Tylerg.1 0 #1 February 17, 2013 Hello, I was recently looking into jump pilot positions around the U.S and i came across some companies that were willing to hire me, with my total time being below 500 hours. The companies that were willing to hire me were uninsured companies. I was curious as to some of the risks and threats as to flying for an uninsured skydive operations. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vpjr 18 #2 February 17, 2013 What kind of insurance were you looking for. There are all kinds from the aircraft hull, slip and fall for the customers, workmans compensation, unemployment? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #3 February 17, 2013 If you mean that the DZ has no liability insurance, then you are talking about every DZ in the US. Some of them have liability insurance on the plane, for coverage if the plane crashes into someone's house or something like that. But overall liability? That just isn't there. And as the jump pilot (or packer or rigger or instructor or anything) you are potentially at risk for being sued if something "bad" happens. Normally, all those people are included in the waiver. I would strongly suggest reading it very carefully. One thing to keep in mind though: As a pilot with less than 500 hours looking for a job flying jumpers, I kinda doubt that you have very much for assets. Which makes you far, far less of a target for the ambulance chasers."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #4 February 17, 2013 OK, let's say you're concerned about liability insurance. There's no single correct answer to your question. The potential legal risks to you in the event of an incident may depend on a number of factors- would you be a W-2 employee, or an independent contractor? Do you own much in the way of personal assets that someone can go after? If you're married, do you live in a state where someone can, or cannot, go after property you own together with your spouse (this varies from one state to another)? Would you either work in, or do you live in, a state that permits garnishment of wages to satisfy a court judgment (some states do, some do not)? Is there "pilot's liability insurance" available to you, and if so, can you afford it? Frankly, your best source of information would be a lawyer who practices in the state where you live and/or would work. If you take advice from someone who is not a lawyer (regardless of their other experience), or even a lawyer unfamiliar with the applicable state's laws, you could find yourself harmfully led astray. (I'm a lawyer, but this is why I'm giving you questions and not answers.) Please keep this in mind when reading other responses you may get. PS - in response to something someone else has said: even if you don't have much in the way of personal assets, a court judgment can follow you around, everywhere in the country, for the rest of your life, with various consequences. You should talk to a lawyer about this, too. (It's much like seeking medical advice: go to the proper source.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #5 February 17, 2013 To clarify a little of what I said, and to address something Andy said: A person with little or no assets is less of a target for the ambulance chasers. That makes it a little less likely that you would be sued in the event of an accident. BUT... If you are sued, it will cost. A lot. And any judgement against you will follow you around until it's satisfied. And, AFAIK, there isn't any special "pilot's liability" insurance that I know of. Standard homeowner's liability (with a fairly large umbrella policy) will cover this sort of thing, up to it's limits. But unless you have really high limits, you are exposing yourself to a certain amount of risk. And Andy is absolutely right. If you want real answers, talk to an insurance agent or a lawyer. My advice here is worth just about what you paid for it. Maybe not even that much."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,483 #6 February 17, 2013 Andy sometimes forgets to share with new folks that he's one of our resident attorneys.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #7 February 17, 2013 Quote Andy sometimes forgets to share with new folks that he's one of our resident attorneys. Although in my post above I did share it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #8 February 17, 2013 QuoteStandard homeowner's liability (with a fairly large umbrella policy) will cover this sort of thing, up to it's limits. Not to be a pain in the ass (ha), but some do and some don't. Many HO and/or renters' insurance policies have exclusions that specifically say that they do not cover, for example, vehicular liability, etc. (Kind of similar to the way most HO policies specifically exclude flood coverage, etc.). So the lesson on that point is to ask your insurance agent, since every policy is different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #9 February 17, 2013 QuoteQuoteStandard homeowner's liability (with a fairly large umbrella policy) will cover this sort of thing, up to it's limits. Not to be a pain in the ass (ha), but some do and some don't. Many HO and/or renters' insurance policies have exclusions that specifically say that they do not cover, for example, vehicular liability, etc. (Kind of similar to the way most HO policies specifically exclude flood coverage, etc.). So the lesson on that point is to ask your insurance agent, since every policy is different. Ok, thank you. Mine does. I asked my agent. And I specifically said that the OP should ask someone who knows this stuff for a real answer/"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,466 #10 February 17, 2013 Hi Andy, Quote HO policies specifically exclude flood coverage It is also my understanding that some HO policies will not cover any employment, self-employment, home business, etc. My insurance agent once said 'We'll know what your policy covers when you make a claim.' JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tylerg.1 0 #11 February 17, 2013 I would be a W-2 employee for a DZ company, the plane itself does not have insurance, and in terms of assists i do not have much. So if something did happen would i be responsible for the damage to persons or property, or would the company? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #12 February 17, 2013 QuoteI would be a W-2 employee for a DZ company, the plane itself does not have insurance, and in terms of assists i do not have much. So if something did happen would i be responsible for the damage to persons or property, or would the company? It really depends on too many variable factors to give you a single certain answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #13 February 17, 2013 Quote Hi Andy, Quote HO policies specifically exclude flood coverage It is also my understanding that some HO policies will not cover any employment, self-employment, home business, etc. My insurance agent once said 'We'll know what your policy covers when you make a claim.' JerryBaumchen[/reply Bingo,!!!! Your insurance agent wasn't he was honest. Everyone should read the fine print in their polices and when they see the ambiguous language. The insurance company gets to decide, unless your ready to go the lawyer route. Remember the cock up after Katrina? R. R. IOne Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,483 #14 February 18, 2013 Quote Quote Andy sometimes forgets to share with new folks that he's one of our resident attorneys. Although in my post above I did share it. WHOOPSIE!!!!! Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vpjr 18 #15 February 18, 2013 The aircraft owner may not have hull insurance for the aircraft but may still have liability. ( To my understanding) This Liability only covers people and assets not involved with skydiving. Like the pilot taxis the plane into a Non skydiving aircraft on ramp, Crashes into a house at the end of the runway, the pilot or jumpers are not covered. This insurance is relatively cheap $1800 -$2500 depending on the 350K or 1 Mil. Most airports require liability and pressure the owner to show proof. If the owner stops paying the insurance, the insurance company notifies the airport the where the plane is based. The airport manager comes over and says he got a letter and the aircraft owner gets on the phone and pays the premium. The hull insurance can be 5-6% of the insured value per year on smaller planes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #16 February 18, 2013 Quote Quote Andy sometimes forgets to share with new folks that he's one of our resident attorneys. Although in my post above I did share it. And even though you are, we still love you, man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverMike 5 #17 February 18, 2013 If you are a member of AOPA, you can sign up for their legal plan at $39.00 a year to get answers to your questions. https://pilot-protection-services.aopa.org/#!/basic-level-coverage For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 5 #18 February 20, 2013 I have owned two airplanes and have never been asked or required to have insurance by an airport/airport manager.Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vpjr 18 #19 February 20, 2013 At a muni or state airport I am sure if you asked you would find that Liability Insurance is required. If the airport manager is busy doing other things than being a cop and asking doesnt mean it isnt required to protect the airport or other tenants from an accident. I had to carry 1 Mil liability to land at Military bases. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldwomanc6 60 #20 February 20, 2013 Quote Quote Quote Andy sometimes forgets to share with new folks that he's one of our resident attorneys. Although in my post above I did share it. And even though you are, we still love you, man. Andy's avatar is a little clue, too. Subtle, though. lisa WSCR 594 FB 1023 CBDB 9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
