horseshoe -> baglock = 1st cutaway

[Jeth 0]

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The other scenario is if U just tuck the flap under without knowing where the bridle is, you won't make contact with the velcro so then it won't be closed very well.

Route the bridle between the side flaps, leaving all the velcro exposed to mate with the main pin cover flap.

Derek

I think it already is under the side flap. Maybe I don't understand what you mean. I wish I had my rig in front of me to look at. Next time I have it I'll take a closer look to see if I can route it a different way to keep it away from the velcro. Thanks.

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[billvon 3,116]

>Is a self pin check adequate?

For me it is.

>Is 99% good enough?

Depends on the failure mode, how often you do it and what the costs of failure are. 99% success rate on main deployment is OK for most skydivers; it is not OK for BASE jumpers.

>Is there any reason not to trust our fellow skydivers?

Some can't gear check rigs. I once saw a jumper pull open a main closing flap and pull the pin all in one fluid motion; fortunately the door was not yet open. Fortunately such people are in the minority.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Is a self pin check adequate?

Yes.

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Is 99% good enough?

No.

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Is there any reason not to trust our fellow skydivers?

Yes.

I have seen and done a lot of pin checks. I ahve never caught something wrong with a pin that couldn't have been caught on the ground. I have never seen anyone catch something on a pin check that couldn't have been caught on the ground.

I do see people brushing their rigs against things as if they didn't have 2 pins holding their container closed on their backs.

Derek

[Hooknswoop 19]

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think it already is under the side flap.

Close the main flaps with the right side, then left side. Then route the bridle on top of the top flap and under the right flap. It won't touch the Velcro then.

Derek

[Jeth 0]

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think it already is under the side flap.

Close the main flaps with the right side, then left side. Then route the bridle on top of the top flap and under the right flap. It won't touch the Velcro then.

Derek

Ok, I get it. I'll try that next time. Thanks.

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[Dougiefresh 0]

Good job saving your own life, Beth. Or should I say good job, PINCHECK!

A hard lesson to learn, but thankfully not as hard as it could have been. Now don't do it again, k?

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams

[Jeth 0]

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Good job saving your own life, Beth. Or should I say good job, PINCHECK!

A hard lesson to learn, but thankfully not as hard as it could have been. Now don't do it again, k?

I knew I could count on you to rub it in, Doug!

Yep, could've been a lot worse. Lesson definitely learned!!

And I will hopefully NOT follow in your footsteps and have a few more cutaways next week. (Sorry, couldn't resist.... )

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[hexadecimal 0]

Glad you're ok, Pincheck

So are you going to demo a Safire2 next week?

[mdrejhon 8]

I have learned to self-pin-check but I want at least one visual inspection by another person (either on the ground or in the air) during at least one of my three pin checks per jump.

Sometimes I am at an uncomfortable position or there's people now less experienced than I am, so I now can "feel" the metal and the bump of a closing loop on both the main and reserve.

Funny thing. I am right handed, but only my left hand can reach all the way to my reserve pin and feeling the metal and feeling the bump of the loop 3/4 of the way up the pin. My right hand reaches one inch short of the reserve pin, so I can only self-pin-check both pins with my left hand. Time for some more stretching exercises

[Jeth 0]

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Glad you're ok, Pincheck

So are you going to demo a Safire2 next week?

Thanks.

I did already! The rig I rented from ParaConcepts had a Safire2 168 in it. I liked it!! I also got to try a Spectre 170 in Sunny's rig. But before I buy anything I gotta try a 150 to see how that is. There are so many canopies out there...

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[Jeth 0]

That is pretty good that U can reach both.

Not that I know anything, but I think an argument could be made that by having another jumper check your pin they can also see if your pc is cocked and your bridle is not mis-routed. You can't do that just by feeling for the loop.

(You did say you do get at least one visual inspection so it sounds like you've got that part covered.

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[HeatherB 0]

I don't worry about having someone check whether or not my PC is cocked. It isn't going to randomly un-cock itself in the plane.

I check my bridle routing and coverage, where the loop is around the pin, my PC, etc. I used to ask for people to check my gear, but nowadays I just check it myself. It's easier and there is more peace of mind.

[Jeth 0]

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I don't worry about having someone check whether or not my PC is cocked. It isn't going to randomly un-cock itself in the plane.

I check my bridle routing and coverage, where the loop is around the pin, my PC, etc. I used to ask for people to check my gear, but nowadays I just check it myself. It's easier and there is more peace of mind.

