USPA Coach Requirements

[Para5-0 0]

Expired ratings (less than 1 year)
Make at least one satisfactory eval jump with a current USPA AFF-I/IE
Assisted with at least 1 FJC
Attended a USPA Coach or Instructor seminar
Expired ratings (more than 1 but less than 2 years)
Written endorsement from USPA Coach Course Director
Complete requirements for expired rating less than 1 year expired
Expired ratings (more than 2 years)
Retake USPA Coach Rating Course

[jsaxton 0]

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When I had just over 100 jumps I got my jumpmaster rating. (Scary, eh?)

And people complain about the AFF requirements now.

[billvon 3,078]

>And people complain about the AFF requirements now.

Yep. Looking back, I was just about qualified to make sure the static line was connected. Of course I was also in my 20's, and thus both immortal and omniscient.

[boyd38off 0]

I got my coach rating at 100 jumps. I think it should be 200, EVEN THOUGH I made some good productive coach jumps with fresh AFF graduates.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out and shouting,
".... holy crap....what a ride!"

[LloydDobbler 2]

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i've hesitated to bring this up, at our club, but when you have a dz with 8 or 10 coaches, and most of them do NOT do more than a dozen or so coach jumps a season,,,and many do UNDER 10 a season, doesn't that mean that most of these coach ratings have been nullified????
Are we on the honor system ?? in that regard , or do people simply ignore the "currency" requirement...? and continue to coach??, as I did for years before i was "rated"....??
I admit that i haven't checked recently to see that actual # of coach jumps one must DO, to stay current.... can anyone tell me what that # currently IS.????my guess would be in the range of 20 or so....

Well, looks like someone else has already hit the currency numbers...but here's the thing that would really matter for a DZ like yours:

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SIM, Section 2-1 E. Student Skydivers:

6. Students training for group freefall

a. Student freefall training for group freefall jumps must be conducted by either:

1. Student freefall training for group freefall jumps must be conducted by either A USPA Coach under the supervision of a USPA Instructor or;

2. USPA D license holders provided there is a minimum ratio of one D license holder to one student with a maximum of a 4-way.

I think that's one of the best things the USPA did, as far as the Coach thing goes, and ideal for a DZ like yours.

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BTW, here's another angle: once I feel like I have the skill set necessary I'd love to get my Coach rating, just so I could go up and fly with the students and 'give back' (I'm certain I could pass the course now, but I feel like I need to get some more experience before I will consider myself an authority enough to coach someone). I'd want to hold out at least a few jumps a weekend to jump with students for free, and just ask that it be paid forward. Right now, I think the sport needs that. When I was a student, AFF had cost me so much that I couldn't afford to go out and do as many coach jumps as I would have liked (that extra $50 seems like a lot, at the time). So I did a lot of solos, and just enough coach jumps to complete the tasks I needed to complete on the proficiency card.

I know I wasn't as good a skydiver when I got my 'A' because of that.

Problem being, the places where I jump, if I wanted to get my Coach rating so I could go jump with students and 'give back', it would put me at odds with the DZ, who manages and takes a cut from all the coach jumps.

This is the main reason why I have issues with the Coach rating: it gave the DZO's another revenue stream (which naturally they took advantage of), and arguably hurt the camaraderie of the sport in the process.

(Of course, you could make the argument that the GM program is a conflict of interest on a lot of levels...but that's another topic for another thread.)

Still, how does one 'give back' to the sport (and the students who could use the help) when it would be undercutting the DZ?

Signatures are the new black.

[packerboy 3]

Still, how does one 'give back' to the sport (and the students who could use the help) when it would be undercutting the DZ?

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Don't call it a coach jump.. go looking for those people who don't have anyone to jump with and offer to jump with them. Befriend those just finishing the AFF course and then just simply jump with them. Screw the DZ's cut, I'm sure if the DZ is big enough to have a coach jump management system, they'll survive. If a DZO is going to pissed that you are jumping with newbies and helping them out and not giving back what they feel is their cut for doing nothing then they need a kick in the balls (or vagina).

