The New Skyride??????

[Jumpdude 0]

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Just a little off topic but it is related.

How is the contract written between you and 1800skyride/Thrill Planet?

Matt

So what about that contract Chicagoland? If the rumors are true, you don't have one, it's all a deal where they just send you your own customers with a GC, then you turn it in.

I'm surprised, but I shouldn't be, that you have not yet answered this important question. So, what about it Chicagoland, Do you or do you not have a contract that legally obligates you to accept GC's from 1 800 Skyride??

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[Jumpdude 0]

Hey Chicagoland, Are you paying close attention to this thread?
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3834271;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread


It's talking about the DZO's who accept sLyride and you are one of them!
The question is, have you made enough money from sLyride to support yourself if you were to get drug in to that court case?

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[alabamaskydiver 0]

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Just a little off topic but it is related.

How is the contract written between you and 1800skyride/Thrill Planet?

Matt

So what about that contract Chicagoland? If the rumors are true, you don't have one, it's all a deal where they just send you your own customers with a GC, then you turn it in.

I'm surprised, but I shouldn't be, that you have not yet answered this important question. So, what about it Chicagoland, Do you or do you not have a contract that legally obligates you to accept GC's from 1 800 Skyride??

Since it has been 2 weeks since this question was initially asked, We can assume that you DO NOT have a contract and you are continuing to accept the GC's from Thrill Planet/Skyride by your own free will. I suppose that your idea of being an honest business man is to accept the business and money from criminals. I hope you enjoy your cut of the scam money!

[IanHarrop 42]

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One of the things that bothers me what happens when you looks up a state that has no Proskydiving centers.

Look at Montana. The DZs that get the big headlines are all in other states. The actual Montana dropzones are listed as at the bottom in the small print. I believe that a whuffo is not going to look for the fine print and going to miss that there are actual places, good ones, that people can jump at in Montana.

When someone selects Montana they should only get Montana dropzones, not be encouraged to go to another state.

Just my opinion.

And they are still directing newbies to other states, local dzs be damned if you don't sign up with them.
Potential customers will be sent to other states.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[popsjumper 2]

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One of the things that bothers me what happens when you looks up a state that has no Proskydiving centers.

Look at Montana. The DZs that get the big headlines are all in other states. The actual Montana dropzones are listed as at the bottom in the small print. I believe that a whuffo is not going to look for the fine print and going to miss that there are actual places, good ones, that people can jump at in Montana.

When someone selects Montana they should only get Montana dropzones, not be encouraged to go to another state.

Just my opinion.

And they are still directing newbies to other states, local dzs be damned if you don't sign up with them.
Potential customers will be sent to other states.

Why do I have the awful taste in my mouth?
A Slyride by any other name is still a Slyride.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[BillyVance 34]

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One of the things that bothers me what happens when you looks up a state that has no Proskydiving centers.

Look at Montana. The DZs that get the big headlines are all in other states. The actual Montana dropzones are listed as at the bottom in the small print. I believe that a whuffo is not going to look for the fine print and going to miss that there are actual places, good ones, that people can jump at in Montana.

When someone selects Montana they should only get Montana dropzones, not be encouraged to go to another state.

Just my opinion.

And they are still directing newbies to other states, local dzs be damned if you don't sign up with them.
Potential customers will be sent to other states.

Why do I have the awful taste in my mouth?
A Slyride by any other name is still a Slyride.

I put in my location and it gave DZ locations in other states, none in my state, even though there are 3 good places to jump here. Far as I'm concerned, fuck this shit.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[popsjumper 2]

I guess everyone has noticed that chicagoland has left the building.

Heat/kitchen, kitchen/heat and all that.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[timmyfitz 0]

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I guess everyone has noticed that chicagoland has left the building.

I would have done the same thing if I were him since there are not any intelligent conversations going on.

[AndyMan 7]

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And they are still directing newbies to other states, local dzs be damned if you don't sign up with them.
Potential customers will be sent to other states.

I just don't get what you're asking for.

When people complained about SkyRide, they complained that Skyride hid competing dropzones that aren't in the program. When ProSkydiving set up this page, the hoped to avoid this criticism by showing every DZ in the area. When I first saw it, I thought it was a pretty reasonable approach. I still think it's a reasonable approach- and I don't have a horse in this race.

You're asking that they show non-Proskydiving in the top section, in the section labeled "3 PRO Skydiving dropzones were found for Montana". Clearly, that would be false advertising as you're asking for non-member DZ's to be listed as a member DZ. I imagine that would piss off even more DZO's.

The site is CLEARLY identified as a "National Dropzone Connection", and clearly distinguishes between member DZ's and non-member DZ's. I would think you would be happy with this as I can not think of a single booking agency that lists non member businesses.

Does Priceline, Orbitz, or Travelocity show airlines, hotels, or car rental companies they don't do business with? Do they highlight non-partners in their search results?

What the hell are you asking for, anyways?

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[kallend 2,113]

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and I don't have a horse in this race.

Andy,

Your profile says "Home DZ: Chicagoland Skydiving Center"

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

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What the hell are you asking for, anyways?

How about fair/honest trade regulations over the internet? Yah... I know that's never going to happen.

Here's a suggestion. How about making it affordable for every DZO so they WANT to participate instead of feeling like they HAVE TO participate.

ProSkydiving... Why not just charge a minimum fee and make it so cheap that it would be stupid not to participate. I would think that if you got 90% of the DZ's in the US, you could still make lots of money and have everyones support. Win, Win!!! You're on the right track... just don't get greedy.

Also, if you get established and are priced right, other businesses may not bother to compete against you. Be smart and honest all at the same time. There's a novel approach.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[AndyMan 7]

That's old. I need to update it. Moving my trailer next weekend. ;)

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[AndyMan 7]

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Here's a suggestion. How about making it affordable for every DZO so they WANT to participate instead of feeling like they HAVE TO participate.

As far as I can tell, they have. They've signed up more than 50% of DZ's.

I don't see many people here complaining about price. I hear people saying "it's just another skyride", which clearly - it is not.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

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I don't see many people here complaining about price. I hear people saying "it's just another skyride", which clearly - it is not.

_Am

I truly do not have a horse in this race. I'm just a Newb with an attitude. But this I can tell you....

I talked to two separate DZO's in the last week about this. Neither has signed up for Pro's service. Both said basically the same thing... it went something like this, "it's too expensive! If it were cheaper, we'd be all over it." More importantly, they were upset because they felt like they would be losing customers to a "misleading" (I believe that's the term they used) website/marketing approach.

It just seems to me that Pro has an opportunity to capture a market and keep it. If they get greedy, competitors will pop up and under cut them. If they resort to dishonest business practices.... Slyride II lawsuit - The Sequel. Be smart! You may not get rich quick, but life is a marathon.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[Jumpdude 0]

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Here's a suggestion. How about making it affordable for every DZO so they WANT to participate instead of feeling like they HAVE TO participate.

As far as I can tell, they have. They've signed up more than 50% of DZ's.

I don't see many people here complaining about price. I hear people saying "it's just another skyride", which clearly - it is not.

_Am

It has been proven through out this thread that the owner/operator of PROSkydiving is affiliated with sLyride,
He admitted to accepting the sLyride GC's,
He admitted that he has no intentions of severing any ties to sLyride,
He has refused to answer the question about whether or not he has a contract that legally binds him to accept the GC's, thus, the same as admitting he is accepting the sLyride GC's by his own free will.
He admitted to "Paying his bills" with sLyride money.
It's the same identical business model as sLyride with only a few differences, none are designed to help the non members, Even the owner admitted to his intention to put this website in between the DZ and the customer, and it's already proven that this site is being used to force unwilling DZO's to join,
and so on and so forth.
It's sLyride,,,,

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[AndyMan 7]

WTF? His DZ takes the certificates, so does Perris, Elsinore, Holister, and Lodi, Brown, Byron, San Diego, and Sacramento - and that's just California.

I'm heading off to the 100-ways at Perris in a few weeks. I presume you'll hold them to the same standard?

Regardless - attempts to paint ProSkydiving and Skyride with the same brush is wrong. Separate people, separate businesses, separate everything. Thank god, because Skydiving needs SkyRide to go away, but I've heard that ProSkydiving is an answer some DZO's are looking for.

You can keep saying the same thing over and over again, but you're still wrong. ProSkydiving is not Skyride - they're completely different, the businesses have no connection, and if you continue to make that accusation I can only assume that your motivation is malice, rather than ignorance. And honestly, that's just pretty lame.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[IanHarrop 42]

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And they are still directing newbies to other states, local dzs be damned if you don't sign up with them.
Potential customers will be sent to other states.

I just don't get what you're asking for.

When people complained about SkyRide, they complained that Skyride hid competing dropzones that aren't in the program. When ProSkydiving set up this page, the hoped to avoid this criticism by showing every DZ in the area. When I first saw it, I thought it was a pretty reasonable approach. I still think it's a reasonable approach- and I don't have a horse in this race.

You're asking that they show non-Proskydiving in the top section, in the section labeled "3 PRO Skydiving dropzones were found for Montana". Clearly, that would be false advertising as you're asking for non-member DZ's to be listed as a member DZ. I imagine that would piss off even more DZO's.

The site is CLEARLY identified as a "National Dropzone Connection", and clearly distinguishes between member DZ's and non-member DZ's. I would think you would be happy with this as I can not think of a single booking agency that lists non member businesses.

Does Priceline, Orbitz, or Travelocity show airlines, hotels, or car rental companies they don't do business with? Do they highlight non-partners in their search results?

What the hell are you asking for, anyways?

My suggestion would be to not list out of state dropzones. Simply state that there are no proskydiving dzs in the state. If they then had the list of non-proskydiving dz in the state listed, even in the small font as they do now. I think its wrong to direct people to go to other states.

I hope this answers your question "What the hell are you asking for, anyways?"

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[redlegphi 0]

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And they are still directing newbies to other states, local dzs be damned if you don't sign up with them.
Potential customers will be sent to other states.

I just don't get what you're asking for.

When people complained about SkyRide, they complained that Skyride hid competing dropzones that aren't in the program. When ProSkydiving set up this page, the hoped to avoid this criticism by showing every DZ in the area. When I first saw it, I thought it was a pretty reasonable approach. I still think it's a reasonable approach- and I don't have a horse in this race.

You're asking that they show non-Proskydiving in the top section, in the section labeled "3 PRO Skydiving dropzones were found for Montana". Clearly, that would be false advertising as you're asking for non-member DZ's to be listed as a member DZ. I imagine that would piss off even more DZO's.

The site is CLEARLY identified as a "National Dropzone Connection", and clearly distinguishes between member DZ's and non-member DZ's. I would think you would be happy with this as I can not think of a single booking agency that lists non member businesses.

Does Priceline, Orbitz, or Travelocity show airlines, hotels, or car rental companies they don't do business with? Do they highlight non-partners in their search results?

What the hell are you asking for, anyways?

My suggestion would be to not list out of state dropzones. Simply state that there are no proskydiving dzs in the state. If they then had the list of non-proskydiving dz in the state listed, even in the small font as they do now. I think its wrong to direct people to go to other states.

I hope this answers your question "What the hell are you asking for, anyways?"

Except that wouldn't make any sense for people who live anywhere close to the border between their own state and another state. For example, my parents live near the border between Pennsylvania and Delaware. Crosskeys in NJ is one of the closest (if not THE closest) dropzones to them, but would be eliminated from their search based on your suggestion.
Personally, I don't see any issue with this site. They aren't setting up websites for fake dropzones. They're providing a booking service which DZOs can choose to take advantage of or not, depending on if they feel it'd be profitable or not. Yes, they don't list non-affiliated DZs at the top of the page. If they did, there'd be almost no reason to sign up for their service. Presumably, they aren't running a charity for DZOs, so I think that's entirely understandable. And if some other DZOs get together and start a competing skydive booking site, adding some competition to the marketplace and driving down prices, all the better.

[Opie 0]

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WTF? His DZ takes the certificates, so does Perris, Elsinore, Holister, and Lodi, Brown, Byron, San Diego, and Sacramento - and that's just California.

I'm heading off to the 100-ways at Perris in a few weeks. I presume you'll hold them to the same standard?

Regardless - attempts to paint ProSkydiving and Skyride with the same brush is wrong. Separate people, separate businesses, separate everything. Thank god, because Skydiving needs SkyRide to go away, but I've heard that ProSkydiving is an answer some DZO's are looking for.

You can keep saying the same thing over and over again, but you're still wrong. ProSkydiving is not Skyride - they're completely different, the businesses have no connection, and if you continue to make that accusation I can only assume that your motivation is malice, rather than ignorance. And honestly, that's just pretty lame.

_Am

and you continue to ignore the fact that Doug runs CSC (a skyride dz) and ProSkydiving.

[riggerpaul 1]

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Does Priceline, Orbitz, or Travelocity show airlines, hotels, or car rental companies they don't do business with?

Aren't these services (Priceline, Orbitz, Travelocity, etc) essentially different in that they get lower prices for the consumer?

I was under the impression that SR increased the price of the jump.

I don't know about this new service. Does it increase or decrease the cost to the consumer?

[popsjumper 2]

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....Separate people, separate businesses, separate everything.
....ProSkydiving is not Skyride - they're completely different, the businesses have no connection

....I can only assume that your motivation is malice, rather than ignorance.

Well, AndyMan, yes they are different businesses and people. However, it appears that you are neglecting the similarities in the business models.

Pro claims that they generate new business and that's not so....just like Slyride, they are only re-directing customers from one DZ to another DZ in their network.

There are other similarities...many provided by chicagoland himself...read the thread.

It's noble that somebody wants to counter Slyride. The current ProSkydiving approach, while in many ways a good starting point, could be enhanced to remove many of the similarities to Slyride....that's all that's being said.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[davelepka 4]

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The site is CLEARLY identified as a "National Dropzone Connection", and clearly distinguishes between member DZ's and non-member DZ's.

Does Priceline, Orbitz, or Travelocity show airlines, hotels, or car rental companies they don't do business with?

The problem with that is that consumers have very little knowledge of this industry, and how things work. Using the terms 'member' and 'non-member' DZs makes it sound like this is an organization, ala USPA, and not a for-profit business. It gives the impression that 'non-members' are lacking in something besides their willingness to part with half of their profits.

While not of the same caliber and scale of the deception carried out by Skyride, it does leave the door open for consumers to believe that the non-members DZ are 'something less'. Priceline, Orbits, and Travelocity customers are well aware that Holiday Inn and Hilton are individual businesses, and that even if DoubleTree and Motel 6 don't appear on those sites, they are credible businesses who simply chose not to do business with those booking services.

I would almost venture to say that the inclusion of 'non-member' DZs is a backhanded way of downplaying their status to the consumer, creating an artificial bias where none would have previously existed. So while there may be a DZ an hour away, they are not a member of 'Pro' skydiving.com, and in turn must be less-than 'pro'fessional.

There simply is no room for a booking service in this industry. Travel is a different animal, catering to national businesses and national customers, but DZs are local businesses seeking only local customers. With or without the booking service, the DZ and their customers would come together, only competing with other local DZ, and as such the size of the market would dictate the size of the marketing effort required to deal with such competition,

I've said it before, but Proskydiving could make a mint offering secure online payment and reservation solutions to DZ. If they were absent from the equation until a DZs customer hit the 'Buy now' button on the DZ website, at which point Proskyidving took over and handled the administration of the sale, that would a legit business, and one that virtually everyu DZ would take advanage of because it does not come between them and their customers.

I outlined earlier in this thread how such a business could be run on a flat monthly fee, and easily generate upwards of $75,000 a year. That's $75k a year for operating a website, all the while leaving ample time to run CSC and make whatever profits are to be had there. That would be a legitimate business, and that would be an asset to the industry.

Instead, greed has once again been the victor. Doug has set his sights on the high six-figure range far what he wants to extract from this industry per annum, and nothing is going to stop him. Not that fact that all of the money is no longer going to the DZOs who actually provide the service, and rightfully earn it.

Not the fact that with all of that revenue going into his pocket, it's not available for upgrades to tandem and student gear, upgrades to aircraft, or upgrades to the amount of food in the cupboards of some DZO's homes.

None of that matters to Doug becasue he's a greedy parasite, looking to drain this industry of money it can't afford to lose. Some people work their whole lives to make $75k per year, and even though he's got a chance to make that by doing very little work and not interfering with his existing business, he's going to take a pass, and shoot for the big time.

The only difference between Proskydiving and Skyride, is that Doug had the benefit of seeing Skyride's mistakes from the outset. Skyride set the bar for how low you could go, and Doug had the advantage of being able to come in just above that position, and claim to be the 'good guy', and while in some areas he may be a 'better guy' than Skyride, at the end of the day all he did was just barely clear a very, very low hurdle.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Aren't these services (Priceline, Orbitz, Travelocity, etc) essentially different in that they get lower prices for the consumer?

Not to go off on a tangent, but my own personal (but repeated) experience has been that Priceline, Orbitz, Travelocity and Expedia only have a limited number (or at least something less than 100%) of flights "offered" to them, and thus are often more expensive (but certainly not cheaper) than going directly to the airlines' own websites. Maybe others have had different experiences, but this has consistently been mine.

[timmyfitz 0]

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The site is CLEARLY identified as a "National Dropzone Connection", and clearly distinguishes between member DZ's and non-member DZ's.

Does Priceline, Orbitz, or Travelocity show airlines, hotels, or car rental companies they don't do business with?

The problem with that is that consumers have very little knowledge of this industry, and how things work. Using the terms 'member' and 'non-member' DZs makes it sound like this is an organization, ala USPA, and not a for-profit business. It gives the impression that 'non-members' are lacking in something besides their willingness to part with half of their profits.

While not of the same caliber and scale of the deception carried out by Skyride, it does leave the door open for consumers to believe that the non-members DZ are 'something less'. Priceline, Orbits, and Travelocity customers are well aware that Holiday Inn and Hilton are individual businesses, and that even if DoubleTree and Motel 6 don't appear on those sites, they are credible businesses who simply chose not to do business with those booking services.

I would almost venture to say that the inclusion of 'non-member' DZs is a backhanded way of downplaying their status to the consumer, creating an artificial bias where none would have previously existed. So while there may be a DZ an hour away, they are not a member of 'Pro' skydiving.com, and in turn must be less-than 'pro'fessional.

There simply is no room for a booking service in this industry. Travel is a different animal, catering to national businesses and national customers, but DZs are local businesses seeking only local customers. With or without the booking service, the DZ and their customers would come together, only competing with other local DZ, and as such the size of the market would dictate the size of the marketing effort required to deal with such competition,

I've said it before, but Proskydiving could make a mint offering secure online payment and reservation solutions to DZ. If they were absent from the equation until a DZs customer hit the 'Buy now' button on the DZ website, at which point Proskyidving took over and handled the administration of the sale, that would a legit business, and one that virtually everyu DZ would take advanage of because it does not come between them and their customers.

I outlined earlier in this thread how such a business could be run on a flat monthly fee, and easily generate upwards of $75,000 a year. That's $75k a year for operating a website, all the while leaving ample time to run CSC and make whatever profits are to be had there. That would be a legitimate business, and that would be an asset to the industry.

Instead, greed has once again been the victor. Doug has set his sights on the high six-figure range far what he wants to extract from this industry per annum, and nothing is going to stop him. Not that fact that all of the money is no longer going to the DZOs who actually provide the service, and rightfully earn it.

Not the fact that with all of that revenue going into his pocket, it's not available for upgrades to tandem and student gear, upgrades to aircraft, or upgrades to the amount of food in the cupboards of some DZO's homes.

None of that matters to Doug becasue he's a greedy parasite, looking to drain this industry of money it can't afford to lose. Some people work their whole lives to make $75k per year, and even though he's got a chance to make that by doing very little work and not interfering with his existing business, he's going to take a pass, and shoot for the big time.

The only difference between Proskydiving and Skyride, is that Doug had the benefit of seeing Skyride's mistakes from the outset. Skyride set the bar for how low you could go, and Doug had the advantage of being able to come in just above that position, and claim to be the 'good guy', and while in some areas he may be a 'better guy' than Skyride, at the end of the day all he did was just barely clear a very, very low hurdle.

Are you still jumping at your home DZ which is a Proskydiving DZ?

If Skyride and Proskydiving are basically the same thing(not my belief) and many people say that they would not jump at a DZ that accepts Skyride, how is it justified to jump at a Proskydiving DZ?

[skydived19006 4]

Except that wouldn't make any sense for people who live anywhere close to the border between their own state and another state. For example, my parents live near the border between Pennsylvania and Delaware. Crosskeys in NJ is one of the closest (if not THE closest) dropzones to them, but would be eliminated from their search based on your suggestion.
Personally, I don't see any issue with this site. They aren't setting up websites for fake dropzones. They're providing a booking service which DZOs can choose to take advantage of or not, depending on if they feel it'd be profitable or not. Yes, they don't list non-affiliated DZs at the top of the page. If they did, there'd be almost no reason to sign up for their service. Presumably, they aren't running a charity for DZOs, so I think that's entirely understandable. And if some other DZOs get together and start a competing skydive booking site, adding some competition to the marketplace and driving down prices, all the better.

Well then why should Cross Keys not simply cut out the middle man and set up their own "competition?" They could simply generate a bunch of "virtual DZs" with names like "Skydive PA", PA skydiving", pick a hundred of the largest cites within 500 miles and be "skydive big city!" Hell, even mix up the pricing, charging more on some sites, it's all good, those "other guys" are simply booking agents working only for X Keys. Same thing that Travelocity, Orbits, etc does, just all done in house. They could even cross list all the virtual DZs, listing each other as both participating, and not participating. Sure, it's all a bunch of deceptive bull shit, but if it increases the bottom line it must be good. It's about time that DZOs woke up and started doing their own "marketing!" If one large DZ could potentially increase the bottom line by say half a million a year by employing a little deception on the ignorant first jump customer, then good for them! It's not about the customer after all, what should the DZO care if they screw the customers, we're in it for the one time first jump student, we don't give a shit about making skydivers, they're just a bunch of whining, bitching, cry babes, always trying to tell us how to run our business! Fuck em all!

I'm watching, and learning, maybe Pro Skydiving is onto something. Do the same sleazy shit, just do a better job of selling it.

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