wmw999 2,584 #51 June 10, 2010 One of the best trackers I ever saw, a short solid (as in muscular) woman who left everyone below and behind when it was time for our group to split (and I mean seriously so) said that part of her training was that she does a lot of atmonauti. Based on the rest of her performance she's an all-around strong jumper, but the tracking was absolutely stellar. Maybe atmonauti is something to investigate as a piece of the tracking pie. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #52 June 10, 2010 Just an observation, but I wouldn't want to try something new on a large formation. Chances are on the first try you will lose altitude very quickly and you will end up far below everyone else with very little distance covered. Not sure that I would want to use atmonauti for large RW formations. If you have never done atmonauti then get somone who has experience with atmonauti to help. Atmonauti is somewhere between head down and tracking. I have never used it to track away from a formation. On big way HD formations we turn 180 degrees from the center and then drive forward transitioning from HD to back tracking then barrel roll to a regular track. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,584 #53 June 10, 2010 Oh absolutely. Just saying that a stellar tracker said that atmonauti was part of the reason she was so good. In other words, maybe it's not completely useless (which would be the converse to its being the solution to all problems ) Wendy P. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #54 June 10, 2010 I wouldn't say it's completely useless. I have seen people fly atmonauti on tracking dives with others flat tracking. On the tracking dives at Skydive Dallas we usually start out steep to get everyone together and then the leader flattens it out as the dive pregresses to see how many people can keep up. It's a good way to learn to flat track. btw I wasn't necessarily directing my comments at you, just wouldn't want someone reading this to try atmonauti to track away from their next large formation. It's like anything else you have to practise to be any good at it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #55 June 10, 2010 QuoteA little off topic but kinda relevant, I have noticed that Americans are not receptive to the idea of the discipline called 'Atmonauti', americans seem to simply consider it tracking. And half-ass tracking, at that.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yeyo 1 #56 June 10, 2010 QuoteOne of the best trackers I ever saw, a short solid (as in muscular) woman who left everyone below and behind when it was time for our group to split (and I mean seriously so) said that part of her training was that she does a lot of atmonauti. Based on the rest of her performance she's an all-around strong jumper, but the tracking was absolutely stellar. Maybe atmonauti is something to investigate as a piece of the tracking pie. Wendy P. I can understand that and I beleive is true, since every kind of flying helps your overall flying. .... If that makes sense.HISPA #93 DS #419.5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #57 June 10, 2010 QuoteOne of the best trackers I ever saw, a short solid (as in muscular) woman who left everyone below and behind when it was time for our group to split (and I mean seriously so) said that part of her training was that she does a lot of atmonauti. Based on the rest of her performance she's an all-around strong jumper, but the tracking was absolutely stellar. Maybe atmonauti is something to investigate as a piece of the tracking pie. Wendy P. Doesn't surprise me. Even though Atmo is steep, it teaches control of your flight path and how body position affects it. That should transfer to any other kind of tracking.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #58 June 10, 2010 QuoteQuoteOne of the best trackers I ever saw, a short solid (as in muscular) woman who left everyone below and behind when it was time for our group to split (and I mean seriously so) said that part of her training was that she does a lot of atmonauti. Based on the rest of her performance she's an all-around strong jumper, but the tracking was absolutely stellar. Maybe atmonauti is something to investigate as a piece of the tracking pie. Wendy P. I can understand that and I beleive is true, since every kind of flying helps your overall flying. .... If that makes sense. any jump where you are pushing on air and thinking about what that's doing makes you better at freefall I believe that if you are very good at discipline A to where you don't think much about it and you want to get better - you might be better served by going off and learning some brand new freefall discipline - learning new style B will likely make you better at old style A ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cguest4 0 #59 June 10, 2010 Quote"Is opening separation given more emphasis in other parts of the world, or is it just coincidence that there were two collisions this weekend on FS jumps in UK and Italy." Why on earth would you think that in Europe we give less