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[DanG 1]

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Don't call it a coach jump.. go looking for those people who don't have anyone to jump with and offer to jump with them. Befriend those just finishing the AFF course and then just simply jump with them. Screw the DZ's cut, I'm sure if the DZ is big enough to have a coach jump management system, they'll survive. If a DZO is going to pissed that you are jumping with newbies and helping them out and not giving back what they feel is their cut for doing nothing then they need a kick in the balls (or vagina).

Sounds great, but are you saying that a structured coach system will not teach the student better than someone who says, "I feel like I need to get some more experience before I will consider myself an authority enough to coach someone?" (Direct quote from Lloyd above).

Coaching should involve much more than going out and laying a base. When I do a coach jump I usually spend 30-60 minutes doing ground prep, including muscle memory drills, theory, and safety explanations. We cover canopy control issues. I make sure the student has a flight plan, gets multiple gear checks, and that the winds are safe. After the jump we debrief and retrain any areas that need work. That is what coaching is. It is not just making a jump with a newbie and saying, "more legs out," afterwards.

- Dan G

[Jumpah 0]

I voted for 200/C...but it depends on the person...coaches are like any other teacher...some are good, some are not.

But...most students with 8 jumps just need a jump buddy who is safety conscious, a heads-up skydiver, who understands the ebb and flow of the dropzone and its routines. We are not talking about a 200 jump person coaching a 4-way team or freeflying. We are talking about helping someone with turns...exits...landings.

Coaching isn't rocket science. For beginning skydivers, it's a role that can be fulfilled with the right sub-200 jump skydiver. Its not a good idea, generally, to try to give someone with 8 jumps too much new stuff on a jump. Teach them one new thing and use the rest of the jump to practice their basics.

Properly mentored, a 100 jump coach could be an incredibly useful part of the student's overall education.

[packerboy 3]

I'm saying that it is how you can go about "giving back" without worring about undercutting the DZ.

What's to stop anyone from providing a structured coach system with briefs and debriefs and all that jazz without giving the DZ a cut of the ticket? Teach how you want to teach... if your free "help a friend" jump isn't good enough for them then no biggie, noone paid 50 dollars for it. Fun was had by all. If Johnny newbie is pissed that he wasted his own ticket without learning something and didn't have fun, then I think Johnnie newbie skydives for different reasons than myself and all of my friends do.

I have done "official" structured coach dives with lesson plans and all the works with people for the simple reason of helping the coach and the student learn something while they were out there having fun. Everyone paid for their own lift and I doubt the DZO even knew about it. He certainly didn't get paid for it.

I already know that you and I disagree about the paying for the coach jump thing.. no need to start swinging here. I believe that you can get the same value from a jump without paying someone elses slot, and you are one of those who would have to pay for their own jump if someone didn't pay for it for you.

I'm just answering his question... that's how you "give back" to the sport. If you don't want to give back, that's your perogative.. go ahead and have someone else pay for your fun. God speed.

I only want to get paid for packing because packing sucks ass... if packing was fun, I'd do it for free too. If it were as fun as going out on a jump with a newbie, I would probably pay other people to let me pack for them.

Actually it sucks ass so bad I don't do it anymore.. it's not worth turning a fun day skydiving into a hard days work just for some free jumps. If that's what coaching is to you.. you should quit coaching, loosen up and have some fun. You might do a few less jumps, but they will be infinitely more fun.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[DanG 1]

I know we disagree about this, and I applaud your desire to give back to the sport. Regardless of your opinion of me from my three or four posts on the subject, I give an assload back to the sport. Hopefully we can meet someday and you'll get a better idea where I'm coming from.

