unstow them, and pull down far enough to delfect the tail. To se a riser, you reach up and your first inch of movement effects the canopy, no unstowing required.

Those points aside, and pulling your slider down over your toggles (which is WAAAY easier with the brakes stowed) the other thing is that some of the more modern canopies use a steeper trim in full flight. What this means is that if you unstow your brakes, and need to let go of them to do anything else under canopy, you're going to be losing a lot of altitude just flying along in full flight.

These canopies respond tremendously to 1/2 or even 1/4 brakes, but at full flight they are ground hungry. So leaving your brakes stowed until your slider is collapsed, and you are ready to 'fly' the canopy all the way to the ground is way to conserve altitude.

[sundevil777 102]

Grabbing toggles that naturally are "open" and easy to grab is extremely quick to do, and since toggle pressure is so light, there really is not much delay at all in pulling a toggle way down if needed, and they provide an extremely effective turn. I'll have to try grabbing risers to make a comparison for myself, but I really think I can turn very quickly compared to doing it with risers, but I'll give it a go.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[davelepka 4]

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I'll have to try grabbing risers to make a comparison for myself, but I really think I can turn very quickly compared to doing it with risers, but I'll give it a go.

You have to remember that when you pull down on a rear riser, it effects everything from the C lines back, so the entire rear half of the canopy. If you do it while your brakes are stowed, it adds to the effect because the brake setting itself further deflects the tail. The end result is that you get more 'input' to the canopy with less input on the control. Just pulling the rear riser a few inches will produce a turn equivilant to pulling a toggle much further down.

If your toggles naturally hang open, and everything goes well, that's one thing. If you have to fumble for one toggle or the other, if you grab your excess steering line (or if it has come loose, you can stick your hand through the loop), or if either toggle hangs up, you have a problem.

On many modern canopies, or higer loaded canopies, any type of brake release problem can lead to a cutaway. Because of this, I prefer to unstow my brakes in a less hurried manner. I always check that my excess steering line is clear, and that everything looks 'good' before I unstow my brakes. It's cheap insurance against a silly problem that might require a cutaway (just to be clear, I'm suggesting a possible cutaway due to the difficulties of landing with one toggle comprimised on a high performance or highly loaded canopy).

[Master_Yoda 0]

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Those points aside, and pulling your slider down over your toggles (which is WAAAY easier with the brakes stowed) the other thing is that some of the more modern canopies use a steeper trim in full flight. What this means is that if you unstow your brakes, and need to let go of them to do anything else under canopy, you're going to be losing a lot of altitude just flying along in full flight.

These canopies respond tremendously to 1/2 or even 1/4 brakes, but at full flight they are ground hungry. So leaving your brakes stowed until your slider is collapsed, and you are ready to 'fly' the canopy all the way to the ground is way to conserve altitude.

Good to know.

Could you name a few of those canopies with the steeper trim?

Thanks.