Violent Left Extremists

[jakee 1,649]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Now you are reducing it to why.

No idea what that means.

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

The bastards can't hang it on the left without their normal pretzel twisting and hypocritical projections. 

Unless he, y'know, turns out to be a lefty.

Athough they'd still be massive hypocrites in any case.

[jakee 1,649]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

"I'll tell you something that's gonna get me in trouble but I couldn't care less. The radicals on the right oftentimes are radical because they don't want to see crime. They don’t want to see crime. They’re saying, ‘We don’t want these people coming in. We don’t want you burning our shopping centers. We don’t want you shooting our people in the middle of the street.’ "

Puts the 'very fine people' remarks in more context, doesn't it. 

[billvon 3,176]

3 hours ago, jakee said:

And he also engraved anti-fascist song lyrics that were (supposedly) popular among the Italian partisan resistance - a movement with a decent proportion of communists among their number.

That's actually a song that has become very popular with the Groypers.  The shooter mentioned to his family that Kirk was "full of hate and spreading hate" - a position that Nick Fuentes, leader of the Groypers, has espoused.  And Robinson posted at least one Groyper meme.

[nigel99 689]

2 hours ago, jakee said:

No idea what that means.

Unless he, y'know, turns out to be a lefty.

Athough they'd still be massive hypocrites in any case.

You’re right and Jerry posted an article about why it doesn’t matter either way. 

[Phil1111 1,263]

Here is the latest from the personal advisors to Trump, FOX news. After the National Guard was tasked to clear out the homeless camps in Washington D.C. on Trump's personal orders.

Brian Kilmeade, a FOX news presenter stated on the air that mentally ill and homeless people should be more aggressively detained and forcibly treated, Kilmeade added: "Or involuntary injection or something. Just kill 'em."

Trump has gutted social programs that have been proven to reduce crime and keep people off the street. Perhaps the new Trumpanomics views the most cost effective way of dealing with the mentally ill or homeless is just to kill them all. Trump "The federal government and the states have spent tens of billions of dollars on failed programs that address homelessness but not its root causes, leaving other citizens vulnerable to public safety threats."

No doubt Trump will take this advice to heart but as of yet his ICE storm troopers have not started executing the homeless.

Naturally the Trump right, the MAGA will soon come out with "Hillary said it first...or Biden ordered it first" 

Edited September 15 by Phil1111

[base698 20]

https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/52960-charlie-kirk-americans-political-violence-poll

 

Most Americans across the political spectrum say political violence is never justified, but younger and more liberal Americans are more likely to disagree

 

 

On 9/11/2025 at 5:07 PM, Phil1111 said:

Wrong Timothy McVeigh single handily puts the killed and injured by the right on top by a factor of ten.

I was starting 2010 onward.  Even so what I said was right wing incidents in general seem to cause more damage and the left ones are more targeted.  

I don't think Timothy McVeigh is a good model for what is happening today.  

 

On 9/11/2025 at 2:06 PM, jakee said:

So to be clear - you retract the title of this thread, you retract everything you said in your first post and you retract every conclusion that you stated as fact before you'd bothered to look for the information that showed you to be wrong?

Not EVERYTHING.  There is a general problem of political violence.  I don't want to be dragged out of my car and asked, "Do you believe in Jesus" or "Can men become pregnant" and get shot if I give the right answer.

 

[jakee 1,649]

27 minutes ago, base698 said:

Not EVERYTHING.  There is a general problem of political violence. 

Sure - but that’s definitely not what you started this thread to say. 
 

So to be clear - you retract the title of this thread that says it’s a left wing problem? You retract the entire premise of your OP that specifically the left ‘are the ones doing it’? You accept that you started this thread to present incorrect conclusions you had made from a position of ignorance? That is the case, yes?

[Phil1111 1,263]

On 9/11/2025 at 12:29 PM, base698 said:

...Or Russian Disinformation, disaffected Anonymous members, bored kids on 4chan, whatever your favorite bot source is....

Speaking of Russian disinformation and Kirk. Here is Kirk in the UK debating a Cambridge professor.

 

[dogyks 30]

9 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Speaking of Russian disinformation and Kirk. Here is Kirk in the UK debating a Cambridge professor.

 

That's one of the key points where I think Charlie Kirk was full of shit.

The treaty Yeltsin signed in 1997 acknowledged the territorial integrity of Ukraine.  Kirk's support of Russia's claim to Ukranian territory has all the charm of expecting someone faced with gang rape to be grateful if the number of rapists is somehow negotiated down.

I'm with Zelinskyy, per the UCMJ verbiage "any penetration, however slight..."

[nigel99 689]

https://web.archive.org/web/20250124114229/https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/what-nij-research-tells-us-about-domestic-terrorism

The DOJ deleted a paper showing far right terrorist attacks are the greatest threat to the US. Fortunately the internet tends to remember;)

“Since 1990, far-right extremists have committed far more ideologically motivated homicides than far-left or radical Islamist extremists, including 227 events that took more than 520 lives.[1] In this same period, far-left extremists committed 42 ideologically motivated attacks that took 78 lives.[2] A recent threat assessment by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security concluded that domestic violent extremists are an acute threat and highlighted a probability that COVID-19 pandemic-related stressors, long-standing ideological grievances related to immigration, and narratives surrounding electoral fraud will continue to serve as a justification for violent actions.”

Edited September 17 by nigel99

[dogyks 30]

1 hour ago, nigel99 said:

https://web.archive.org/web/20250124114229/https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/what-nij-research-tells-us-about-domestic-terrorism

The DOJ deleted a paper showing far right terrorist attacks are the greatest threat to the US. Fortunately the internet tends to remember;)

“Since 1990, far-right extremists have committed far more ideologically motivated homicides than far-left or radical Islamist extremists, including 227 events that took more than 520 lives.[1] In this same period, far-left extremists committed 42 ideologically motivated attacks that took 78 lives.[2] A recent threat assessment by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security concluded that domestic violent extremists are an acute threat and highlighted a probability that COVID-19 pandemic-related stressors, long-standing ideological grievances related to immigration, and narratives surrounding electoral fraud will continue to serve as a justification for violent actions.”

The reaction to Charlie Kirk's demise vs that of George Floyd is key to the perception. 

Some of Kirk's opponents voiced satisfaction at his termination and his supporters held vigils and wrote letters to the editor.

George Floyd's supporters looted, killed and burned.

My support of Charlie Kirk is limited to "nobody should be assassinated for voicing their opinion," regardless of whether I agree with them.

My support of George Floyd was limited to "no citizen is deserving of such treatment," and I hold in contempt those who used the injustice for racist purposes.

It is ironic that the results of a high profile killing are usually precisely the opposite of those intended by the killer.  The killing often energizes the base, and the replacement leadership is often much more toxic than that which was eliminated.  JFK and MLK come to mind.

While I found Kirk's counterpoint to the Woke stupidity amusing, the religious dreck was tough and his stance on Ukraine was repellent.  Just for starts.

In any event, I doubt if there will be anything like the gleeful, mindless violence resulting from Charlie Kirk's death that was so common after that of George Floyd.

[jakee 1,649]

27 minutes ago, dogyks said:

In any event, I doubt if there will be anything like the gleeful, mindless violence resulting from Charlie Kirk's death that was so common after that of George Floyd.

George Floyd was killed by the government, and the people used the power they had to send a message back to those they felt enabled and supported the killer.

Charlie Kirk was killed by a citizen, and the government is planning to use the power it has to send a message back to those they feel enabled and supported the killer.

It is odd that you think the former is more serious than the latter.

Edited September 17 by jakee

[GeorgiaDon 407]

I don't recall feeling afraid to voice an opinion in public after George Floyd was killed.  I do feel that way now.

[base698 20]

1 hour ago, GeorgiaDon said:

I don't recall feeling afraid to voice an opinion in public after George Floyd was killed.  I do feel that way now.

I certainly did at the time and I wasn’t even a right winger in 2020 yet.

[base698 20]

5 hours ago, nigel99 said:

https://web.archive.org/web/20250124114229/https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/what-nij-research-tells-us-about-domestic-terrorism

The DOJ deleted a paper showing far right terrorist attacks are the greatest threat to the US. Fortunately the internet tends to remember;)

“Since 1990, far-right extremists have committed far more ideologically motivated homicides than far-left or radical Islamist extremists, including 227 events that took more than 520 lives.[1] In this same period, far-left extremists committed 42 ideologically motivated attacks that took 78 lives.[2] A recent threat assessment by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security concluded that domestic violent extremists are an acute threat and highlighted a probability that COVID-19 pandemic-related stressors, long-standing ideological grievances related to immigration, and narratives surrounding electoral fraud will continue to serve as a justification for violent actions.”