My opinion on coaching is complex enough to make it hard to break down into a sentence or two, but one thing I believe is that you generally get what you pay for. I see a lot of younger jumpers making "coaching" jumps with newbies and not teaching anything at all, or worse yet, teaching things wrong or unsafely. That is not "giving back". Many people also jump with newbies because it strokes their ego to be the big man for once. That is not "giving back".

I don't coach for the money. I don't need the money. I do take the student's money if I'm doing an official coach jump that requires my time, attention, and expertise. When a student is paying for a jump, he/she also tends to take the lessons more seriously, too. It turns from a jump with a buddy into a lesson, and much more value is created.

Anyway, please keep giving back with fun jumps and a welcoming attitude. I'll continue doing the same. I will also continue to provide expert coaching for a fee when that is what is required.

- Dan G

[mpuettman 0]

I, too, have always felt that I should give back to the sport -- at my own expense. After all, I had plenty of people who helped me (at no charge) along the way. And that is one of the many things I have always liked about this sport – the people I have met have all been friendly, positive, and willing to help each other without expecting anything in return.

Then along came USPA with another way to boost its own revenues…

[skybytch 273]

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Befriend those just finishing the AFF course and then just simply jump with them.

Befriend them, yeah. But until they have an A license, don't jump with them if you don't have a D license and the blessing of the S&TA. A DZO has every right to get pissed off if someone who doesn't have the credentials is jumping with someone who is technically still a student; money has nothing to do with it.

You can give back plenty jumping with someone who just got their license. And those jumps can be excellent preparation for someone who thinks they might want to be an instructor someday.

[packerboy 3]

And it's just plain fun.

I do enjoy a good bigway (my version of a bigway is smaller than most) or a FF jump, but I have the most fun jumping with a 50 jump wonder. They seem to have alot more fun than someone with say 500-5000 jumps. Every jump is a big deal to them. I have the most fun when those with me are having a bang up good time. I find it alot more gratifying to share a great experience with someone rather than just have a good jump with 15 others.

Dan, I totally respect your view on the coaching subject and what you do to better the sport. Like I said earlier in another thread, I just thinking we jump in different worlds. I am from a Cessna dropzone where not a soul has paid for a coach jump in years. Albeit, people from my dropzone probably learn at a slower rate than those from yours, and they are OK with slow progression. We have an Otter on the long weekends only. If you aren't jumping with newbies than you will be spending alot of time doing only 2-3ways with experienced people. It's not like you are losing the opportunity to do 20 ways all day long in order to spend some time on the ground coaching. Unless you are doing tandems 20-30 min is the least amount of time you are going to be spending on the ground anyway, might as well be productive. Most people just find a mentor and just go with it...

If we end up jumping in the same place same time, I'll probably pay you for a coach jump just to "look you up" and get your side. Cheers.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[JustChuteMeNow 0]

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Befriend those just finishing the AFF course and then just simply jump with them.

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Befriend them, yeah. But until they have an A license, don't jump with them if you don't have a D license and the blessing of the S&TA. A DZO has every right to get pissed off if someone who doesn't have the credentials is jumping with someone who is technically still a student; money has nothing to do with it.

I think he was implying that if a person was a coach that they could do fun jumps with newer jumpers without charging a fee even at DZs that utilize coached jumps for revenue.

I have been to many large DZs and I often try and find new jumpers just off of AFF to jump with. I do this for the smiles.
I left a DZ where no one charged newbies for the privlidge of passing on information to make them better jumpers. This was on the ground as well as in the air. In fact I believe this attitude is prevalent at all of the Dzs in Iowa and it helps to foster a strong sense of unity and fellowship. The retention rate of newer jumpers is extremely high.

Getting back to the topic of this thread. Newer jumpers can greatyly benefit from having someone with JUST a hundred jumps help them to improve if the person has the right skill set. The coach course certifies that a jumper has the skill set to help new jumpers get their A-license.

Can the new coach avoid collisions. Check
Can they go up and down. Check
Can they do a linked exit. Check
Can they do forward and back. Check
Can they fill out the rest of the card Check

Will they teach like a seasoned pro. No
Will they fly like a seasoned pro. No
Will their techniques be as good as a seasoned Pro? No
Should they charge like a seasoned pro if they can't perform like a seasoned pro. No

Can they help a new jumper with just barely 10 jumps improve. Yes
Can they continue to help the new jumper until the new jumper can get an A-license. Yes

FWIW I believe the coach program has been great for our DZ and our coaches have helped fill the gap between AFF and an A-lecense. I believe this is what it was designed to do and our coaches with just over a 100 jumps have done fine.

Think of how stupid the average person is and realize that statistically half of them are stupider than that.

[ksjumper 0]

I agree with Jim.

Besides, coaches aren't out there doing it on their own, they have to be supervised by an instructor present on the DZ. Coaches aren't expected to swoop down and dock on a student. They are mainly there to observe, perhaps lay base and change fall-rate when needed.

My cessna dropzone thrives with coaches and students that get to make multiple jumps in a day and would not exist without coaches(with 100+ jumps). We have licensed 15 people in the last 14 months. That it pretty good for a single cessna dropzone.

JM

[Jumpah 0]

Of course, most people have fun jumping with a 50 jump wonder. That is not the same as "coaching", which (in theory!) is quality professional instruction.

My gf's kid takes gymnastics and ballet. She pays for the coach to teach her kid something. I took fencing a few years ago...paid for the coach. I work out at my gym and pay a trainer $40 a session every other week to help me keep the workout from getting stale.

In all of these, the coach has expenses...gym membership, fencing gear, studio lease. Skydiving isn't free...someone is paying that $23 a jump, and over time that adds up. I wouldn't think of giving someone grief if they don't have a wallet big enough for free coach jumps and the time spent briefing, debriefing, and packing...not to mention gear wear, tear, and even replacement.

For a fun jump with a 50 jump wonder, yah, pay your own slot or, in many cases, the DZ will have a load organizer slot you can get on. Where I jump does.

[ozzy13 0]

Thank you everyone for voting. Looks like most people feel the same way I do. I have read in here what people think the role of a coach is. I must say when I did my coach jumps they sucked. The guy I did them with had a couple 1000 jumps exited the plain with me. Fell down the pipe and at the end of the jump gave me a 2 minute de-briefing. I didn't learn any thing. I got my card signed because I docked on him.
Ok I think my role as a coach is to fine tune and get the student to understand everything he or she learn in AFF. A good coach jump takes me at least one hour ground prep. Going over the dive flow numinous times. The in air and the de- briefing. Now with that said. I know everyone knows this. I just don't think at a 100 jumps I had the skills to do this.

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[Throttlebender 0]

Agreed

Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin

[Airman1270 0]

...well way before the 'rating' was even available i often found myself jumping with new to intermediate level jumpers...
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Amen. I used to "coach" newbies until USPA invented this stupid rating and told me I was no longer qualified to do something I'd been doing for years.

Back then we didn't call it coaching, we called it "jumping with the new guy."

I hate watching recent graduates do solos when they'd clearly like to get on a dive with other people, all because they don't have that "A" license yet. How many of these folks think nobody wants to jump with them? How many understand that there are plenty of capable people around who would gladly have them on the dive if USPA hadn't interfered by creating this atmosphere of hand-wringing & paranoia with this "coach" idiocy?

One fond memory: 1994. A very nice lady went through the AFF course, graduating in seven or eight jumps. Her first & only non-student jump was a 2-way w/me. Her grin was priceless. She died several weeks later due to a medical issue. She'd become a close friend of us all in those few months.

Cheers,
Jon S.

[skycamefalling 0]

I think that 100 jumps is too low. And this is coming from a person that loves to teach others and help them aquire new skills. I would love a coaches rating....when I am ready for it though. Wheather it be at 100, 200 or even 500 jumps. I am in no hurry to aquire something that I would not be able to use effectively.

I also think that there should be a certain amount of time in freefall to even be able to get a coaches rating. What if a student that just received his A license does 70 hop n pops from 3k and then only does 5-10 jumps from altitude to brush up on what he needs to do on his check dive to get his rating and passes? I dont think that would be sufficent enough time to be a coach.

Also, I think that if you have a coaches rating, you should have enough time jumping with a camera also to be able to give your student a full debriefing after his/her jump. Telling what they did wrong or right is one thing, but showing them along with constructive criticism will further their learning curve and making you a better coach.

But that is just my .02

Speedracer~I predict that Michael Jackson will rise from the dead.
And that a giant radioactive duck will emerge from the ocean and eat Baltimore.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

200 Jumps.... however:

The most demanding part of being an effective coach is NOT air skills... it is ground skills.

Being able and willing to do a really through ground prep before and an equally good debrief are the essence of the coach's tasks.

Yes, a coach needs to be able to fly into position with a student who may be all over the sky. But beyond that the coach is primarily a target and an observer.

That said, I didn't even think about becoming a coach until I had over 200 jumps. Even so... my first few coach jumps were a challenge.

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[theonlyski 8]

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I also think that there should be a certain amount of time in freefall to even be able to get a coaches rating. What if a student that just received his A license does 70 hop n pops from 3k and then only does 5-10 jumps from altitude to brush up on what he needs to do on his check dive to get his rating and passes? I dont think that would be sufficent enough time to be a coach.

If their coach course was anything like mine, they would probably fail. My instructor made it his mission in life to set me up so he could hit me in a full track or get under me and have me fall on him, I doubt someone with a handfull of actual RW type jumps would have been able to avoid all of those tricks.

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Also, I think that if you have a coaches rating, you should have enough time jumping with a camera also to be able to give your student a full debriefing after his/her jump. Telling what they did wrong or right is one thing, but showing them along with constructive criticism will further their learning curve and making you a better coach.

Plenty of coaches don't wear cameras, and its not needed. The coach just has to remember what and when you did things, same as an AFF-I. I do agree that video can be extremely usefull, however, it shouldn't be required.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[skycamefalling 0]

I can only hope that when the day comes to get my rating, my coach will be equally as hard. I do not think that any sort of rating should even be some what easy. But that is one of the many things I love about skydiving........the challenge.

I do not think that a camera should be required for coaches. I do believe that they should have the knowledge and skill to fly with a camera. I just think that they should be able to have that option to fly with or without one.

Speedracer~I predict that Michael Jackson will rise from the dead.
And that a giant radioactive duck will emerge from the ocean and eat Baltimore.

[Airman1270 0]

...I also think that there should be a certain amount of time in freefall to even be able to get a coaches rating. What if a student that just received his A license does 70 hop n pops from 3k and then only does 5-10 jumps from altitude to brush up on what he needs to do on his check dive to get his rating..
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One does not have to fly with the precision of a competition 4-way team to jump safely with others. If you're not a student, then by definition you have demonstrated basic survival skills (such as the ability to fly in proximity to others w/out posing a hazard.)

Maybe you have 50 jumps and your flying is a bit sloppy, but that doesn't mean you're flopping around out of control, smashing into people nearby. Nor does it mean you're diving last on a five-way plummeting blindly toward the group. Both you and the newbie posess enough skill to use caution and keep from harming each other. Otherwise, you should never have been signed off instruction.

Cheers,
Jon

[rowland2747 0]

While i agree with what a lot of you are saying about needing more jumps I have to say that it is also a case by case basis. I am going to get my coach rating at the end of the month I am pretty good on my belly im not perfect and probably never will be I have just over 100 jumps but i love teaching and I jump at a small 182 drop zone so i get to help with our S/L FJC. I just want to give back our DZ does not pay its instructors either. I also believe that I am ready for my coach rating not necessarily to teach jumpers with hundreds of more jumps than me but to teach and mentor new jumpers. Id love to hear everyones opinion on my situation.