I was referring to the fact that someone could've done a rushed pack job and forgotten to cock their pc or mis-routed their bridle. (I know someone who did.) If you are confident that you will never do this, then it doesn't apply to you. But I think, especially for rookies, a visual pin check by another jumper will reaffirm that your pin is secure, your pc is cocked and your bridle is good. That can never be a bad thing, for anybody.

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[HeatherB 0]

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I was referring to the fact that someone could've done a rushed pack job and forgotten to cock their pc or mis-routed their bridle. (I know someone who did.) If you are confident that you will never do this, then it doesn't apply to you

It's not that I'm confident that I'll never forget to cock my PC, it's just that I check all that on the ground right before I gear up. I check everything...the window on my bridle, my 3-rings, risers, PC, both pins, my handles, etc.

When I used to pay for packjobs, I always cocked my PC after laying it down, because I was afraid someone would forget that part. I'd uncollapse my slider too. Part of what pushed me to start packing for myself again, was that fear of not knowing what was done or not done to my rig.

Trust me, I'm anal when it comes to my gear.

edit to add: I rec'd a PM about this, and yes, I do check all my handles, 3-rings, chest strap, etc in addition to my main pin and PC again on the way to altitude, as everyone is getting ready. I do practice pulls on my cutaway and reserve handles as well. I don't think anyone who knows me would call me an unsafe jumper.

[kelpdiver 2]

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But I think, especially for rookies, a visual pin check by another jumper will reaffirm that your pin is secure, your pc is cocked and your bridle is good. That can never be a bad thing, for anybody.

Using the visual test, it's hard enough to tell that my PC is cocked when I'm on the ground. How easily does one do that with the person 4 inches in front of them inside a plane? I do the inflation test at least a couple times during packing, but I don't find the color indicator to be all too clear.

Not sure a bad bridle routing would be obvious to me either, esp on a foreign rig. Any good pictures available?

[Superman32 0]

I guess I'm paranoid.
I always get my pin checked before boarding the plane and once again around 9-10k.
Remember that 6 point check they taught you while in AFF? I still do it on the ground and a couple of times in the plane.
I know that my chest strap or my leg straps aren't going to magically mis-route themselves, but if I make it a standard part or my ride to alti, it reduces the chance of missing it.

BTW, Great job in staying calm and performing your EPs and landing safely

Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

[monkycndo 0]

Congrats on keeping cool and doing your EPs. I tend to jump with newer "A"s and ask for a pin check to reinforce the habit for them.

A horseshoe mal is the scariest for me. The way I pack my PC has two benefits. It can only be done with a cocked PC ( no PC in tow) and a premature pin pull will extract the PC, so no horseshoe for me.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[MB38 0]

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Congrats on keeping cool and doing your EPs. I tend to jump with newer "A"s and ask for a pin check to reinforce the habit for them.

A horseshoe mal is the scariest for me. The way I pack my PC has two benefits. It can only be done with a cocked PC ( no PC in tow) and a premature pin pull will extract the PC, so no horseshoe for me.

Do tell...

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[monkycndo 0]

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The way I pack my PC has two benefits. It can only be done with a cocked PC ( no PC in tow) and a premature pin pull will extract the PC, so no horseshoe for me.

Do tell...

Here is the site that shows Brian Germain's method to packing a pilot chute.

www.bigairsportz.com/pilot-chute.php

The first fold can only be done with a PC that has been cocked. If you have a premature deployment, the d bag will extract the bridle and PC instead of the PC being a big lump stuck in the BOC.

His method makes the PC short and fat, and can be tighter in some BOCs making for a harder pull. If you use this method, make a couple test pulls on the ground so you don't have a surprise in the air. If you are free flying, the bridle should be protected or have very little exposed between the BOC and main flap. It's always a good idea to have a rigger take a look just to make sure the method will work with your rig.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[jimmytavino 16]

glad you landed safely

You mentioned a couple of things which got my attention....

First..... the heads UP play by "Al"... that was a good move to get to your Pilot Chute handle and "negate" the horseshoe.... especially since it was done at a high altitude.... If the p c stayed in the pouch,,, AND you then cutaway,,, the RSL would have put your reserve out,,,, while you still had your main, 'nearby'... Granted the cutaway might have extracted the P C, as the risers and dbag left you,,, but the INSTANT reserve container opening could have made it interesting.....
Good Job AL...
2. towing that d bag gave you a great chance to see just how Fast you fall while under that sort of mal,,,, probably Faster than belly to earth freefall, since you're in a stand-up,, with just about ZERO drag....so well done.....
yeah a cutaway main that's still in the bag,, AND is waaay waaay upwind from the DZ... could be anywhere... bummer.... the handle(s) and freebag can be replaced, I guess.. But I'd consider printing some flyers and posting them if the area is residential,,, if the area is wooded or swampy or remote.... then your main might be gone....... If it IS found ,,, hopefully the finder will know that there is a parachuting Center nearby and will return it.. good luck.
jmy

[Dougiefresh 0]

But be sure to do a practice pull on the ground!

My BOC was sewed in such a way that the BG PC packing method... well, let's say it didn't work out all that well for me.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams

[Jeth 0]

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But be sure to do a practice pull on the ground!

My BOC was sewed in such a way that the BG PC packing method... well, let's say it didn't work out all that well for me.

I'm glad you mentioned this, Doug. I was gonna mention that you had a chop due to this packing method so people should make sure they are doing it right.

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[goose491 0]

Well! Congratulations big time!

That's a pretty hairy experience for a first chop (beer!)... and at 57 jumps too? You did fantastic! Thanks for sharing it with us. You write it up very well and I was able to follow you as though it were me.

A couple things:

You mentioned that you didn't want to get a Pin Check for fear that the noob behind you would mess up you flaps. This makes perfect sense but then you go on to say that it's easy for you to check your flaps on that gear. (??) You could have had him check your pin, and then made sure your flap was closed properly.

Many check their own pins, I have figured out how to do it and you can too. I still have someone else check mine 99.9% of the time though.

You may want to ensure your gear is freefly friendly. All kit should be these days really. Velcro is a thing of the past.

No critisisme here now, I am just wondering... after clearing the main, did you consider freefalling a bit more before pulling silver? What ran through your head the moment the main was gone and you were free again?


Again, wonderful job and I'm glad I got to read it from you

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[Jeth 0]

Thanks Jimmy.
Ya, I don't know how it would've gone down if Al hadn't grabbed my hackey. I hope that I would've noticed the horseshoe and then grabbed my hackey myself. But by that time someone could've come in over me or god knows what else - so thank god Al grabbed it when he did. And thank god it came out okay so I didn't have to cutaway with it still in the pouch. And thank god nobody got tangled up in it.

Yep, I've got an ad in the local paper, but I'm not too hopeful. I was near the river so it could easily be in there or in the wooded area along the bank (Or even farther away). Oh well. I'm here so thats the most important thing.

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[Jeth 0]

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A couple things:

You mentioned that you didn't want to get a Pin Check for fear that the noob behind you would mess up you flaps. This makes perfect sense but then you go on to say that it's easy for you to check your flaps on that gear. (??) You could have had him check your pin, and then made sure your flap was closed properly.

Many check their own pins, I have figured out how to do it and you can too. I still have someone else check mine 99.9% of the time though.

You may want to ensure your gear is freefly friendly. All kit should be these days really. Velcro is a thing of the past.

No critisisme here now, I am just wondering... after clearing the main, did you consider freefalling a bit more before pulling silver? What ran through your head the moment the main was gone and you were free again?


Again, wonderful job and I'm glad I got to read it from you

Thanks.
To answer your questions - Yup, I totally could've had him check my pin and then felt back there to make sure the flap was closed. I should've. Thats what I usually do when I do get a pin check anyway. Stupid.

My rig did have mods done to make it FF friendly. It has the bridle cover and all the velcro was removed (except that one piece on the underside of the main pin flap) and it has full riser covers with tuck-tabs. My flaps used to have no tabs and used to have velcro all around the edges to close it. Now the reserve flap has tuck tabs, and the main flap has a tab that tucks under with one piece of velcro.

I heard that from several people about not pulling silver right away. Honestly, the thought did not even cross my mind at the time. But its moot anyway because my rig has an RSL so as soon as I chopped, the reserve came out. If I had been thinking about that, I could've disconnected it and then freefell for a bit. That probably would've been better cuz then I probably could've landed on the airport and I wouldn't have been freezling up there for so long with tired arms. Of course, if I had done that, I probably would've been freaking that whole time I'm falling, worried about my reserve coming out clean. At least this way I knew I had a good reserve right away.

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site