squirrel 0 #1 November 21, 2005 Jumping this weekend, I observed an instructor giving a student a level 4 on AFF. They boared the plane and buckle in. Then, at about 8 K, the instructor stands up, and tightens down his leg straps. Not an additional check adjustment, this was an INITIAL adjustment, as in, he got on the plane WITHOUT FIRST adjusting his rig. As a student, I observed and followed just about everything my instructor did, and this is a bad example to show to a student, in my opinion. I feel that an overkill of safety examples should be demonstrated during instruction, then the student will have an excellent base to start from. Be a good roll model. Just my 2 cents. ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #2 November 21, 2005 Quoteat about 8 K, the instructor stands up, and tightens down his leg straps. Not an additional check adjustment, this was an INITIAL adjustment, as in, he got on the plane WITHOUT FIRST adjusting his rig. Well, when you jump all day, all weekend, you tend to do this just for comfort. I fasten my leg straps, but leave them a bit loose at first. However, they're snug enough to jump in an emergency. Then at 9K or so I snug them down really tight, the way I like them in freefall. The problem is that if I did that "really tight" from the start on the ground, my legs would probably be numb from lack of circulation by the time I got to jump run. I don't really consider that a bad example, just a necessity for frequent jumpers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #3 November 21, 2005 I once filmed a guy who waited unitl pull-time to tighten his legstraps. He was an AFF-I, and one day, after the student had pulled (I'm on back filming the canopy opening) I look over to see him reach down, and grab a stap in each hand, cinch them donwn, then toss out his PC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #4 November 21, 2005 I met a guy that was filming tandems and exited without his chest strap done... he finally got it routed/cinched down about the time his Cypres fired (or so the story went, he may have just pulled silver). I bet it's one hell of a video. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #5 November 21, 2005 I agree that teaching by example is a good thing. We're all monkeys, and that means we tend to do what we see. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jasonRose 0 #6 November 21, 2005 Do what I say not what I do!!! If your intructor smoked a big bag of weed while going to alti would you join him??? Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #7 November 21, 2005 QuoteDo what I say not what I do!!! If your intructor smoked a big bag of weed while going to alti would you join him??? Poor comparison, there is a huge difference between setting a good example where skydiving is concerned and illegal drug use while on the job. No, I wouldn’t join him but I would ride the airplane down - have a talk with the DZO and send a report to the USPA, the FAA and if the DZO didn’t fire him immediately contact the local paper and TV news and picket the DZ in front of the news camera crew when they showed up, contact the local police, the governor and the president of the freaking United States if I had to. Another words, I would do everything in my power to stop him just like I would do anything in my power to stop a child molester if I knew what he was doing to children… Am I against to child molesters? Totally… Am I against weed heads? Not at all, but not on the job, just like I wouldn’t want my doctor to perform surgery on me if he were under the influence of drugs or alcohol…Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #8 November 21, 2005 QuoteI agree that teaching by example is a good thing. We're all monkeys, and that means we tend to do what we see. Someone talking about me? Just completed my coach course and one point pressed was to always lead by example. Students notice what we do. I don't make a huge number of jumps each day, but my rig is pretty comfortable and get the rig adjusted on the ground just fine.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #9 November 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteat about 8 K, the instructor stands up, and tightens down his leg straps. Not an additional check adjustment, this was an INITIAL adjustment, as in, he got on the plane WITHOUT FIRST adjusting his rig. Well, when you jump all day, all weekend, you tend to do this just for comfort. I fasten my leg straps, but leave them a bit loose at first. However, they're snug enough to jump in an emergency. Then at 9K or so I snug them down really tight, the way I like them in freefall. The problem is that if I did that "really tight" from the start on the ground, my legs would probably be numb from lack of circulation by the time I got to jump run. I don't really consider that a bad example, just a necessity for frequent jumpers. That's the lamest excuse I've ever heard. You jump a Racer! Do you really expect anyone to believe it's not comfortable? Was it built for a 4'8" 85 lb. girl or something? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #10 November 21, 2005 QuoteDo what I say not what I do!!! If your intructor smoked a big bag of weed while going to alti would you join him??? nah, i'll be doing some crack instead ________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #11 November 21, 2005 QuoteWell, when you jump all day, all weekend, you tend to do this just for comfort. I don't really consider that a bad example, just a necessity for frequent jumpers. This is a very good example of how one person’s opinion is another person’s load of complete crap… I have jumped very frequently (every day the plane is flying) for over 5 years as a full time camera flyer and USPA Solo Freefall Instructor at a very busy DZ. There is EVERY reason to get on the airplane completely ready to make your pre-planned exit from altitude ESPECIALLY when you are an instructor jumping with a student. Squirrel and I could not