Hey...it might happen?

[fred 0]

Isn't this a whuffo question:
"What happens if your parachute doesn't open?"
"You always have a reserve, and your reserve is packed very carefully by somebody certified by the FAA!"
"What happens if your reserve doesn't open?"
A) "I hope it doesn't, because I've already got this canopy over my head."
B) "Well, then you don't need to buy your rigger that bottle of cuervo."

[relyon 0]

Here's what I'd do:

• Check altitude.



• Identify the malfunction including determining which parachute and the position of all handles. Make the decision to cutaway the reserve.



• Get a firm grip on the hook knife and cut the risers below any hardware (brake toggles, etc). I'd cut the front riser first and then the rear, one complete side first followed by the other. Do not grab anything, though it may be necessary to touch the risers and/or the hook knife with the free hand to identify/guide where to cut.



• Once back in freefall, switch the knife to the other hand or drop it (intentionally or otherwise). Unless it's getting low, take it down a few seconds to get some distance from the reserve mess and some relative wind before deploying the main.



• Land safely. When I'm down to my last parachute, nothing else matters.

A few things to keep in mind:

• Try to keep calm, think clearly, and don't panic. If it's really right out the door at 12000', there's plenty of time. Even if it happens during breakoff there's still a good amount. If there's anything out the fall rate will be slower than terminal, perhaps considerably so.



• Don't deploy the main before cutting away the reserve. At best the additional hardware (risers, lines, etc.) will make cutting away the reserve a lot more difficult and increase the likelyhood of cutting the wrong thing. Prematurely dumping the main should only be a last ditch effort to get something out when really low and still falling.



• Clear the reserve handle if it's still around. I've always held my handles after cutaways, but I'd probably intentionally drop it in this case to keep my hands free for other things.



• Don't worry about the cutaway handle/cables/etc unless it's off the velcro. In that case, reconsider the decision cutaway the reserve as the main is for all purposes cutaway already. I'd be careful not to waste time trying to fix anything in the air.



• As has been mentioned, the good news is that hook knives go through tensioned risers almost effortlessly; the bad news is the world may be rockin' and rollin' at the time.

Bob

[elfanie 0]

Would it not be a good idea to make sure that the cutaway pud is still in place?

I can just see ya up there working to keep a clear head...working to cut away a malfunctioning reserve...you actually get the darn thing cut away cleanly...breathe a sigh of relief in freefall...throw out the PC...feel the bag lift up...

and there goes the main bag with your chute in it...because the cutaway pud had been pulled...

I'd rather land with a malfunctioning something...than land with absolutely nothing over my head. (heck, if there were time I think I"d consider unzipping my jumpsuit and holding onto the arms with one hand and legs with the other and hold that over my head...ANYTHING would be better than NOTHING! )

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Elfanie
My Skydiving Page
Fly Safe - Soft Landings

[ChileRelleno 0]

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Identify the malfunction including determining which parachute and the position of all handles. Make the decision to cutaway the reserve.

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Would it not be a good idea to make sure that the cutaway pud is still in place?

I can just see ya up there working to keep a clear head...working to cut away a malfunctioning reserve...you actually get the darn thing cut away cleanly...breathe a sigh of relief in freefall...throw out the PC...feel the bag lift up...

and there goes the main bag with your chute in it...because the cutaway pud had been pulled...

READ: "and the position of all handles." Prego, its in there!

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[ChileRelleno 0]

Thanks for the reply Relyon,

This is what really makes me love DZ.com, sooo much input, sooo much experince and by putting it all together we can learn sooo much.
By taking all the suggestions of how to deal with a scenario such as this, I now feel that I've the knowledge to capably handle such a malfunction in a better manner that I might have before.

Keep it coming, my thanks to all cause I'd rather "Learn and live than live and learn.".

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[cvfd1399 0]

I could see it in a cartoon. You knife away the maled reserve and pull and main to watch it fly away too.

[gerrcoin 0]

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IMHO I don't think you could hold onto the riser/risers after cutting thru them especially with the average "loaded" reserve (I could be wrong). There is so much tension and the resulting jerk upon cutting would very likely rip them out of your hand while ripping your hand up.

If the canopy is spinning fast(very probable with a mal) then yes I'd have to agree with you there. But even with a reasonable turn rate it should be possible to hold on. Each set of risers support half your weight assuming that you have stopped accelerating. Even in a turn that generates 2g on your body, that's still just your body weight to hold onto (remember the other set is still attached and similarly loaded). Most people should be able to do that for the few seconds that it takes, especially with all that adrenaline that will be pumping through you.IMO.

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Also I forsee having to cut the risers fore and aft indvidually, so thats four cuts to make

Maybe. But if the canopy is not too spread out and the cuts are made fairly close to the harness you should be able to get both in one swipe, assuming sufficient strength. However supporting your weight as I have mentioned would now mean that the risers are no longer under as much tension as before and would be alot harder to cut through cleanly.

[ChileRelleno 0]

It would be a very bad idea IMO to try to hold on the risers, you injure your hand/hands and how are you goint to cutaway the rest of the mess? Regardless of whether or not you could possibly hold onto them its just not a good idea.

I thought asking some of the CRWdogs would get some good input and Relyon answered with some very good input and I take his advice and others with more than a grain of salt. Input about such as how to go about cutting away this mess, advice that concurred with my previous reasoning.

Anyways this is what this site is all about ... Learning! thanks for your input.

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[relyon 0]

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Would it not be a good idea to make sure that the cutaway pud is still in place?

You bet, and that's part of identifying the malfunction. It might not be the reserve. If it's a premature main deployment (eg. getting the BOC handle caught on something on exit) chances are it will just be a long canopy ride, and if it needs to be cut standard emergency procedures apply.

In the first part of my response I assumed the stated case of a reserve deployment on exit with the reserve handle dangling or missing and the cutaway handle still in place. If the cutaway handle was not in place (eg. off the velcro), I'd be looking to see how far off it was. More than an inch or two means the main may well be cutaway and that can't be fixed in freefall - go back to trying to sort out the reserve mess. If the reserve is still fouled as 1000' goes by, toss the main PC and hope for the best (it's obviously not your day).

Bob

[ChileRelleno 0]

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If the reserve is still fouled as 1000' goes by, toss the main PC and hope for the best (it's obviously not your day).

Its obviously not your day. Now there's a understatement

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[diablopilot 2]

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In Reply To
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If the reserve malled and I still had an un-deployed main, given time I'd try to correct the mal. If it became apparent that it was uncorrectable, I would not hesitate to slice the risers.

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Same here, given enough altitude. This thread is good for creating nightmares. Right now I have nothing better to do, so here's what I would (hopefully) do in case of an unsurvivable reserve malfunction:

(1) Check if left cutaway cable is still in riser housing
(2) Check if right cutaway cable is still in riser housing
(3) Check if cutaway handle is still in place
(4) Touch my hand deploy
(5) Check alti
(6) Cutaway the reserve risers (If I only have a plastic knife I might choose to cut the lines rather than the risers. This would take a little longer but I wouldn't want the knife to break half way through.)
(7) Back in freefall switching the knife from right hand to left hand (Lineover on main?)
(8) Deploy main and hope I didn't forget to cock my PC.

Silly Idea if you ask me.

You're going to turn a low speed mal into a high speed mal as soon as you sloce through the first riser group. Then if you loose you knife, break your knife, or can't find one or all of the remaining riseers, you have a probable entanglement scenario.

Go for the "more silk" theory....

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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As has been mentioned, the good news is that hook knives go through tensioned risers almost effortlessly; the bad news is the world may be rockin' and rollin' at the time.

Get yourself a good single blade aluminium body knife.


Still foolish if you ask me.

Loose 2 risers, and now you're in a high speed mal, in a wierd body position. What happens when you can't find the other risers?


If you have access to an intentional cutaway rig, try cutting away only one side. I have. It's a doozie....

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Falko 0]

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You're going to turn a low speed mal into a high speed mal as soon as you sloce through the first riser group.

I thought we were talking high speed mal anyway?
If it was a low speed mal, e.g. something above me that somehow flies, I would not mess with my reserve of course, but throw my PC and hope for a good main behind me.

The picture I had in mind was a spinning/streaming high speed mal (like, reserve torn in pieces by the stabilizer). If at 13k, and given the adrenaline didn't turn my brain into a vegetable, I might take a second to consider what to do before just tossing my PC into the unpredictable crap above me.

The deciding factor here is vertical speed, as I would be afraid the PC will get entangled with the reserve-crap before line stretch. The Pod would get entangled too etc etc, and then I'm definitely fucked. (Well, I say that now, sitting comfortably, but in the very situation I might just panic and toss my PC anyway.)