It’s an overview, the sources are available.  Some notable things they include is prison violence done by white inmates.

From the removed "study" with no source data only citations:

>Since 1990,
far-right extremists have committed far more ideologically motivated
homicides than far-left or radical Islamist extremists, including 227
events that took more than 520 lives.1
 In this same period, far-left
extremists committed 42 ideologically motivated attacks that took
78 lives.2 

>The prevalence of particular movements can
ebb and flow over time depending on political climate
and law enforcement priorities, but at no point in
recent U.S. history has one set of beliefs completely
dominated extremism or hate crime activity.11 

The cited actual study: https://www.start.umd.edu/research-projects/extremist-crime-database-related-projects
includes prison violence and McVeigh which would make it closer to equal if you added tranny school shooters...  

 

[billvon 3,176]

10 minutes ago, base698 said:

It’s an overview, the sources are available.  

 

In a more graphical form:

[jakee 1,649]

16 minutes ago, base698 said:

, but at no point in
recent U.S. history has one set of beliefs completely
dominated extremism

But aren’t you the only person in this thread who has claimed that was the case?

Wasn't it the entire reason you started this thread?

 

 

Edited September 17 by jakee

[jakee 1,649]

19 minutes ago, base698 said:

I certainly did at the time and I wasn’t even a right winger in 2020 yet.

What were you afraid to say?

[base698 20]

17 minutes ago, jakee said:

But aren’t you the only person in this thread who has claimed that was the case?

Wasn't it the entire reason you started this thread?

 

 

The report which was removed said that.  If you read it.  The quote is from the report.

[base698 20]

27 minutes ago, billvon said:

In a more graphical form:

Where right winger extremists include prison killings done by white people.  One of the graphics going around includes McVeigh even though it happened in the 90s.  Also notably does not include Hale and a couple of other left wing attacks, also leaves out the Trump rally violence.

[jakee 1,649]

30 minutes ago, base698 said:

The report which was removed said that.  If you read it.  The quote is from the report.

The report said it wasn’t the case. You are the only person in this thread who said it was the case. You started this thread specifically to say it was the case. Despite much prompting you have not yet retracted those claims.

[base698 20]

43 minutes ago, jakee said:

The report said it wasn’t the case. You are the only person in this thread who said it was the case. You started this thread specifically to say it was the case. Despite much prompting you have not yet retracted those claims.

I quoted the report, did you not read it?  I stated by doing my own analysis:

The left has more incidents over all

The right incidents kill more people over all.

Exactly what the source data says.

In addition, like I stated you can even out the numbers where they are closer together by removing prison violence.

Edited September 17 by base698

[billvon 3,176]

1 hour ago, base698 said:

Where right winger extremists include prison killings done by white people.

Yep.  It includes ALL right wing extremist killings.  That's what we were comparing, right?  Right wing extremist violence vs left wing extremist violence?

Quote

 

The left has more incidents over all

The right incidents kill more people over all.

 

 

The right has both more incidents and more total killings.

[JerryBaumchen 1,493]

30 minutes ago, base698 said:

I quoted the report, did you not read it?  I stated by doing my own analysis:

The left has more incidents over all

The right incidents kill more people over all.

Exactly what the source data says.

In addition, like I stated you can even out the numbers where they are closer together by removing prison violence.

Hi base,

An 'incident' is an undefined term.

A 'killing' is a clearly defined term.

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 3,176]

From PNAS:  (Does not include Jan 6)

A comparison of political violence by left-wing, right-wing, andIslamist extremists in the United States and the world

"In this research we address these gaps by comparing the use of political violence by left-wing, right-wing, and Islamist extremists in the United States and worldwide using two unique datasets that cover real-world examples of politically motivated, violent behaviors. Across both datasets, we find that radical acts perpetrated by individuals associated with left-wing causes are less likely to be violent. In the United States, we find no difference between the level of violence perpetrated by right-wing and Islamist extremists."

"Our sample from the PIRUS data consisted of 1,563 individuals with a history of involvement in domestic extremist activities identified as affiliated with either a left-wing, right-wing, or Islamist ideological milieu. We included individuals whose public exposure occurred between 1948 and 2018. . .  .The dataset coded as violent cases where there was strong evidence that individuals were conspiring to kill or injure even if they failed to do so."

https://www.start.umd.edu/publication/comparison-political-violence-left-wing-right-wing-and-islamist-extremists-united