be more likeminded concerning the following comment he made – “I feel that an overkill of safety examples should be demonstrated during instruction, and then the student will have an excellent base to start from.” And I hope that if he is endeavoring to obtain a solo freefall instructional rating one day in the future that he stay on his path of being an excellent minded individual and not get lost in the quagmire of mediocrity that is the mindset of so many well intentioned under trained and unprepared skydivers out there. Leaders leading by good example is the cornerstone of good leadership. I have worked with very fine instructors whom I respect deeply, who are more experienced than I, overall better instructors than I have become yet but do not take leading by example to the extremes I do (like having my students pin check me before exit etcetera) but I have little respect for the instructors out there that are lost in mediocrity who do not teach by example whatsoever. Fortunately I work for a DZO that expects his instructors to lead by example, to be through in their teaching practices and adhere to the guidelines and reccomendatins for safety that the USPA suggests and the DZ policies demand... Good posting Squirrel… QuoteThe problem is that if I did that "really tight" from the start on the ground, my legs would probably be numb from lack of circulation by the time I got to jump run. Perhaps you should get a rig that fits properly... Of course this is just my opinion - I could be wrong... Make it a great day everyone…Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #12 November 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteDo what I say not what I do!!! If your intructor smoked a big bag of weed while going to alti would you join him??? nah, i'll be doing some crack instead Good luck getting to jump 17... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #13 November 21, 2005 QuoteThere is no reason to get on the airplane completely ready to make your pre-planned exit from altitude ESPECIALLY when you are an instructor jumping with a student. I think you're missing a "not" in there. "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #14 November 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteThere is no reason to get on the airplane completely ready to make your pre-planned exit from altitude ESPECIALLY when you are an instructor jumping with a student. I think you're missing a "not" in there. There is EVERY reason to get on the airplane completely ready to make your pre-planned exit from altitude ESPECIALLY when you are an instructor jumping with a student. Better? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #15 November 21, 2005 >Well, when you jump all day, all weekend, you tend to do this just for comfort. I used to do 25 jumps a weekend, a combination of AFF and tandem. I've also regularly spent 45 minutes climbing to altitude in a variety of slow aircraft, from C182's to C-130's. I didn't need to keep anything looser than I needed it for exit. And I know tandem rigs are less comfortable than sport rigs. Tighten your legstraps or not, but "my legs will go numb!" is not a reason frequent jumpers need to keep them loose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #16 November 21, 2005 Another point. It is rude to stand up on a crowded airplane and finish putting on you rig and booties. It shows that the jumper has no concern to other people. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #17 November 22, 2005 Boy am I glad I don't have to worry about having a set of balls to deal with between my leg strapsMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #18 November 22, 2005 thank you mykel. and thank you for sending the video last year. yep, its me. ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #19 November 22, 2005 i posted this in the morning and just got home to check the feedback. at least i didnt get totally flamed for being a safety oriented person. i just think as a leader, people should lead right. ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #20 November 22, 2005 QuoteWas it built for a 4'8" 85 lb. girl or something? And did she leave her number on the reserve data card? -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jasonRose 0 #21 November 22, 2005 You know a child molester with a big bag of weed?I'm just pulling your chain didn't mean any offense. I agree with leading by example but I also agree that people should know right from wrong and should take control of there own actions. Just because one of my instructors is a crazy ass doesn't mean that I,m going to follow their example. Now if an intructor was a child molester, I think they would have a nice trip out of the plane with out a rig. Edit to add: The original post was to see if you smoke weed. Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #22 November 22, 2005 Quotethank you mykel. and thank you for sending the video last year. yep, its me. No worries, email if you want to talk about anything personal anytime... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWPoul 1 #23 November 22, 2005 QuoteDo what I say not what I do!!! If your intructor smoked a big bag of weed while going to alti would you join him??? It he has BIG bag I believe he should share it with the others in that load... yah, I wanna be in that load ________________________________________________ Why drink and drive if you can smoke and fly...Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #24 November 22, 2005 QuoteBoy am I glad I don't have to worry about having a set of balls to deal with between my leg straps Does that mean like in never?SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #25 November 22, 2005 QuoteQuoteBoy am I glad I don't have to worry about having a set of balls to deal with between my leg straps Does that mean like in never?Sparky I have boosoms, so it is hard on top and down below... Hope I don’t start lactating... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
