Pressure Knots & Beeswax

[kschilk 0]

My great-great Grandpa once told me..."Sonny....stupidity, is like innocence. Ain't no point in bein' stupid, lessin' ye' kin prove it....and beyond any reasonable doubt!" I intend to do, just that.
I don't understand, exactly....what a pressure knot actually is, what causes them, prevention, etc. and why it seems that tandems are so prone to that particular malfunction.

Also, during the day to day care and feeding of a typical rig.....what are the guidelines regarding the application of beeswax? I know the tech is constantly changing, what little info that is readily available may be stale. Is there a better alternative? Any special precautions?
I would greatly appreciate some credible info, on the subjects.

"T'was ever thus."

[JohnMitchell 16]

I'm not a rigger, but I'll kick this off and maybe a rigger will chime in and give a "pro" point of view. I like to wax my steering lines from the toggles up about 2-3 feet. That helps to control the wear fuzz the lines seem to get. However, it does make the lines stiff and sticky, and could make it harder to release the brakes. Use caution. It's easy to have a rigger just replace the bottom 4-5 feet of steering line occasionally. Maintenance money well spent.

The pressure knots you speak of are also known as tension knots. As your canopy deploys, any slack lines are free to blow and twist in the wind. When the canopy opens , everything gets real tight real fast. If the looping of slack lines is severe enough, you have an instant knot.

Prevention? Stow your lines securely when you pack so that they deploy in an orderly fashion, instead of just dumping out in a big pile (ask about "line dump")

[AFFI 0]

Never put beeswax on my lines, never even heard of such a thing.

A few years back we were having tension knots on some of our tandem canopies and some bozo had the brilliant idea of putting a bunch of baby powder on the lines - effectively sandblasting the canopies with every opening. Fortunately someone came to thier senses and stopped this practice quickly. I believe that John has it correct – proper packing on the ground might save you problems in the air…

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[airtwardo 7]

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I like to wax my steering lines from the toggles up about 2-3 feet. That helps to control the wear fuzz the lines seem to get.

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Because it's sticky it also seems to pick up dirt and grit that IMO adds wear to the lines.

At the beginning of the year, I spray silicone on the lines from top to bottom. It doesn't seem to have any adverse effect or pick up any extra grit during packing. It makes the brakes release smoothly and less wear is evident from the slider coming down.

I also spray my bag of rubber bands...it makes them last 5 times longer.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[kschilk 0]

To all replies, so far:
I myself, have never expreienced the problem (tension knot) but there was a rash of it with the tandems, at my dz.....it was a year or so ago. That's why I always wondered about it. I've had 1 reserve ride and although it wasn't actually packing-related or a bad experience, I intend for it to be the last. I side pack, I'm not comfortable with PRO. I'm really quite anal, about the whole thing. I fear what I don't know.
As for the beeswax, I currently only put a thin film....around the inside edges of my grommets, every few jumps. I had seen (somewhere) that it was sometimes used to lube the plastic cables but I'm afraid of the dirt thing....like airtwardo said. I was tempted to use it on the lines....mostly at the cascades, ever so slightly. I had thought briefly about the steering lines but didn't like the liklihood of stiffness, as JM stated.
Sorry....but I just don't know, about the silicone spray. It's probably ok but I'd have to have some definite proof of no adverse effects, on the integrity and life of the lines before I'd do it. It sounds like plausible rig pm.
I had heard about the babypowder thing, sounds like a "momentary lapse of reason"....but the image in my mind, of the first opening.....hilarious! Anybody watching, probably thought we lost another shuttle!
I appreciate all the positive input, so far!

"T'was ever thus."

[airtwardo 7]

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but I just don't know, about the silicone spray

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It's used on the Cypress loop...as per factory recommendation...and I've been doing it for a good 20 years without any problems...in fact I believe I get an additional 2-300 jumps per line set.

I spray my toggle brake keepers and brake loop around every 20 jumps and have NEVER had a brake release or wear problem.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JohnMitchell 16]

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At the beginning of the year, I spray silicone on the lines from top to bottom. It doesn't seem to have any adverse effect or pick up any extra grit during packing. It makes the brakes release smoothly and less wear is evident from the slider coming down.

Thanks for that. I might give it a try. I haven't had a real problem with dirt getting picked up on the beeswax, but I'm landing and packing in grass. The biggest contributor to wear is the velcro on the risers. The beeswax really helps with that. Next rig will be velcro free, so soon it will not be a problem.

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[JohnMitchell 16]

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. I've had 1 reserve ride and although it wasn't actually packing-related or a bad experience, I intend for it to be the last.

There's only one way to guarantee that. Quit jumping!

[JohnRich 4]

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As for the beeswax, I currently only put a thin film....around the inside edges of my grommets, sometimes used to lube the plastic cables... tempted to use it on the lines... mostly at the cascades... I had thought briefly about the steering lines...

With only 105 jumps, you shouldn't be considering such things, without first asking the advice of a rigger.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Stupid question here.What is on the lines when they are new?When they are stiff and smooth.