consideration to opening separation? That would be stupid. As already posted they were 2 tragic coincidences, and one of those spent his life teaching everyone to skydive safely and bringing people on in the sport. All the talk in the post doesn't answer the original question - which is that no, we don't give it less consideration. And yes it does sound like you feel superior that Americans are better because they have not had one of these accidents recently. In a radio interview today, Dave Hickling, co-owner of Langar stated that he had seen a similar incident in the states, but thankfully they survived. So, it happens in the US too, but fortunately not recently. Be thankful, and take the lesson that you always have to be aware as bad things can happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,594 #60 June 10, 2010 QuoteWhy on earth would you think that in Europe we give less consideration to opening separation? That would be stupid. Ok, yes it is a silly question. 'Europe' it not a homologous block, and skydiving in the Uk and Italy are two completely different scenes, with completely different attitudes, philosophies and governing bodies. It would be absurd to suggest that the two incidents are some general malaise in the entire European geographical area that does not exist elsewhere. However, just getting nationalistically defensive about the question is not productive at all, it's just an excuse to ignore the issue. Personally, I don't think that opening seperation is given enough emphasis anywhere in the world (nowhere that I've been, anyway) and even when it is, because so little emphasis is given to training new skydivers in tracking or encouraging experienced skydivers to keep improving there are far, far too many skydivers out there (everywhere) who really don't know what good seperation is.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cguest4 0 #61 June 10, 2010 Jakee I completely agree with you and am not being nationalistic. It seems that the poster wanted to be sensationalist and draw attention to his post with the inflammatory title. Why not instead raise a post like the other one that was raised and ask a more sensible question like yours - is tracking given enough attention? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #62 June 11, 2010 QuoteAnd half-ass tracking, at that. seeing you can give it can you take it? Hows your tracking going these days anyway?"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #63 June 11, 2010 QuoteSince we are discussing "tracking" as a means to obtain deployment separation following a jump, are you saying that Atmonauti is the best means to do this ? No Atmo and tracking are two separate things, but 'many' Americans refuse to acknowledge that. We track away from Atmo jumps too like any jump. QuoteIf that is your point, I think you may find disagreement here. (Although certainly not from the eminent skydiver, Sangi, who is an expert in the field of Atmonauti, and all other forms of skydiving.) That was never my point, you were just putting words in my mouth. At least Sangi actually still skydives which is more than can be said for more than one outspoken 'ex' meatbomb here. He is passionate about participating in the sport, not talking about it. Ones current jump numbers have nothing to do with their skills, aspirations and aptitude. I know of people with more than 6 times less jumps than me that can fly circles around me, it comes down to what you focus your energy on."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #64 June 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteAnd half-ass tracking, at that. seeing you can give it can you take it? Hows your tracking going these days anyway? Just fine, thanks - but then again, it's been flatter than atmo since my AFF. How's your atmo going...been able to get flatter than 45 degrees yet?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #65 June 11, 2010 QuoteJust fine, thanks - but then again, it's been flatter than atmo since my AFF. How's your atmo going...been able to get flatter than 45 degrees yet? You had better update your profile if so, because it seems to me you have not jumped in a long time but spent you entire life pushing your opinion in this website. I suppose you can Track feet first also? or freefall relatve with the aircraft? I can track a'ight, at my last big way camp I learned lot and improved significantly, but when we fly atmo we don't intend on being flat and stiff, Atmo and tracking are two different 'fall' games. You seem to have a strong opinion on the subject for someone with 50 jumps, or is it that you are stalking me? I know what your thoughts are on me but that is based on politics and does not belong in this forum."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,594 #66 June 11, 2010 QuoteJust fine, thanks - but then again, it's been flatter than atmo since my AFF. How's your atmo going...been able to get flatter than 45 degrees yet? Are you trying to say you had a better than 45 degree track when you had 10 jumps?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #67 June 11, 2010 Quote Quote Just fine, thanks - but then again, it's been flatter than atmo since my AFF. How's your atmo going...been able to get flatter than 45 degrees yet? Are you trying to say you had a better than 45 degree track when you had 10 jumps? Or 50 over 13 years! 25000 posts and 50 jumps over 13 years! you can see where the priorities lie with this guy... and he has the audacity to mock the europeans that have incredible skill for being half assed. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #68 June 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteAnd half-ass tracking, at that. seeing you can give it can you take it? Hows your tracking going these days anyway? Just fine, thanks - but then again, it's been flatter than atmo since my AFF. How's your atmo going...been able to get flatter than 45 degrees yet? See THIS thread. Even the best trackers have a hard time breaking 1:1 glide ratio (which corresponds to 45 degrees). I find your comment unconvincing.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #69 June 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteJust fine, thanks - but then again, it's been flatter than atmo since my AFF. How's your atmo going...been able to get flatter than 45 degrees yet? You had better update your profile if so, because it seems to me you have not jumped in a long time but spent you entire life pushing your opinion in this website. Well, you'd certainly know about that, wouldn't you? HOW many 9/11 threads have you started, again? QuoteI suppose you can Track feet first also? or freefall relatve with the aircraft? Nope, I haven't tracked feet first, and our pilots don't dive beside the jumpers, sorry. QuoteI can track a'ight, at my last big way camp I learned lot and improved significantly, but when we fly atmo we don't intend on being flat and stiff, Atmo and tracking are two different 'fall' games. You're right - I really should have said 'half-assed freefly', instead. QuoteYou seem to have a strong opinion on the subject for someone with 50 jumps, or is it that you are stalking me? I know what your thoughts are on me but that is based on politics and does not belong in this forum. So, why did you make the comment about 'spending my entire life pushing my opinion in this website' - practice what you preach, for once.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #70 June 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAnd half-ass tracking, at that. seeing you can give it can you take it? Hows your tracking going these days anyway? Just fine, thanks - but then again, it's been flatter than atmo since my AFF. How's your atmo going...been able to get flatter than 45 degrees yet? See THIS thread. Even the best trackers have a hard time breaking 1:1 glide ratio (which corresponds to 45 degrees). I find your comment unconvincing. I was actually speaking of my body position, to twit rhys - your comment just makes the point even more obvious that atmo isn't all that and a bag of chips.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #71 June 11, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Just fine, thanks - but then again, it's been flatter than atmo since my AFF. How's your atmo going...been able to get flatter than 45 degrees yet? Are you trying to say you had a better than 45 degree track when you had 10 jumps? Or 50 over 13 years! 25000 posts and 50 jumps over 13 years! you can see where the priorities lie with this guy... We've been through this before, rhys - my first jump was that long ago, then I took 10 years off to raise a family - you know, that thing responsible people do instead of taking unknowing passengers on night tandems. Quote and he has the audacity to mock the europeans that have incredible skill for being half assed. Incredible skill in what? Doesn't seem to be tracking.... Quote Indeed. Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #72 June 11, 2010 You seem to be assuming alot about the european skill set for a 50 jump over what, 3years wonder. Obviously not been out much lately have we now..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halfpastniner 0 #73 June 11, 2010 Dude. Atmo is just the FF portion of the skydive. He already said at breakoff they track (the flat way) to achieve separation.BASE 1384 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #74 June 11, 2010 QuoteYou seem to be assuming alot about the european skill set for a 50 jump over what, 3years wonder. Obviously not been out much lately have we now. You seem to assume a lot, period. Some of us have jobs that keep us from jumping and can only get jumps in on infrequent vacations. Just what *is* this 'European skill set' that you and rhys talk about? Do you get it installed at birth, or is it given to you when you show up at the DZ the first time?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #75 June 11, 2010 Quote Dude. Atmo is just the FF portion of the skydive. He already said at breakoff they track (the flat way) to achieve separation. Yeah, I know....but it's always fun to twit the atmo folks. Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
