Public Service Announcement

[davelepka 4]

Just a quick PSA for those who don't know -

Discount certificates from manufacturers have become the de facto boogie door prize, and they are happily accepted by all.

However, there are some jumpers who turn around and try to sell said certificates, which is their right (provided the certificate is transferable). The thing to keep in mind for anyone considering purcahsing such a certificate is the exact nature of the deal.

Most every certificate is for a discount of some sort, let's say $300, off of the retail price of the item. The trick is that in the skydiving gear industry, nodoby pays reatil for anything, as all dealers offer a discount off of the retail price. This isn't a discount for friends or people with 'connections', it's just the way the industry works (friends and 'connections' do get a bigger discount).

So that '$300' off certificate might only save you $50 or $100 of the discounted price of the item. If the winner of such a certificate tries to sell it for $200, claiming you'll still save $100 off of your purchase, that's incorrect, and a good way for a guy to lose $100 or $150 on the deal.

What to do? It's simple do your due dilligence. Get a photo of the certificate in question large enough that you can read all of the fine print. If the certifiacte is indeed tranferrable, then you need to call a dealer or two, and ask them for a quote on the piece of equipment in question and ask them the actual savings the certifiacte will provide.

For many of you, this is old info and almost 'common sense' but for some of the newbies looking to buy new gear, the idea of saving a couple hundred bucks can be very attractive, but I just want to make sure they know the 'real deal' and can be informed consumers.

Caveat emptor.

[virgin-burner 1]

or you're just a nice guy like me, open up a thread in the bonfire, asking for boobie-pictures and the nicest set of boobs provided "wins" the certificate. i didnt have a use at the time for it. but i went ahead and checked with the manufacturer if that was ok.

about two years later, i could have used said certificate myself. my former contact told me he would check with the owner (quite a big name in the sport ) if i still could get that discount. quoting the item with all options, the discount was somewhat close to 1k$.

not being a greedy bastard may pay you back at some time. and it means good karma!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[monkycndo 0]

I won a 50% off certificate for a complete system. It would easily save a jumper somewhere around $1500. Seeing as I wasn't needing a complete rig, made a trade with a newish jumper that was jumping what was basically gutter gear. The deal- She kept the main and I got the almost worthless old container/reserve once her new rig was delivered. I wanted the rig for water jumps to save my normal rig from that wear and tear. She definitely got the better end of the deal $$ wise.

I could have sold the cert for real cash, but figure the trade saved me from having to scramble around to find a rig to jump into the Blue Hole in Belize and maybe a few points deposited in the karma bank account. One of the best deals I've made.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[diablopilot 2]

Note the following:

a) some manufacturers are making the certificates not transferable to cut down on the bullshit trend of people wining a "gift" and making a cheap buck off of it.

b) it's shady bad karma to sell these certificates rather than just passing them on as good karma to someone who could really use them.....

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

b) it's shady bad karma to sell these certificates rather than just passing them on as good karma to someone who could really use them.....

Worth repeating.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Divalent 155]

I'm not sure I get the logic. What is special about the value of a coupon that makes it different (in terms of what one is morally/ethically allowed to do with it) compared to other items of value that someone might win in a drawing? I mean, why would it be ethical to sell an altimeter, or a jump ticket, or a t-shirt, or a massage session, but not a discount coupon? (And would it be ethical for me to trade my coupon for the altimeter that someone else won?) Or perhaps the rule is that any item won in a raffle must be given away if not wanted/needed, regardless of value? (If so, even if I paid for the ticket to enter the raffle?)

[note: I get the point Dave was making, about the true value of a discount coupon. But assuming it was sold for at or below it's real value, what's so special about discount coupons?]

[crotalus01 0]

In about 12 boogies I have attended I have won 2 certificates for discounts - 1 for 45% off a PD canopy and one for 50% off a jumpsuit. I gave them both away as they had expiration dates and I didnt have the money to take advantage of them before they expired.
Personally though, I dont see the problem with selling discount certificates as long as the price is fair (if the certificate was worth $1000 off a rig say, I could see selling it for $200 or so - the buyer would still come out way ahead).

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[popsjumper 2]

IMO, Peter, et. al., it's this:

The manufacturer was kind enough to provide the discount for a specific purpose - to support whatever function it was given to (irrespective of the marketing value).

The recipient got it for the price (if one is involved) of the raffle ticket in support of that function. Since I so strongly embrace the "pay it forward" concept, it's unethical for me to take advantage of the manufacturer's generosity and take advantage of a person who would want to use it by selling it for any more than what it cost me. I would have no problem with someone asking for the price of the raffle ticket but, me, hell I'd just give it away rather than ask even that.

On a more strict approach one could say, since the manufacturer intended it to go to those who supported the function, it's unethical to pass it on to someone who didn't...regardless of any money changing hands or not.

Just my opinion.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[airtwardo 7]

On a more strict approach one could say, since the manufacturer intended it to go to those who supported the function, it's unethical to pass it on to someone who didn't...regardless of any money changing hands or not.

Quote

Yup!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Maksimsf 0]

I was about to buy an 50% off wings few month ago right after AFF, but I did my homework and used a "search" button and found a Bigway's thread with a lot of good info. Right now i see some one selling $400 off Aerodyne canopy for $300. If you go to Square1->Main Parachutes and check their price for a Pilot: AD Pilot 210 - MSRP: $2,058.00 S1 price - $1,850.00
So you pay $300 for a cert and get $400 off MSRP. 2058-400+300=$1958

I still keep my eyes open if 50% off container will pop up in adds for $100, but it's like winning a lottery

Edit: Just find out that Rigs and Things sells articulated Wings for $1372 go figure

[catfishhunter 2]

Quote

Note the following:

a) some manufacturers are making the certificates not transferable to cut down on the bullshit trend of people wining a "gift" and making a cheap buck off of it.

b) it's shady bad karma to sell these certificates rather than just passing them on as good karma to someone who could really use them.....

Next time you win anything please PM me so I can send you my address for you to send it to me at no charge
Seriously WTF. The person that made the financial commitment to enter the raffle can do whatever they please with the item they won. There is no good karma or bad karma. Going by what your saying if someone won a GoPro and they already owned 1 they should just give it away instead of selling it. Your logic is seriously flawed...But if thats how you think, I'm serious next time you win something please send it to me so you have good karma

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[virgin-burner 1]

your logic is flawed; a gopro has a real value, a certificate does not. quite the opposite in fact, you actually have to SPEND money in order to SAVE money spent. and exactly that's where the karma-points come in to play! the money SAVED can be proportionally transferred to karma-points! so if you give away a 50%-discount, it's valuable more karma-points than say a 35%-discount.

get it!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[davelepka 4]

Quote

Seriously WTF. The person that made the financial commitment to enter the raffle can do whatever they please with the item they won.

Indeed, however, the majority of these certificates are door prizes or give-aways for boogies, so there's no 'financial commitment' other than attending the boogie.

On the contrary, if the manufacturer really cares one way or the other about the who the recipient is, they can simply make the certificate out to the winner by name and make it non-transferrable. That leaves the winner to either redeem it, leave it unused, or pull the old trick of 'buying' a container that just happens to be in the size and colors of another jumper (and use that jumpers money as well) and then 'gift' it to said jumper.

Either way, I can't say I care too much about what people do with them, I just want to make sure that sellers and buyers both understand the nature and real value of the certificates.

The example posted upthread is exactly what I was talking about. The $400 coupon has a 'actual' value of only $200 when you factor in the dealer discount. If the seller wants to let it for for $50 or $100, then there is a real savings to the buyer, but in this case they are asking $300 which represents a loss to the buyer.

[rehmwa 2]

karma - another mythical religious belief, based on nonsense and just out there to allow people to judge others or to make themselves feel good

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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(if the certificate was worth $1000 off a rig say, I could see selling it for $200 or so - the buyer would still come out way ahead).

sell for $1001 if you want. Still nothing unethical about two people having a transaction of any kind for any amount. Buyer and seller just need to have their eyes open.

(do the homework. The seller might even have the best of intentions also, but, normally, $$ off of suggested retail isn't a 1 for 1 proposition from getting something from a dealer who usually discounts anyway)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[davelepka 4]

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The seller might even have the best of intentions

Just to be celar, I'm not suggesting that everyone selling these certificates are trying to pull a scam, often times the seller isn't aware of the 'real deal'.

[Divalent 155]

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... The recipient got it for the price (if one is involved) of the raffle ticket in support of that function. Since I so strongly embrace the "pay it forward" concept, it's unethical for me to take advantage of the manufacturer's generosity and take advantage of a person who would want to use it by selling it for any more than what it cost me. I would have no problem with someone asking for the price of the raffle ticket but, me, hell I'd just give it away rather than ask even that. ...