.

[Michele 1]

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what are the guidelines regarding the application of beeswax?

Curious as to both where you learned this (I've never heard of it) and also what your rigger says.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[kschilk 0]

[With only 105 jumps, you shouldn't be considering such things, without first asking the advice of a rigger.

[kschilk 0]

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what are the guidelines regarding the application of beeswax?

Curious as to both where you learned this (I've never heard of it) and also what your rigger says.

Ciels-
Michele

When I bought my rig (used), I consulted a rigger about the oiling of the emergency handle cables, as per the Skydiver's Handbook. I have been a mechanic for over 35 years, 5 of that....as an airframer, for the US Navy. Plenty of experience with "exotic" materials, forces me to instinctively question certain combinations of materials and/or lubricants. Plastics are a strange animal, the various types have specific properties and applications....some do not react well to oils, solvents or fuels. Some will dissolve, some become brittle, some lose their rigidity and caution should always be exercised.
Anyway, the first rigger suggested beeswax. He also suggested the slight film, around the grommets. I believe he also was the one who told me about the cascades but I honestly can't swear to it. The next rigger I asked, said the cables should be absolutely clean....no lubrication, whatsoever. He might have been the one who told me to wax the cascades.
I jumped in Russia, with a (supposedly) vintage WW1 round. It was a 100 meter static line thing, from an AN-2. When we were packing, I saw a few of my Russkie buds putting wax on the lines. These things were huge, though....like the mooring lines on an aircraft carrier! I didn't speak the language so I didn't get to ask many questions.

"T'was ever thus."

[CSpenceFLY 1]

My guess is the wax protects the lines from the slider grommets and the heat produced during opening.


.

[mattjw916 2]

Just jump a canopy with a highly-abrasion resistant, dimensionally stable, cascade-free lines and this whole conversation is moot. *Cough* Nitro, Blade, or Nitron *cough*

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Michele 1]

Thanks for the info...I still am unclear as to what your rigger says; you know, the one who repacks your rig and does regular maintenance on it.

I think, for me, if my rigger said "do this" or "don't do that", then that's what I'm going to do. The person who does most of my repacks is someone who I trust with my life (obviously) and not only my rig, but I jump with him when I can.

So, the one who you trust your shit with, what does he say? Not just "a" rigger, but the one who works on your kit.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[kschilk 0]

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Thanks for the info...I still am unclear as to what your rigger says; you know, the one who repacks your rig and does regular maintenance on it.

I think, for me, if my rigger said "do this" or "don't do that", then that's what I'm going to do. The person who does most of my repacks is someone who I trust with my life (obviously) and not only my rig, but I jump with him when I can.

So, the one who you trust your shit with, what does he say? Not just "a" rigger, but the one who works on your kit.

Ciels-
Michele

These are "my riggers". At my dz, there are several. I drop off the rig and it goes to the first available rigger, for repack. I always ask for a complete inspection of everything, including my main canopy. I only consulted with 2 of them, about this particular subject. One says "do this"....the other says "don't do that".
I'm probably making mountains out of molehills but my gear's gotta' last. I love the sport but I'm one of the seemingly few, who has that annoying ailment often referred to as "responsibilities". Most of my income goes to kids, grandkids, etc. and there's not much left for jumping...let alone gear replacement. Proper gear care is an important issue, with me.

"T'was ever thus."

[Eule 0]

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Also, during the day to day care and feeding of a typical rig.....what
are the guidelines regarding the application of beeswax? I know the tech
is constantly changing, what little info that is readily available may be
stale.

You may have tried this, but how about looking at the canopy manuals
that some manufacturers have on their Web sites, or asking the
manufacturers directly? Of course, it can be argued that a manufacturer
has a disincentive to tell you how to make your stuff last longer, but in
my limited experience, you can get an explanation for most things in
skydiving, if you just ask.

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

[airtwardo 7]

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[With only 105 jumps, you shouldn't be considering such things, without first asking the advice of a rigger.

Sorry, man! I hit my head, really hard....when I fell from the turnip truck....on my way home, from the hospital....after just being born, early this morning. Jeez, gimme' a break!
With even 15,105 jumps, I wouldn't consider ANY things....without consulting a rigger. I have done that, that's why I asked it here. I'm getting a different story....every time. Every rigger seems to have a different opinion and some of it conflicts with common sense.
I was unaware that there was a minimum jump number requirement, imposed on the care and maintenance of one's gear. I humbly apologize, I didn't mean to offend anyone.

[Michele 1]

Ah, I see...thanks for the explanation. It looks like you really are in between two riggers. I also understand about making your kit last; I'm in the same boat that way. Good luck, then. Sorry I haven't anything to add pro or con...maybe after the weekend some of the regular posters who are also riggers will chime in.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[riggerrob 643]

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Stupid question here.What is on the lines when they are new?When they are stiff and smooth.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Cordage mills apply a variety of latex, resin or Teflon coatings to new lines. Coatings make lines easier to sew, more slippery and more durable.

