DBCOOPER 5 #1 January 6, 2011 Less time to comment on on the changes than is required to file for a Certificate of Authorization (COA). "An application for a COA should be submitted at least 10 working-days in advance of the intended jump date to allow time for processing." Document Title: AC 105-2D, Sport Parachuting Summary: This advisory circular (AC) provides updated guidance material to ensure consistent information on sport parachuting to include best practices. This AC also includes recommended jump pilot training and restraint systems for parachutists. Documents for Download: Draft AC 105-2D (PDF) Draft AC 105-2D Comment Grid (MS Excel) Reference: 14 CFR Part 65 Subpart F; 14 CFR Part 91, Section 91.3, 91.9, 91.15, 91.107, 91.145, 91.147, and 91.307; and 14 CFR Part 105. Comments Due: January 15, 2011 http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/draft_docs/media/AC_105-2D_Draft.pdfReplying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #2 January 6, 2011 It was nice to see this in writing, and in bold print no less - QuoteNOTE: The potential exists for jumpers to strike the tail of many aircraft when exiting the airplane in flight. Pilots should brief the jumpers on tail strike avoidance procedures. No exits should be made from any airplane unless the airplane is level flight with reduced power and airspeed and flaps, if necessary. Jumpers should not exit the airplane in a climb configuration The part about restraint systems was also nice to see, but you mean to tell me that the FAA couldn't get their hands on a jumper with a tight jump suit and an actual rig for the photos showing the proper attachment and orientation of the belts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #3 January 6, 2011 Couple of interesting statements in there that jumped out at me. Quote(2) Because of the absence of airworthiness standards for unapproved components, the same kind of repair may be classed as major or minor depending on whether it is done to an approved or unapproved component. For example, the replacement of a suspension line on a reserve canopy is a major repair, while replacement of a suspension line on a main canopy is generally considered a minor repair, even if the identical technique is required for both replacements. This kills the argument around needing to be a master rigger to do any line work on main canopies. QuoteOver or into a congested area or open air assembly of persons Submit FAA Form 7711-2, Certificate of Authorization Application 10 working-days prior to jump FSDO having jurisdiction over the area where jump is to be made This is going to make stadium demos(even high school ones) need to be planned and all paperwork filed at least 10 business days out. No more short notice demos.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #4 January 6, 2011 http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/draft_docs/afs_ac/ You will have to scroll to the bottom of the page..... Yes, January 15 is the cutoff for comments. MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #5 January 6, 2011 Quote This kills the argument around needing to be a master rigger to do any line work on main canopies. Negative. The Law is the regulations on the Federal Register. The 65.111 Defined spells it out clearly that you have to be a master rigger to install lines. AC's do not trump the Regs and is the reason that a LOI will have to be issued before this can be pulished as active. The paragraphs refering to the handbooks probably will be removed is my guess from the conversations I have had. MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 21 #6 January 6, 2011 QuoteThis is going to make stadium demos(even high school ones) need to be planned and all paperwork filed at least 10 business days out. No more short notice demos. Actually, I don't read that as being that restrictive. They use the expression "should be", not "must", so I believe that if a person or demo team has a good relationship with the local FAA office, (and the office is not busy), that they could get approval in less than that time. I believe that statement says that if you want to make sure you have time to get the approval that you must submit it that much in advance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #7 January 6, 2011 Quote It was nice to see this in writing, and in bold print no less - QuoteNOTE: The potential exists for jumpers to strike the tail of many aircraft when exiting the airplane in flight. Pilots should brief the jumpers on tail strike avoidance procedures. No exits should be made from any airplane unless the airplane is level flight with reduced power and airspeed and flaps, if necessary. Jumpers should not exit the airplane in a climb configuration If the pilot has briefed the jumpers on tail strike avoidance, why do they need to prohibit the exit? Are you saying it CANNOT be done safely? Or just that too many of our current jumping population are unable? Any dz or pilot can easily say "not from my aircraft". Why do we need more than that? What I find interesting is that USPA is trying to slip something in here that amounts to law. To me, that is onerous. This should be a recommendation, not a prohibition. It would be totally reasonable, by the way, to limit the exit to solo jumpers. There's no question that a group exit should not be done until the aircraft is configured for a conventional jump run and exit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #8 January 6, 2011 QuoteQuote This kills the argument around needing to be a master rigger to do any line work on main canopies. Negative. The Law is the regulations on the Federal Register. The 65.111 Defined spells it out clearly that you have to be a master rigger to install lines. AC's do not trump the Regs and is the reason that a LOI will have to be issued before this can be pulished as active. The paragraphs refering to the handbooks probably will be removed is my guess from the conversations I have had. MEL But the clarification made by the AC is that certified and non-certified parachutes can be treated differently, 65.111 notwithstanding. That changes things considerably. We'll just have to wait for the final version to see what remains. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ksjumper 0 #9 January 6, 2011 The bottom of page 12 speaks to airborne reenactments by civilians. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #10 January 6, 2011 QuoteIf the pilot has briefed the jumpers on tail strike avoidance, why do they need to prohibit the exit? I'm guessing that the kid that almost got killed in Lodi exiting in a climb had something to do with it. Everyone and their mother insisted that the kid was briefed multiple times on the exit, and he still dinged the elevator. The truth is that when you look at the situation, between the jumpers and the pilot, the pilot is clearly the more highly trained of the two. Additionally, trimming the aircraft is a strighforward procedure and can be more reliably performed than a specific type of exit, and if the PIC has any trouble trimming the aircraft, they can simply not turn on the light and go around for another try. If the jumper fails to perform correctly, there is no go-around. Once you have made an improper exit, you're stuck with whatever follows, possibly to include a tailstrike. As mentioned many times in the past, there are jumpers capable of exiting on a climbing pass, but there are also jumpers who are not. The way to avoid problems is to properly trim the aircraft for exit, something that every pilot is capable of doing with a high (almost 100%) degree of reliability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #11 January 6, 2011 QuoteQuoteThis is going to make stadium demos(even high school ones) need to be planned and all paperwork filed at least 10 business days out. No more short notice demos. Actually, I don't read that as being that restrictive. They use the expression "should be", not "must", so I believe that if a person or demo team has a good relationship with the local FAA office, (and the office is not busy), that they could get approval in less than that time. I believe that statement says that if you want to make sure you have time to get the approval that you must submit it that much in advance. I agree, as it has gone from 90 to 60 to 30 and now 10 days, it would seem it would allow a few more Demo's to happen. "Last Minutes" have always been a beg and plead type of process. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 107 #12 January 6, 2011 QuoteThe 65.111 Defined spells it out clearly that you have to be a master rigger to install lines. What is "The 65.111 Defined"? 14 CFR 65.111 says nothing about installing lines. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #13 January 6, 2011 Quote What is "The 65.111 Defined Here it is. MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 107 #14 January 6, 2011 QuoteQuote What is "The 65.111 Defined" Here it is. MEL No mention of lines there, either. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #15 January 6, 2011 Mark, I think the word that covers that is "Maintenance". MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #16 January 6, 2011 You are right. I will have to dig up the documents that they used for the word "appropriate" in that definition. MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #17 January 6, 2011 Quote I think the word that covers that is "Maintenance" Matt, You are correct. The sentence refering to that clearly spells out that there are differences in what rating is required by the word "appropriate" with regards to a main parachute. MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 5 #18 January 6, 2011 According to the current AC it's 4 business days. 30 days is for an airshow and that time frame is listed on the 7701 or whatever the form number is.Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #19 January 6, 2011 My point was it is getting better from the olden days of the pony express to the new age of e-work. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SansSuit 1 #20 January 7, 2011 QuoteAccording to the current AC it's 4 business days. 30 days is for an airshow and that time frame is listed on the 7701 or whatever the form number is. OK, here is one the local FSDO hit me up with this summer... In FAA Order 8900.1 Flight Standards Information Management System, General Technical Administration 3-144, A, 2) "Present applications for parachute jumps made over or into a congested area or open-air assembly of people at least 10 working days before an event .... " (emphasis mine) They used it as justification to question why a 7711 app was so "late" (5 days). They then said they would require 2 weeks for demo paperwork.Peace, -Dawson. http://www.SansSuit.com The Society for the Advancement of Naked Skydiving Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #21 January 7, 2011 Know what part 105 and a roll of toilet paper have in common? Nothing! NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