Clear logic, if that is how you would treat everything you won that you didn't want/need. A helmet, or altimeter, or book, or Go Pro memory card, jump ticket, canopy course, etc: all disposed of for at most the cost of your ticket. (Could you trade your newly won altimeter for someone's newly won helmet? How about if it is just like the one someone else won, but this person actually bought the helmet earlier, and is now in the market for an altimeter? And if you give up the sport and sell all your gear, do the items you won in a raffle get priced based on this?)

In my view, the manufacturer was donating a coupon with the expectation that they would have to sell a canopy for $XXX off their list price, and the value of their donation is roughly $XXX minus the usual discount that dealer's offer. Their main motivation was to earn publicity and good will. But if it is not transferable, then the value of their donation is far less. Because it is worth nothing if the winner can't/won't use it. (we're into risk-based pricing here :-)

[billvon 3,114]

>I mean, why would it be ethical to sell an altimeter, or a jump ticket, or a t-shirt, or
>a massage session, but not a discount coupon?

There's not much difference. However, both depend on the situation.

If you got that altimeter (or certificate, or AAD or whatever) from Square One via a raffle or a purchase or whatever, go for it. But if someone gave it to you, or sold it to you very cheaply because they wanted to help you out, it is sorta slimy to resell it.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

>I mean, why would it be ethical to sell an altimeter, or a jump ticket, or a t-shirt, or
>a massage session, but not a discount coupon?

There's not much difference. However, both depend on the situation.

If you got that altimeter (or certificate, or AAD or whatever) from Square One via a raffle or a purchase or whatever, go for it. But if someone gave it to you, or sold it to you very cheaply because they wanted to help you out, it is sorta slimy to resell it.

nonsense

I sold a fridge to afriend for $100. He sold it on craigslist for $200. I tease him about it, but, the second it transferred to him, it was his personal property and he can do whatever he wants with his personal property

I don't believe in selling or giving and then adding a bunch of "string attached" expectations. That's what's slimy.


edit: YMMV, IMHO, etc etc etc

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,114]

>I don't believe in selling or giving and then adding a bunch of "string attached"
>expectations. That's what's slimy.

OK. I've given stuff to people because I was worried about them. I've given almost timed out AAD's to people who didn't have them, older canopies to people who have even worse (i.e. dangerous) canopies, risers to people whose white loop was almost worn through etc. The reason I did it was not to "incur karma" or make a profit; it was worth it to me to help prevent a friend of mine from having a preventable injury or death.

If they then sell the AAD and go back to jumping without one, and went in in a no-pull, I would feel like they had wasted that effort/value I gave them. Its completely up to them, of course, but I guess my expectation is that they would use it for the purpose I intended it.

(Or to put it in colder terms - it's an end user license agreement, although one that is not enforced.)

[rehmwa 2]

you're a good guy, BV

(I'd say that great intentions for a short term risk avoidance is nice. But long term, one wonders if just having their gear grounded so they understand the consequences of neglecting their gear now rather than later, would be more effective.

you can't take care of everyone - they need to learn to take care of themselves or it'll get worse - but it's admirable that you try)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[catfishhunter 2]

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your logic is flawed; a gopro has a real value, a certificate does not. quite the opposite in fact, you actually have to SPEND money in order to SAVE money spent. and exactly that's where the karma-points come in to play! the money SAVED can be proportionally transferred to karma-points! so if you give away a 50%-discount, it's valuable more karma-points than say a 35%-discount.

get it!?

and you are wrong. The manufactuer absolutly puts a value on the GC and writes it off. It has no CASH VALUE just as winning a GoPro has not CASH VALUE meaning you can't take cash "in lieu of"

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

Quote

your logic is flawed; a gopro has a real value, a certificate does not. quite the opposite in fact, you actually have to SPEND money in order to SAVE money spent. and exactly that's where the karma-points come in to play! the money SAVED can be proportionally transferred to karma-points! so if you give away a 50%-discount, it's valuable more karma-points than say a 35%-discount.

get it!?

and you are wrong. The manufactuer absolutly puts a value on the GC and writes it off. It has no CASH VALUE just as winning a GoPro has not CASH VALUE meaning you can't take cash "in lieu of"

apparently, if i've had a certificate for humour, i'd actually PAY you to take it because you're seriously lacking it.

if i'd won another certificate for anything i didnt have a use for, i'd give it away for free again anyway. and my perception would think very lowly of someone else who wouldnt do the same.

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

karma - another mythical religious belief, based on nonsense and just out there to allow people to judge others or to make themselves feel good

Nope. It's for people who have a conscience about how they treat other people. YMMV.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[The_Don 0]

Best post I've seen from you in a while.

I am NOT being loud.
I'm being enthusiastic!