Viking 0 #1 November 28, 2005 http://www.flickr.com/photos/redphoto/sets/1478747/ Ok here is the deal. Myself and a buddy from work went down to San Diego today (27th) to get some jumpin in. He was gonna do his aff lvl 3 and 4 and i was gonna do some solo tracks to play with my birdman pantz. We got on the first load of the morning. I got out first opened right into line twists (the whole bag spun up) but kicked um out and landed fine. I gather my stuff up and go stand next to the two instructors to watch them land the students that were on the load. My buddy scott was under a manta 288 was coming in on final looking good. The instructor who will remain nameless told him to flare way high (about 20 feet) Scott flared to about half brakes maybe a little more. The instructor kept telling him to hold the flare but he let up the toggles slightly and the canopy dove towards the ground and the resulting impact broke both his tibia and fibula in his right leg. The response from the staff of Skydive San Diego was instant. And I just got a call from him. He is in surgery now becoming a member of the metal club and might need an external fixator. So a lesson to all you AFF students out there Flare completely and Do not let those toggles up!! (edited by poster's request)I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daniel_owen_uk 0 #2 November 28, 2005 Way to make me cringe on a monday morning, done a fair bit of high flaring myself, but never let up. Hope he recovers quickly. Damn that must have hurt!__________________ BOOM Headshot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #3 November 28, 2005 That sucks for your mate . Parhaps rather than "NEVER let the toggles up if you flare high" the lesson should be "Listen to your instructors". GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #4 November 28, 2005 Been there, Done that. "If you don't have it in your head, you are going to have it in your leg....." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spenck 0 #5 November 28, 2005 im currently doing my AFF (up to stage 4) and ive flared a little too early twice (was okay though, landed once on my feet and the other used PLF/PLR) but the guys keep reinforcing the importance of this, so thanks for sharing - visual reinforcement will stick clearer in my mind -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The day you were born you were born free, that is your privilege" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #6 November 28, 2005 I seem to have the opposite problem of flaring too low and then instead of PLFing (mental block - I know I should) I lift my legs up and that extra couple of feet is enough for a very graceful slide on my legs, bum. Yes I know about tailbone etc but its a mental thing. My brain says, fall over or sit down. Hmm, ill sit down please Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #7 November 28, 2005 ya i'v flared slightly low a couple times and had to suck the landing gear up.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #8 November 28, 2005 Quote visual reinforcement will stick clearer in my mind the very reason i posted up the pictures. I'm a visual learner and knew they would help some student out there. I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #9 November 28, 2005 Quotethe very reason i posted up the pictures. I'm a visual learner and knew they would help some student out there. Yeah, but it must be kinda cool to have your own xray collection Seeing them just makes me want to get my own. In the same way that a racing driver isnt a racing driver until hes rolled a car Note: I am of course joking and do not want to injure myself or suggest anyone else does the same just to get a wicked xray collection Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #10 November 28, 2005 Did your friend have his feet & knees together, or his legs apart, at landing? A general comment, which may or may not apply to your friend's situation: I wonder how many student leg injuries might be prevented or made less serious if new-student jumpers still wore above-the-ankle boots and kept their feet & knees tightly together at landing for their first several jumps, at least until they start getting used to landings? Oh, well, but boots aren't done anymore, and I see plenty of new students landing with their feet apart. Seems to me you lose a lot of ankle & knee support, and overall shock-absorbency, when a student's legs are apart instead of together - but that's just my opinion, and I'm not an instructor, so maybe I'm full of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #11 November 28, 2005 Ummmmmm, PLF?Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #12 November 28, 2005 PLF! A recent AFF student (next to last AFF jump) did that (landed on butt instead of PLFing) and she crushed L-1 and split L-3 in two. PLF! steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #13 November 28, 2005 QuoteDid your friend have his feet & knees together, or his legs apart, at landing? he attempted a plf but yes his feet and knees were slightly apart.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ncfitzge 0 #14 November 28, 2005 Ya, my landing suck too. I always seem to flare to low or not able to finish it all the way. So I end up with a long run and slide in on my knee's. Ya I really need to go to a canopy school...#148 Sonic Scrat "Have you ever kissed a rabbit between the eyes?" Woodpecker pulling out his pants pockets to the waitress Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #15 November 28, 2005 We had a student this weekend that had a high flare on the first load. I thought we were going to see something similar but he held the flare and had a not so pretty landing but nothing broken. He made another one that day and did much better... The pic is one I took standing on the hill looking over the landing area and the trees in the background are lower then the landing field but the flare is very high non the less... It looks much higher in the pic then it really was but still WAY HIGH.. End resultis confirmation yet again on the thread title Scott"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #16 November 28, 2005 I hope your right because that looks very high! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #17 November 28, 2005 QuoteI seem to have the opposite problem of flaring too low and then instead of PLFing (mental block - I know I should) I lift my legs up and that extra couple of feet is enough for a very graceful slide on my legs, bum. Yes I know about tailbone etc but its a mental thing. My brain says, fall over or sit down. Hmm, ill sit down please You might be able to train yourself out of the mental block. Just go outside and do a lot of PLFs until your brain gets used to doing them. You're likely to have a really bad landing at some point and reacting with a PLF will probably save some bones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joellercoaster 6 #18 November 28, 2005 I saw a fellow AFF-1 student do exactly as described here. To be fair to her instructors, they had spent quite a long time telling us not to panic if we flared too high and to just hang on with the brakes down, then PLF (which we'd also spent about an hour doing nothing but); you Just Can't Stall A Navigator. She just had a moment of madness I guess and let it back to full drive. Fortunately nothing broken, though her back took a beating, and she was sporting enough to buy beer that night for her ambulance ride. Haven't seen her since, but I hope she kept going...-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #19 November 28, 2005 QuoteParhaps rather than "NEVER let the toggles up if you flare high" the lesson should be "Listen to your instructors". Agreed."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman32 0 #20 November 28, 2005 QuoteParhaps rather than "NEVER let the toggles up if you flare high" the lesson should be "Listen to your instructors". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Agreed. People are fallible. Physics isn't Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #21 November 28, 2005 ... first time I did that, I herniated a disc in my lower spine. It took me a couple of years to get back in the air and it still gives me the occasional twinge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #22 November 28, 2005 i always get in the plf position, even if i don't need to actually do a PLF landing, i land standing up with legs tight together, bent at the knees________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #23 November 28, 2005 PLFing seems hard to do when flaring. my natural insticnt is to bend mylegs and land on em. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brianfry713 0 #24 November 28, 2005 You can be ready to PLF on every landing. Keep you feet and knees together, legs and knees slightly bent, then land feet first. If you're coming in softly, stand up. If something at all goes wrong, PLF.BASE 1224, Senior Parachute Rigger, CPL ASEL IA, AGI, IGI USPA Coach & UPT Tandem Instructor, PRO, Altimaster Field Support Representative Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #25 November 28, 2005 >my natural insticnt is to bend mylegs and land on em. Most natural instincts in skydiving are wrong. Until you get 'new' instincts, those old ones can really mess you up. Guard against them! Some that come to mind are: -reaching out to 'break your fall' -trying to "get your feet under you" in freefall -reaching for grips -reaching for the ground -flaring as the ground approaches All perfectly natural and understandable - but all wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites