JoeWeber 3,021 #1 Posted September 28 The 14th Amendment notwithstanding, as none do anymore, I am opposed to citizenship by birth on US soil. It is an abused right and doesn't seem to make sense, to me, these days. I had a connected Venezuelan guy I did a couple of deals with who brought his wife to the US just to have his kids born here. To me that's wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,216 #2 September 28 It makes more sense than the 2nd Amendment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,489 #3 September 28 9 hours ago, JoeWeber said: The 14th Amendment notwithstanding, as none do anymore, I am opposed to citizenship by birth on US soil. It is an abused right and doesn't seem to make sense, to me, these days. I had a connected Venezuelan guy I did a couple of deals with who brought his wife to the US just to have his kids born here. To me that's wrong. Hi Joe, Ethically, I don't like it. I have read that a fair amount of Chinese come here to birth children to give them US citizenship. Overall, there is so little that I do not consider it a problem. Otherwise, John McCain could not have ran for Prez. It's an interesting discussion, not much else. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,260 #4 September 28 (edited) There are 35 countries that provide citizenship unconditionally to anyone born within their national borders FOX is NEVER the place for truthful opinions, facts, or information. Countries by birthright citizenship: Unconditional birthright citizenship for persons born in the country Birthright citizenship with restrictions Birthright citizenship abolished No birthright citizenship Edited September 28 by Phil1111 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,489 #5 September 28 22 minutes ago, Phil1111 said: There are 35 countries that provide citizenship unconditionally to anyone born within their national borders FOX is NEVER the place for truthful opinions, facts, or information. Countries by birthright citizenship: Unconditional birthright citizenship for persons born in the country Birthright citizenship with restrictions Birthright citizenship abolished No birthright citizenship Hi Phil, I quite like this; from your link: now children born in Germany on or after 1 January 2000 to non-German parents acquire German citizenship at birth if at least one parent has a permanent residence permit and resided in Germany for at least five years prior to the child's birth. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,260 #6 September 28 1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said: Hi Phil, I quite like this; from your link: now children born in Germany on or after 1 January 2000 to non-German parents acquire German citizenship at birth if at least one parent has a permanent residence permit and resided in Germany for at least five years prior to the child's birth. Jerry Baumchen I personally like this "The total fertility rate for the U.S. reached a new low of approximately 1.599 births per woman in 2024", from CDC. So .4 below that required to maintain the population. "Panel A of Figure 12 shows the PWBM microsimulation’s projections of annual increases among workers (aged 25-64, blue line) and retirees (aged 65 and older, red line). Both microsimulation time series include immigration into each group as projected under current immigration policy, most of which augments the working age group. Nevertheless, the ongoing shift of baby boomers from the worker to the retiree group implies that annual increases among retirees far outstrip those of workers. Indeed, worker transitions into the older group are so large that the increase in workers (blue line) is smaller than net immigration of workers (yellow line). The large increase in retirees relative to workers is projected to reduce the worker-to-retiree ratio (black line in Panel B of Figure 12) from almost 3.0 today to 2.0 by 2075. One potential way of preventing the decline in the worker-retiree ratio is to increase annual immigration levels. Increases in net immigration each year would cumulatively increase the number of workers. This means that increasing legal immigration (by some multiple of the current level) would shift the time profile of the worker-retiree ratio upward." Without immigration the US is headed for armageddon as the rich battle the poor for the scarce assets like health care, unable to pay for the debts, etc. Old people with money and nobody working. So pretty much what evangelical Christians with their AR-15s always dream about. With Trump's current policies and his proposed nutcase ideas of anti-immigration the time frame for armageddon would likely compress by a quarter century. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,489 #7 September 28 41 minutes ago, Phil1111 said: I personally like this "The total fertility rate for the U.S. reached a new low of approximately 1.599 births per woman in 2024", from CDC. So .4 below that required to maintain the population. "Panel A of Figure 12 shows the PWBM microsimulation’s projections of annual increases among workers (aged 25-64, blue line) and retirees (aged 65 and older, red line). Both microsimulation time series include immigration into each group as projected under current immigration policy, most of which augments the working age group. Nevertheless, the ongoing shift of baby boomers from the worker to the retiree group implies that annual increases among retirees far outstrip those of workers. Indeed, worker transitions into the older group are so large that the increase in workers (blue line) is smaller than net immigration of workers (yellow line). The large increase in retirees relative to workers is projected to reduce the worker-to-retiree ratio (black line in Panel B of Figure 12) from almost 3.0 today to 2.0 by 2075. One potential way of preventing the decline in the worker-retiree ratio is to increase annual immigration levels. Increases in net immigration each year would cumulatively increase the number of workers. This means that increasing legal immigration (by some multiple of the current level) would shift the time profile of the worker-retiree ratio upward." Without immigration the US is headed for armageddon as the rich battle the poor for the scarce assets like health care, unable to pay for the debts, etc. Old people with money and nobody working. So pretty much what evangelical Christians with their AR-15s always dream about. With Trump's current policies and his proposed nutcase ideas of anti-immigration the time frame for armageddon would likely compress by a quarter century. Hi Phil, Re: The large increase in retirees relative to workers is projected to reduce the worker-to-retiree ratio (black line in Panel B of Figure 12) from almost 3.0 today to 2.0 by 2075. As I continue to say; every day, all over the world, people are working on devices to eliminate manual labor jobs. One only has to look at the number of crop picking jobs that are now mechanized. I would not be surprised, in 10 yrs or so, to the US Social Security System switched to a simple federal retirement system. This might include a minimum income for everyone; just don't blow it on booze & drugs. Locally, on tv, I continue to see stories on elderly people who are crying the blues because they do not have a pot to piss in. My question is: How in the hell did you get into this mess? I recently posted with an article about how only ~ 1/3 of Oregonians who could not come up with $400, if they had. Why???????????? Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,260 #8 September 28 44 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said: Hi Phil, Re: The large increase in retirees relative to workers is projected to reduce the worker-to-retiree ratio (black line in Panel B of Figure 12) from almost 3.0 today to 2.0 by 2075.... Why???????????? Jerry Baumchen One word explains it all.......... Republicans! Income distribution in the US is the worst of western countries. The rich getting richer the poor, poorer. Many poor can't retire because they have no savings. AI and automation still can't run kitchens, stock shelves, clean buildings and bathrooms. There is picking fruit, raising cattle, slaughtering them, running the stores to distribute the meat. The working less well off,do all that. Then on the backs of the working manual classes 25 years from now you can add the accumulated deficit to pay for the billionaire tax breaks, global warming expenses, deteriorating infrastructure, etc. picture a 68 YO woman living in a tent going to work in a senior care centre to look after a 80 YO rich white man. The second factor is the White only no immigration policies of the right. Sorry Trump Norwegians are not coming to the US. Aging demographics, rapidly rising debt/gdp, no savings of the poor is most likely to lead to violence. With rich Americans driving around in armoured cars from gated community to gated community. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 682 #9 September 28 1 hour ago, Phil1111 said: I personally like this "The total fertility rate for the U.S. reached a new low of approximately 1.599 births per woman in 2024", from CDC. So .4 below that required to maintain the population. "Panel A of Figure 12 shows the PWBM microsimulation’s projections of annual increases among workers (aged 25-64, blue line) and retirees (aged 65 and older, red line). Both microsimulation time series include immigration into each group as projected under current immigration policy, most of which augments the working age group. Nevertheless, the ongoing shift of baby boomers from the worker to the retiree group implies that annual increases among retirees far outstrip those of workers. Indeed, worker transitions into the older group are so large that the increase in workers (blue line) is smaller than net immigration of workers (yellow line). The large increase in retirees relative to workers is projected to reduce the worker-to-retiree ratio (black line in Panel B of Figure 12) from almost 3.0 today to 2.0 by 2075. One potential way of preventing the decline in the worker-retiree ratio is to increase annual immigration levels. Increases in net immigration each year would cumulatively increase the number of workers. This means that increasing legal immigration (by some multiple of the current level) would shift the time profile of the worker-retiree ratio upward." Without immigration the US is headed for armageddon as the rich battle the poor for the scarce assets like health care, unable to pay for the debts, etc. Old people with money and nobody working. So pretty much what evangelical Christians with their AR-15s always dream about. With Trump's current policies and his proposed nutcase ideas of anti-immigration the time frame for armageddon would likely compress by a quarter century. This is where you entirely miss the point. Immigration destroys the American way of life and brings in too many brown people. The real solution is to ban abortion, restrict birth control, legitimise rape, lower the age of consent and get women back in the kitchen where they belong. This was you can get the birth rate up with fine upstanding white evangelical Christians and stop the poisoning of the country. Isn’t it sad that not many years ago that would have been an onion article, now it is close to being official policy and almost all of that has been said by senior members of your government in some shape of form. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,216 #10 September 30 On 9/28/2025 at 6:54 PM, nigel99 said: Isn’t it sad that not many years ago that would have been an onion article, now it is close to being official policy and almost all of that has been said by senior members of your government in some shape of form. Just about everything about the current government is "sad". What's even sadder is the number of Americans who voted for it. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dogyks 30 #11 September 30 2 hours ago, kallend said: Just about everything about the current government is "sad". What's even sadder is the number of Americans who voted for it. Actually, a large number voted against an alternative that is measurably worse. People stifled their gag reflex and voted for the 'bullies from Bavaria' because the alternative was appalling. They had their equivalent of Democrats, and made the rational decision that evil incarnate was an improvement. I'm impressed that the Left hasn't figured out that they put the current administration in place by being a caricature of mindless stupidity. Agreed, Trump sucks out loud. Unfortunately, Democrats are worse by a long shot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,303 #12 September 30 2 hours ago, kallend said: Just about everything about the current government is "sad". What's even sadder is the number of Americans who voted for it. And even sadder than the number who voted for it is the number who will do so again if given the chance. Popularism is popular. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 682 #13 September 30 4 minutes ago, dogyks said: Actually, a large number voted against an alternative that is measurably worse. People stifled their gag reflex and voted for the 'bullies from Bavaria' because the alternative was appalling. They had their equivalent of Democrats, and made the rational decision that evil incarnate was an improvement. I'm impressed that the Left hasn't figured out that they put the current administration in place by being a caricature of mindless stupidity. Agreed, Trump sucks out loud. Unfortunately, Democrats are worse by a long shot. It says a lot about you that you still believe that. The fact that you rank a pedophile, rapist, felon as arguably better than a successful prosecutor is pretty sick. Only you know what deep seated prejudice allows you to hold that view. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,303 #14 September 30 (edited) 2 hours ago, dogyks said: Agreed, Trump sucks out loud. Unfortunately, Democrats are worse by a long shot. An example of the madness. Or, “ how to say you support the madness and will continue to do so without say you support the madness and will continue to do so “. Edited September 30 by gowlerk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dogyks 30 #15 September 30 Whoosh ... 'Felonies' can be a matter of location. What is mandatory in one place is proscribed elsewhere. I'm not sure where the pedophile part comes in, my guess is by association with Jeffrey Epstein. I don't recall anyone saying that anyone in particular made specific allegations. The 'rape' part seems to come from testimony that was apparently word for word identical to a scenario from a popular novel. His hot mike comment about 'grabbing pussy' doesn't strengthen his credibility. His propensity for bankruptcy is of concern, but at least he has some practice navigating insolvency. Anyone who could characterize Harris as a 'successful prosecutor' to support her qualification for being the Chief Executive would probably be cool with the further implosion of the system that would result from the decision making skills she routinely demonstrated. Again, Trump is the worst possible choice without actually being a Democrat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 916 #16 September 30 (edited) 11 minutes ago, dogyks said: Whoosh ... 'Felonies' can be a matter of location. What is mandatory in one place is proscribed elsewhere. I'm not sure where the pedophile part comes in, my guess is by association with Jeffrey Epstein. I don't recall anyone saying that anyone in particular made specific allegations. The 'rape' part seems to come from testimony that was apparently word for word identical to a scenario from a popular novel. His hot mike comment about 'grabbing pussy' doesn't strengthen his credibility. His propensity for bankruptcy is of concern, but at least he has some practice navigating insolvency. Anyone who could characterize Harris as a 'successful prosecutor' to support her qualification for being the Chief Executive would probably be cool with the further implosion of the system that would result from the decision making skills she routinely demonstrated. Again, Trump is the worst possible choice without actually being a Democrat. THIS is what is ending the American experiment. That millions can support the worst possible example of what a human should never be, will destroy this democracy is beyond incomprehensible. 34 felony convictions Rapist Pedophile Pedophile rapist Nothing but bankruptcy in business He stole from children with cancer While most of us could NEVER possibly have these qualities in a coworker, we have them in the pedo potus. I will never understand this insanity. America has lost it's standing in the world. China and Russia will take horrific advantage of this. "Whoosh" indeed. Edited September 30 by normiss 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dogyks 30 #17 September 30 (edited) 43 minutes ago, normiss said: THIS is what is ending the American experiment. That millions can support the worst possible example of what a human should never be, will destroy this democracy is beyond incomprehensible. 34 felony convictions Rapist Pedophile Pedophile rapist Nothing but bankruptcy in business He stole from children with cancer While most of us could NEVER possibly have these qualities in a coworker, we have them in the pedo potus. I will never understand this insanity. America has lost it's standing in the world. China and Russia will take horrific advantage of this. "Whoosh" indeed. I don't 'support' him, and many who voted against his opponent also find him personally loathsome. Unfortunately, he was the only alternative to a candidate that was significantly worse. Btw, what's with the pedo stuff? I'm unaware of the particulars. Edited September 30 by dogyks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,639 #18 September 30 41 minutes ago, dogyks said: Unfortunately, he was the only alternative to a candidate that was significantly worse. You have never enumerated anything that actually made her worse, other than a hand-waving "her policies." And the little innuendo in his birthday card to Epstein, combined with his talking about walking around in beauty queen (and teenage pageant) dressing rooms because he can get away with it, all paint a fairly creepy picture. Not to mention his now-unwillingness to release the Epstein files, and constant misdirection (Look! aid to Argentina! Look! Bombing Venezuelan fishermen! etc) Wendy P. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 916 #19 September 30 47 minutes ago, dogyks said: I don't 'support' him, and many who voted against his opponent also find him personally loathsome. Unfortunately, he was the only alternative to a candidate that was significantly worse. Btw, what's with the pedo stuff? I'm unaware of the particulars. LMGTFY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 916 #20 September 30 3 minutes ago, wmw999 said: You have never enumerated anything that actually made her worse, other than a hand-waving "her policies." And the little innuendo in his birthday card to Epstein, combined with his talking about walking around in beauty queen (and teenage pageant) dressing rooms because he can get away with it, all paint a fairly creepy picture. Not to mention his now-unwillingness to release the Epstein files, and constant misdirection (Look! aid to Argentina! Look! Bombing Venezuelan fishermen! etc) Wendy P. "Her policies" - as if Trump has EVER had a single policy on anything besides grifting from the US. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 405 #21 September 30 39 minutes ago, normiss said: "Her policies" - as if Trump has EVER had a single policy on anything besides grifting from the US. Well, that and reversing everything first Obama and then Biden accomplished, and imprisoning every person who has ever tried to hold him to account for his numerous crimes, and destroying every institution that might try to limit his dictatorial ambitions. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,645 #22 September 30 4 hours ago, dogyks said: People stifled their gag reflex and voted for the 'bullies from Bavaria' because the alternative was appalling. They had their equivalent of Democrats, and made the rational decision that evil incarnate was an improvement. Once again your description of the Nazis as the rational choice for normal people clashes with your visible confusion that anyone would ever describe you as being on the far right. 4 hours ago, dogyks said: Agreed, Trump sucks out loud. Unfortunately, Democrats are worse by a long shot. In ways that you have never once been able to articulate ever. Wait, I'm sorry that was unfair - ways that you have never even tried to articulate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,645 #23 September 30 3 hours ago, dogyks said: 'Felonies' can be a matter of location. What is mandatory in one place is proscribed elsewhere. That's nice. Where is it mandatory to pay off a porn star and commit business fraud and tax fraud to cover it up? 3 hours ago, dogyks said: The 'rape' part seems to come from testimony that was apparently word for word identical to a scenario from a popular novel. 'Apparently' word for word? I take it, then, that you haven't checked whether it's true that it is word for word or whether that's a blatant lie? You just heard it from one of your MAGA sources and took it as gospel, the same way you seem to always believe any attack against any prominent woman? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dogyks 30 #24 September 30 (edited) 2 hours ago, wmw999 said: You have never enumerated anything that actually made her worse, other than a hand-waving "her policies." And the little innuendo in his birthday card to Epstein, combined with his talking about walking around in beauty queen (and teenage pageant) dressing rooms because he can get away with it, all paint a fairly creepy picture. Not to mention his now-unwillingness to release the Epstein files, and constant misdirection (Look! aid to Argentina! Look! Bombing Venezuelan fishermen! etc) Wendy P. I'd have to be a coprophiliac to delve more than superficially into the particulars of her qualifications Her firm embrace of things Woke is an instant deal breaker. Identity over ability? You got your mother in a whirl, she's not sure if you're a boy or a girl. Open borders to all! Don't seek resolution from accountants or attorneys. Their job is to find problems, not solutions. Admittedly, it's kinda hard to nail down her position on many issues, since the best she has to offer is unintelligible word salad. She may not be a moron, but she sure as hell plays one on TV. . Edited September 30 by dogyks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,170 #25 September 30 Look, everyone. This has gone on far enough. Those "felonies?" They can be just a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I mean, who among us doesn't have a few felonies? And that rape? Well, women, amirite? They're always accusing alpha males of whatever. Plus she was ugly. Like coyote ugly. And that pedophilia thing? Look, they all probably said they were 18. How could he know? Again, women, amirite? Can't trust em, even if you pay em. And don't start with that "paying porn star to lie about his banging her." Every man in America wants to do that, and they'd all pay to cover it up! Right? And sure, his adminstration conspired with Russia against the United States. But Putin, like Hitler, isn't ALL bad. They did some good things. Yeah, yeah, he thinks that windmills cause cancer, that you can nuke hurricanes, that you can inject bleach to cure COVID, and that Tylenol and vaccines cause autism. But at least he speaks his mind. But Harris? BLACK! A WOMAN! And that LAUGH! 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites