What would you have done?

[AFFI 0]

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I'd tell you it was off and tell you to go get on the plane and jump with it turned off

Bad advice, IMHO...

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[airtwardo 7]

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Somehow I misread what you said, and thought you said you'd also gotten a gear check. Big difference -- mistakes are not a big deal, bullshitting about safety is.

And yeah, the part about "I love you son" would also be in my response
Wendy W.

***

I did too Wendy...I thought he'd told pops he'd already gotten one!

That does make a difference....

That being the case, I would have just turned it on....and bought him a 'Vette!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[AFFI 0]

Jarret,
If I am working with a student, once his gear is on I do not allow anyone to touch them, check them and if it is already close enough to have the call necessitating the gear be dawned, I.E. 10 minute call, I would prefer you don’t even talk to my student and distract them from the training I have done my very best to provide them with. Early in a students progression, I give them thorough gear checks and they will give me one on the ground and before exit under the direct supervision and assistance of another instructor or very experienced skydiver, upper level students are usually allowed to give me a gear check on the plane before exit unsupervised when I feel that they are ready to do so. Sounds like either your training was insufficient or you are not concerned whether or not you get to eat with your mouth or through a tube in ICU this evening (or in heaven with whatever God you decide to believe in).

You claim that you are an A license holder but listed as having only 24 jumps which means you are still not qualified to have an A license. Have you done everything on you’re A License Proficiency card? Did you earn it all or get some things “signed off” (like the 3500’ H&P, the Accuracies without radio assistance, proper EP reviews ect…).

Your profile says you made your first jump at 9, now you are 14, this hardly applies at having “14” years in the sport (the key word being “in”, not around). The DZ you “jump” at, on their website lists you has having made your first jump March of 2005.
To quote the USPA website: “Minors who are at least 16 years of age and have notarized parental or guardian consent may be allowed to participate in some training programs at some schools, according to the state and school policy. The person providing consent for a minor may be required to observe all pre-jump instruction. Most commonly, schools require all participants to be at least 18.”
But in the BSR’s (do you know what a BSR is young man?) under section D it clearly states:

D. AGE REQUIREMENTS
1. Skydivers are to be at least either:
a. 18 years of age [FB]
b. 16 years of age with notarized parental or guardian consent [NW]

The bracketed [NW] means Non-Waiverable doesn’t it? So can you even acquire a U.S.P.A. A license at 14 years old anyway?

A skydiver with only 24 jumps (not to mention a 14 year old) flying an Extreem FX at nearly a 1.2:1 wing loading? To quote the manufactures website: “The EXTreme-FX is not for everybody. It's built specifically for radical maneuverability and is ideal for turf surfing. It is for experienced elliptical pilots only.” Might as well toss you the keys to a Ferrrari.

There is MUCHO discrepancies with the facts that you have place before us. Just what one might expect from a 14 year old. Just about everyone has a value system, as we mature our value system develops and we begin to learn that creating conflicts within our value system is counterproductive to our progression towards the becoming the type of person we would like to grow to be – I do not know too many 14 year olds that are living their life in adherence with their value system. That being said, my opinion and statements are totally under the category of “IMHO” (in my humble opinion) but it would seem that you are being less than honest, perhaps you are in possession of a brain that is unable to clarify fact from fiction or maybe you are just seeking out attention and feel it necessary to waist our time.

So the question is would I ground you? If I were your father you would not be making solos until you reach the age of 16. You would not be allowed to fly canopies you are not experienced enough to fly at any age, at least not at my DZ. I would make a comment about the Racer at this point, but everyone has varying opinions concerning equipment. I personally do not subscribe to the engineering that is put into a Racer (I am not saying they are not air worthy containers) I know many very experienced skydivers with many many thousands of jumps utilizing the Racer, I just wouldn’t put my son in one, maybe it would be a good water training rig or wall decoration.

I hope to see ya in the air sometime young man, when you are truly licensed by the United States Parachute Association, at the pond fire having a beer when you are old enough to drink, hope you make it that far in life…

Make it a great day!
Mykel

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[livendive 8]

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the reason I said I think its on is because I do the routine so often its like a reaction to saying its on.

After 24 jumps? I wouldn't let things become quite so "routine".

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Guest]

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... what would you do?

For a 14-year old? Month. Grounded. Easy decision. Give you some time to think about how little you are respecting the dangers of the sport.

Question - Have you ever been 120 mph on a motorcycle? If you have or haven't, you respect what that speed can do to you, right? Why not also respect it when its vertical?

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[lug 4]

I don’t have a kid so it hard to say what I would do.

There are some details that are missing like when did this all go down. Were you geared up waiting for the airplane or making a mad dash to make the load? Both situations would affect the course of actions I would take. I may talk to you after turning the ADD on and letting you jump to getting you off the load and have you sit down a little while, to think about what went wrong causing you to stray from your routine and what would you do different.

There is a lesson from this in that a distraction like jumping new gear, rushing, or jumping from a new jump ship, for example, can lead to a disaster. Identifying that distractions exist is important, and knowing when it does can lead you to focus on your routine first, and the distractions second. It takes awareness and discipline to your routine.

Memento Mori

[EricTheRed 0]

FWIW,

This is a 14 YO that is more mature than a whole LOT of 24 year olds I know.

Overall he's a good kid. Don't flame him please.

illegible usually

[AFFI 0]

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FWIW,

This is a 14 YO that is more mature than ****.

What does FWIW mean?

"This is a 14 YO (year old)"

Nuff said...

[tdog 0]

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"This is a 14 YO (year old)"

Nuff said...

King Tut was 9 when he became King of Egypt. He was 19 when he died...

As our life expectancy has gotten longer, we have put less faith in the younger folk to handle responsibility and maturity. By doing that, they act less mature because they are just following the standards of our society.

Without sounding like I am bragging - I owned my first company (landscaping and irrigation) at age 14, and by age 16 I was doing exclusively new installs and retrofits for remodels for commercial work for shopping centers and apartment complexes.

I never went in thinking, "I am too young to negotiate this contract" - and therefore my customers never thought twice about giving me the business. The rental shops were a little worried renting tractors, bobcats and backhoes to me, but I established a track record and good terms. When I purchased my first company truck, the first sales guy asked me to "bring my father" before I could test drive it. 2 hours later I was driving off the lot and the guy said, "I thought I told you to bring your father." I said, "the other sales guy didn't seem to mind my cash, so I paid him instead." Stereotypes suck... Age means little.

I look at my friends who are raising children right now. Those who "baby" their kids and "protect" them from everything have immature kids who can't handle responsibility. Those who give their kids responsibility and clear cut expectations, and have done so since they were super young, have kids who I would trust with my life.

I don't think age has much to do with ability to succeed in anything - as long as the environment is right for the person to excel.

So, I encourage you to not discredit this "kid" because I bet he is/will be a great skydiver.

My two cents.

[packing_jarrett 0]

OK dude so check it out. No I don't have a USPA membership so I don't have the actual A license number but on the profeciency card that I have completed it does say that it is my tempory licence. Yes I haven't been "in" the sport for 14 years but I do probably have more experience then most skydivers today.
Just tell me... what do you have against racers?

Na' Cho' Cheese

[Ragnarok 0]

I say, if he wants to display that sort of discipline, let him. I think death or serious injury is a high price to pay for stupidity, but there are those out there who will continue to insist to exercise their God given right to be stupid.

Not that he BS'd that he checked his AAD, it is the general attitude this kid had about doing his equipment checks.

_________________________________________
Twin Otter N203-Echo,29 July 2006
Cessna P206 N2537X, 19 April 2008
Blue Skies Forever

[tdog 0]

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I say, if he wants to display that sort of discipline, let him. I think death or serious injury is a high price to pay for stupidity, but there are those out there who will continue to insist to exercise their God given right to be stupid.

Not that he BS'd that he checked his AAD, it is the general attitude this kid had about doing his equipment checks.

If "He" is the father - than I agree. If "He" is someone on the internet flaming a kid just because he is 14, then I think the boat is in the wrong dock.

Well, I never met "the kid", so I don't know... The internet is a funny thing, you never get to really "know" the person from their posts here...

Seems like he was pretty honest - he told the truth - that he did not have a check. This will be a huge wakeup call for him if he is smart. He will stay defensive if he is stupid... I had a wakeup call myself a while back... I was showing someone how the collins lanyard on the skyhook worked after I packed between loads. I undid the cutaway and when I put it back I did not Velcro the handle back in... I checked my pins and bridal with the handle laying under the rig with the rig on the floor. I picked it up... As I was putting on my rig, someone showed me the loose handle... I KNOW my procedures are to check all three handles after putting the rig on incase I knock something loose as I am putting it on, and I do another check while walking to the plane, then again in the plane at 10K again, so I would have caught it myself for sure... But it sucked that I did not catch it first. Wakeup call...

[AFFI 0]

Hi Jarrett,
First off, I was not attacking you at all. So be cool dude.
My best friend is a Canadian. He was born and raised at a DZ. His picture was in Parachutist Magazine when he was 8 years old hanging horizontally in a training harness with a caption on the picture saying something like “Tomorrows World Champion”? He now in his late 30’s, is a champion in Canada with a room full of gold medals and trophies and has been to many world meets. I have lots of friends that were fortunate enough to begin skydiving at a young age, when I was your age I was racing motorcycles (12 years total, the last 4 in super-bikes), much more dangerous with a much higher rate of injury and fatality than skydiving. After having formal training of all sorts throughout the course of my life (including the US Army) my favorite aspect of any high risk activity is the training involved. My aforementioned Canadian friend is the pinnacle, the best of the best of instructors in any arena of instruction I have ever been involved with. He is amazingly intuitive and knows the material he instructs thoroughly which happens to be skydive instruction. He is one of my most respected mentors, a fantastic human being and a great friend. I am looking forward to speaking with him about meeting you in this fashion to get his perspective.

That being said, I personally have nothing against anyone doing anything that does not harm others, we are in a free country and there is no law that I know of stating that one must be a U.S.P.A. member to involve oneself in skydiving activities. The U.S.P.A. is the association with whom I am licensed by to instruct other human beings to learn to skydive safely; therefore it is necessary that I teach in compliance with the U.S.P.A.’s regulatory guidelines and recommendations. Not “laws”, they are as I stated - regulatory guidelines and recommendations. If I leaned too hard on you I apologize, sincerely. But as a U.S.P.A. solo freefall instructor I am not willing to condone skydiving activities outside of the guidelines set for me by them. Make sense? I don’t know anything else. Now that is where the age issue is concerned.

As I said about Racers, I have friends who use them; I have jumped them a few times but do not particularly care for the engineering and would not put one on my back, personal preference. Dodge, Ford or Chevy, they all get you to the same destination, know what I am saying?

Where solo freefall instruction is concerned, I am the most safety conscious type of instructor you could imagine. The canopy you stated that you are flying at the experience level you have is a primary concern. There is one thing I cannot tolerate but I must, and that is seeing good people get hurt be it skydiving, rock climbing, driving or masturbating too damn much! You mentioned setting your Cypress as part of your “routine” and I can only imagine you have been handling gear for quite sometime but it may be a bit early in active participation to have developed an active “jumping routine” and that was a red flag for me. A few short years from now you could be competing at the Nationals, or even at the world level but if you make a fatal mistake it will be impossible to achieve whatever goals you are endeavoring to reach in life. It hurts me when I pray for my friend who is clinging onto life at this very moment with a severed spine in his neck, I am praying for God to take him, for him to die. Just thinking of him, tears swell in my eyes. It hurts to visit friends in ICU being fed through a tube, to see them laying out in the landing area with piss and shit in their pants and hear the gurgling sounds of them choking on their own blood all because they put being badass before safety. We are participating in a sport that is safe statistically but is very unforgiving and very easy to get seriously injured or killed.

Please take your time, always put safety first. I am taking time out of my very busy schedule to communicate this to you because I care about people, I care about you and I want the best for you and your aspirations for the future.

We are brothers in skydiving, and as human beings.

I love you man…

Mykel
AFF-I 05

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[mr2mk1g 10]

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Skydiving Priorities: 1) Get a parachute over your head. 2) Land it safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone else. 4) Repeat…

How does the status of your AAD affect your skydiving priorities?

[AFFI 0]

The following article was copy pasted from http://www.skyxtreme.com/archive/feb2000/index_eng.html

Cypres Giveaway
Skydive San Marcos in Texas is happy to announce a new program they call the "Brad Slager Memorial Cypres Fund". The way it works is this: 25 cents from every jump ticket purchased goes to an account earmarked for purchase of a Cypres AAD. When funds allow, a winner will be drawn from all purchased jump tickets.
The catch is the winner MUST own a rig and NOT have an AAD installed. In addition, the Cypres will not belong to the winning person but will still belong to the Brad Slager Cypres Fund. If the winner should decide to get out of the sport, sell their rig, or just decide they no longer have use for the AAD, Skydive San Marcos will uninstall it, draw another name, and give somebody else the use of an AAD at no cost to them under the same stipulations.
After the loss of one of their very good friends involved in a midair collision, the management and all of the jumpers at Skydive San Marcos feel that this is a way to keep Brad's name and picture of an ever-smiling face fresh in their minds and to show their support for a safer sport.

Mat ,
As the article stated, Brad will killed after being knocked unconscious after a mid air collision, he did not have an automatic activation device and evidently parachutes dramatically increase the odds of surviving landings because Brad did not survive his. Brad’s home DZ started this fund as explained in the article. After enough money was raised to get the first “loaner” Cypress, it was lotteried out to a regular jumper at the DZ who did not have an AAD equipped rig. Almost to the day, a year after Brad’s death the very first recipient of the Brad Slager Cypress (well leave his name anonymous) was involved in a midair collision just like Brad was, he was knocked unconscious just like Brad was and thanks to the DZO for starting this great way of equipping skydivers with AAD’s, his Cypress fired just like Brad’s didn’t because Brad did not have one. The very first recipient of the Brad Slager Cypress had his life saved because his AAD worked – he landed UNCONSICIOUS on a concrete/asphalt tarmac totally limp in the saddle and aside from a lower arm fracture and some minor injuries he WALKED away. This is one of many testimonials indicating the life saving effectiveness of the Cypress and it is a very good example the primary precedence being “get a parachute over you head” thus placing it the top of the common sense priorities for survival whilst participating in skydiving activities...

Make it a great day, and don’t forget to turn your Cypress on so you can better your odds of having a tomorrow as well..

Mykel

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[hexadecimal 0]

I fail to understand how you could think it was on.

Also... it's my understanding that a gear check is YOUR responsibility. Having other jumpers gear check you is simply a backup measure "just in case" and to make sure nothing got knocked around in the plane.

[hexadecimal 0]

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Yes I haven't been "in" the sport for 14 years but I do probably have more experience then most skydivers today.

[JohnRich 4]

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FWIW, This is a 14 YO...

What does FWIW mean?

"For what it's worth".

[EvilLurker 2]

I paid a lot of hard-earned cash for my CYPRES, so I take the time to make sure I turn it on and see that it's on before every jump. If you're ever in the situation where it's possible it will fire, that's good information to have. The punishment part is up to your dad, I'm not getting into his business.
Telling someone something about gear that you're not 100% sure of is not cool in this sport, though, as I'm sure you know from packing. Keep yourself alive, little bro, you have a long life ahead of you if you do it right.

• Quote

[Guest]

Uh, no flame intended, meant, or (I thought) typed.

from his post:
>Now the dad that you are has to double check. its a racer so you take off the rig to see and you find out that its off. what would you do?

I suggest to you its possible that something in the lads voice caused his dad to bring the gear down to check the cypress. Pure speculation. But I do know that I DON'T KNOW the full story, and he's probably not scoring "maturity points" with pops posting about it here.

It's not the end of the world, like putting a girlfriend off-limits, or being grounded until he's done with college or something, sounds like just a few weeks off jumping.

>Overall he's a good kid

easy there. Did I say otherwise? I'm way more laid-back than your take on my words. Having just met and recently jumped with the Martins at SDO a few Wednesdays ago, (I did the student hop n pops) and also got a couple boogie stories from a coworker, I'd expect Jarret to be a damn good kid. Damn good kids need guidance too.


.03
Blue ones

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Yes I haven't been "in" the sport for 14 years but I do probably have more experience then most skydivers today.

This sort of overconfidence can be risky. You have 29 jumps. You have more experience than the D holders out there?

But come on - don't leave us in suspense. What did you dad do to you? Fair or not, you tend to side on the side of safety over all else when it comes to your family.

[packing_jarrett 0]

OK so the punishment was 2 weeks off jumping which means I can't go to the end of the month boogie. I'm totally understanding what he meant for overall my dads been around/in the sport his whole life with over 7000 jumps. I'm very thankfull he caught my mistake.

Na' Cho' Cheese

[AndyMan 7]

Any kid who's old enough to be able to jump from an airplane is old enough to take responsibility for their own safety.

If he's not old enough to take responsibility for his own safety, then he should NOT be skydiving.

Since Dad let him skydive, Dad must think he's responsible enough to do it himself. Dad should butt out.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[hookitt 1]

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...I'm totally understanding what he meant for overall my dads been around/in the sport his whole life with over 7000 jumps. I'm very thankfull he caught my mistake.

Did your dad make you say that?

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[packing_jarrett 0]

yep...Oh I get it. Yeah haven't updated my profile in a while. the canopy you see the fx 114 is not my canopy its my dads. The one I jump now is a diablo 135. sorry for the confusion.

Na' Cho' Cheese