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Go for the "more silk" theory....

Agreed, in most cases.

This thread was pretty much hypothetical from the start, so let's not take it too serious(ly?).

Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse.
(Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970)

[Edgar 0]

I will go for that. With a low speed mal, the more silk the better. I really can't imagine i would be able to cut 4 risergroups and deploy my main within time.

Anyway hypothetical, I think I would wait to toss my main not just until I reach about 800 ft. It would give it time to inflate before it entangled bad (better momentum by landing?).
Just a thought, maybe the more experienced skydivers can react on this strategie.

Edgar

[BETO74 0]

***"What happens if your reserve doesn't open?"

Answer; You come back here and we will give you a full refund or exchenge it for one that works

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

[BlindBrick 0]

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***"What happens if your reserve doesn't open?"

Answer; You come back here and we will give you a full refund or exchenge it for one that works

Deploy your main, land safely then go find and beat the ever-living shit out of your rigger?

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[piisfish 140]

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Do not try to cut away the reserve! Somebody at my old DZ tried to do that and guess what... half way through he dropped the hook knife, and got allllll kinds of f***ed up.

That is exactly why you should have 2 hook knives (or even more, if you want to).

that is exactly why jump with 2 complete rigs, that's 2 mains, 2 reserves, 2 cypresses, 7 hook knives (just like the number), 4 helmets and 12 dytters
and I also try to get on 2 different planes... at least

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[phoenixlpr 0]

What a ....?
How could you get a license if you are schizophrenic ?

[piisfish 140]

they never asked me... and we never replied

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[phoenixlpr 0]

"Shut up! ALL DO SHUT UP!"

[Erroll 80]

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What a ....?
How could you get a license if you are schizophrenic ?

Simple. (T)he(y) got two.

[relyon 0]

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Get yourself a good single blade aluminium body knife.

I carry two and fortunately have not yet had the occasion to use either.

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Still foolish if you ask me.

Not anywhere near as foolish as dumping a good main into a unclearable malfunctioning reserve at 10000+ feet without making any attempt to get rid of it. You're talking about your life and your last parachute here.

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Loose 2 risers, and now you're in a high speed mal, in a wierd body position. What happens when you can't find the other risers?


If you have access to an intentional cutaway rig, try cutting away only one side. I have. It's a doozie....

I've been in worse. I never said it was easy and I did mention that if you're passing 1000' and still haven't (literally) cutaway the reserve, then pitch the main PC and hope for the best.

For those who think the "more silk" theory is a good plan, think again. You'll end up with two malfunctioned parachutes violently fighting with each other (and possibly you) as the entire mess decends at a rate that will get you seriously fucked up at the very best and it's quite likely you'll die.

Bob

[diablopilot 2]

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For those who think the "more silk" theory is a good plan, think again. You'll end up with two malfunctioned parachutes violently fighting with each other (and possibly you) as the entire mess decends at a rate that will get you seriously fucked up at the very best and it's quite likely you'll die.

I'll agree that it's a crap shoot.

I've seen someone try to cuttaway a malfunctioned reserve, and fail. I also watched them spin in and get seriously fucked up.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[azureriders 0]

I was taught that if you have a two out where your reserve is hanging below you uninflated that you should gather that mess up and tuck it as best possible between your knees before landing.

Now obviously if you are at terminal with a mal reserve that is catching any kind of air at all you are not IMO going to be able to gather up the chute, but if it had indeed just came loose from the tail of a plane, was in such bad shape that it could not inflate and would never be anything but a streamer, and for a few more seconds you have not reached terminal, (although you would before you were finished) would it be possible to gather it up rather than cutting risers with the threat of not finding them etc as listed in other posts. Then deploying the main.

I can see this as a very possible entanglement and IMO not better than cutting, but was wondering would it even be possible to pull in the streamer and hold onto it????????????

[billvon 3,104]

>You'll end up with two malfunctioned parachutes violently fighting
> with each other (and possibly you) as the entire mess decends at a
> rate that will get you seriously fucked up at the very best and it's
> quite likely you'll die.

Perhaps. But that's better than landing under one malfunctioning, violently spinning canopy. Of course the best plan is to avoid landing under ANY malfunctioning, violently spinning canopies.