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[airtwardo 7]

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Stupid question here.What is on the lines when they are new?When they are stiff and smooth.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Cordage mills apply a variety of latex, resin or Teflon coatings to new lines. Coatings make lines easier to sew, more slippery and more durable.

***

Okay here's a question...as I said above, I use silicone spray on my lines and have for years with good results...what do you think about using an aftermarket Teflon spray?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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[riggerrob 643]

At the beginning of the year, I spray silicone on the lines from top to bottom. It doesn't seem to have any adverse effect or pick up any extra grit during packing. It makes the brakes release smoothly and less wear is evident from the slider coming down.

I also spray my bag of rubber bands...it makes them last 5 times longer.

[kschilk 0]

***
You also must realize that this IS an internet site visited by thousands....aren't quite as vigilant as you seem to be....also realize that his statement while seemingly being directed AT you in particular, is actually a broad statement recommending ALL people with low jump numbers..ie EXPEIRENCE...just suggesting caution....he's not trying to 'insult' you...he's trying to keep you and those like you alive.

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Oooh, man! I am so sorry….sincerely. I apologize to all, especially John….humbly and most sincerely. I honestly didn’t mean to come off, quite like that. It was most absolutely not my intent. After re-reading my response, I understood my mistake.
I write, much like if I were speaking to you, in person. I sometimes forget that without facial and vocal expression, things can take on a different tone…or even meaning. It was totally and absolutely, my bad and I truly do apologize. I normally tend to be sarcastic but in a much friendlier, joking sort of way than I came off.
I was, I admit….irritated by the number reference thing. I hate pretentiousness. It’s always been and will always be….a pet peeve, of mine. In my own defense however, I ask that you consider this: If I had posted the same question but lied and put down 1600 jumps, on my profile….would the attitudes be the same? Refer back, my friend….to the responses in all forums. Look at the licenses and jump numbers….then compare. Someone with high numbers won’t receive smart assed responses but most seem to give them. Why?
I know lots of people who are so obsessed with the numbers and licenses “eXperience” myth, I call these types “X-Men”. Ah yes, it was one of these “X-Men” (D license, 3000+)….who approached downwind, cut me off (on final & while the low man) and crashed into his buddy….right in front of me. I was inexperienced enough to pull my butt out of HIS fire and landed safely. I don’t have the “experience” it takes, to smash myself into the ground and into another jumper…gotta’ get those numbers up! I could fill volumes, with the stupid stunts I’ve seen “X-Men” do. I can’t recall ever seeing a student do anything that dumb.
I realize the number and license thing is all there is, to go by but it’s an absolutely bogus, honor-based system, in regards to numbers. Where’s the verification? I could be making 1000 jumps tonight, who would really know? I can write anything I want and forge an unreadable signature…it isn’t rocket surgery. It’s possible to somewhat verify some information but who’s going to bother?
What about quality of jumps, where’s the number for that? Is some guy that makes 1000 solos, more qualified or less, than a guy with 1000 RWs? I guess the "experience" of turning points, could prove valuable....if you were to burn in and landed in the Olympic Synchronized Swimming Team,s pool....during a rehearsal!
Take this example: 2 jumpers: #1 has 100 jumps…all perfect landings, proficient at RW, no license….#2 has 200 jumps, B license, can rarely complete 2 points, biffs 90% of his landings and only makes it back to the dz, about half the time. Who is REALLY more “experienced”? What portion of the jump number specifies this?
I suspect that many (if not most) of the “X-Men” type, have acquired much of their “experience” (i.e. numbers) by BASEing from the top of a Parker ballpoint….or #2 pencil. Don’t get me wrong, I respect the numbers….if legitimate. I’m not dumping on any one individual and I know this doesn’t apply to all people with high numbers…..but it does to a lot and their number, it seems….is quickly approaching most! Enough said.
Again, I apologize. I’m new at this. I had explored the forum thing, several years ago but I was turned away by all the foul language, fighting, attitudes (like the ones I erroneously perceived and projected) and naturally the “X-Men” thing. I can’t jump, due to the weather and it seemed like this was a viable skydiving related activity to (once again) explore. I am not so much vigilant, as hopelessly bored. This site seemed fairly legit but not so terribly active. I posted, just to test the waters. Seems it was a mistake. Still, as you said….”It’s all good!” I learned from this "eXperience" so I'm sure there's no harm in logging it as jump #(i.e. experience)106.(just joking)
I appreciate ALL responses and info provided. I wish you all, the best. I'm outta' here!

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[airtwardo 7]

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it isn’t rocket surgery.

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First~ I'm stealing that line.

Second~I hope you're not going to give up on this site. It's actually full of good people that have a lot to pass on.

I do understand what you're saying in regard to 'eXperience'....there have been several threads related to just that discussion. In the final analysis it comes down to a combination of 'actual' jump numbers as well as time in the sport.

As you said, it's easy to fake numbers...but dues are paid to gain real experience. And with those dues comes a modicum of respect.

We all actually have a lot more in common than we do differences...so it really IS 'all good'!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~