billvon 3,173 #1 Posted Sunday at 04:44 AM In the book How Democracies Die, Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt discuss their research that looked into the cause of authoritarian regimes that replaced more democratic societies. There are a lot of famous ones out there: Iraq under Hussein Hungary under Orban Kampuchea under Pol Pot Germany under Hitler The Soviet Union under Stalin Italy under Mussolini Libya under Gaddafi They set out to answer the question "how does this happen?" How do authoritarian strongmen take control of democracies and societies that are more democratic than authoritarian? Why do people cede their power to an autocrat? During their studies, they found some common themes that appeared in all transitions to autocracy. 1. Rejecting the principles of democracy. Fledgling autocrats start by attacking the principles of democratic society. They question elections, claiming they were rigged against them. They threaten judges and electors, hoping to cow them into supporting the autocrat, rather than do their jobs to ensure justice and fair elections. 2. Denying the legitimacy of opponents. Opponents are portrayed as criminals or threats to national security. They are often arrested or threatened with arrest, and the autocrat's supporters often carry out these threats with implicit backing from the autocrat. 3. Tolerating or encouraging violence. Autocrats encourage riots and civil unrest, and often later call their followers engaging in such riots heroes. They then use their power to protect those rioters, to create a more loyal base willing to do violence. At the same time they try to incite violence at a state level, by using state forces to create conflict where there was none - and then using that conflict as an excuse for more brutal controls. 4. Curtailing civil liberties. The first target of autocrats is the media - restricing their access, feeding them misinformation, threatening them with arrest, and using state power and influence to shut any dissenting opinions down. At the same time, state and state affiliated media sources are supported, promulgated and funded in order to get the autocrats message out. After that they start restricing individual rights, like banning certain types of speech or certain sorts of communication. As these go on, there are several other ancillary steps the autocrat takes. Expanding executive power. They will often govern through executive edicts, ignoring the legislative and judicial branches. They will claim that any limits to their power are false, or evil, or a result of an enemy trying to harm the country. Politicizing independent institutions. Ordinarily nonpartisan organizations, like the police, the national guard and the judiciary, are taken over by the autocrat to do their bidding. Disinformation. Falsehoods that help the autocrat are spread continuously, relentlessly and deliberately to confuse the issues surrounding the autocrat. Quashing dissent. Dissenters are criminalized, and the right to assemble and speak freely is limited by the autocrat. Scapegoating vulnerable communities. A scapegoat community is chosen, generally one with little to no power, and one that is visibly and notably different from the autocrat's community. They are vilified and turned into the evil that is holding the country back, and so must be stopped at all costs. This allows the autocrat to seize extraordinary powers to "deal with the emergency." Seen any of that going on recently? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,307 #2 Sunday at 01:15 PM I question some of the examples you give under point two, as in the level of democracy as a starting point. But the general gist of what is happening is frighteningly as you say. It is not hard to imagine that the USA great experiment is in danger of ending. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,642 #3 Sunday at 01:36 PM Maybe so. And maybe it’ll be the hard reset that, frankly, Nazi Germany was for Germany. Which really sucks, considering all that persecution, Holocaust, and war that happened in between. It’s such a big country, it’s maybe too big and diverse to continue as a tightly-knit country, and may have to end up as something more akin to the EU. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 3,023 #4 Sunday at 06:25 PM 1 hour ago, wmw999 said: Maybe so. And maybe it’ll be the hard reset that, frankly, Nazi Germany was for Germany. Which really sucks, considering all that persecution, Holocaust, and war that happened in between. It’s such a big country, it’s maybe too big and diverse to continue as a tightly-knit country, and may have to end up as something more akin to the EU. Wendy P. I doubt it. Seems to me that the long term survival of our species is dependent not on what we each want on a short term basis but rather of a mixing of the races and a recognition that a group of peaceful democracies peacefully coexisting for their mutual betterment is clearly not in our nature. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,307 #5 Sunday at 07:40 PM 1 hour ago, JoeWeber said: recognition that a group of peaceful democracies peacefully coexisting for their mutual betterment is clearly not in our nature. It would seem to go against the survival of the fittest ethic. Competition is brutal, but perhaps necessary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 687 #6 Sunday at 11:57 PM For you history buffs, has any country got to the brink of dictatorship/authoritarian rule and been able to avert it? Specifically as far as the US - with “secret police” types on the streets etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,173 #7 Monday at 03:59 PM On 10/12/2025 at 6:15 AM, gowlerk said: I question some of the examples you give under point two, as in the level of democracy as a starting point. Interesting. Do you think any of the cases are examples of going from one autocracy to another? Or is it more that some of those regimes were more democratic than others before the authoritarian comes to power? (Which is definitely true) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,307 #8 Monday at 04:57 PM The one that immediately caught my attention was Stalin and the Soviet Union. I’m not aware of either Imperial Russia, or the nations making up the USSR ever being considered democracies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,642 #9 Monday at 05:44 PM Brazil was a fairly unstable democracy, heading towards more stability (fingers crossed) in 1964 when the military took over. But they were beset by some of the same issues that we are now (economic inequality and instability, lots of movements etc). The military overthrew the elected government, tossed the sitting president, and declared the position vacant. There was an "interim" government declared, and then one of the generals who led the coup was elected the following year. There were close to 30 years of oppression and violence. Brazil is by no means a haven now, but they're back to electing people, and demonstrating about it, and everything else. One difference is that coups were going around the place in South America at the time, and the military was its own source of power, not just an arm of the government. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 687 #10 yesterday at 08:44 AM https://www.reddit.com/r/FascismLink/s/hWgZ2RPlxP Hard to believe this is in the USA. It’s a little bit difficult to get the full context from the video - why were only these 2 targeted and why was the one guy dragged inside the facility? It looks like maybe they were the only ones blocking the road but it still is a shocking scene. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,646 #11 yesterday at 10:51 AM 2 hours ago, nigel99 said: Hard to believe this is in the USA. Police brutality in the USA is hard to believe? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 687 #12 yesterday at 11:33 AM 41 minutes ago, jakee said: Police brutality in the USA is hard to believe? Against white people No I meant the suppression of peaceful protestors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,219 #13 yesterday at 04:21 PM 4 hours ago, nigel99 said: Against white people No I meant the suppression of peaceful protestors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 917 #14 yesterday at 05:27 PM 1 hour ago, kallend said: weaklings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,490 #15 21 hours ago Hi folks, I came across this comment from PA Gov. Shapiro: “I think it's important that, in this time of rising political violence, that none of us grow numb to it or accept this as the normal course of doing business for elected officials. Statement Gov Shapiro FL Shapiro Guilty Plea Assassination Attempt Arson Attack | Commonwealth of Pennsylvania I agree 100% with the governor. We must stand our ground & resist all we can; civilly. We must not yield to the tyranny of Trump 2.0. We must not consider it the 'new normal.' Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites