Murder on the high seas

[BIGUN 1,520]

The Coast Guard has the authority to enforce U.S. laws and regulations on vessels under specific conditions:

Flag State Jurisdiction: If a vessel is registered in the United States, the Coast Guard has full authority to board and inspect it, regardless of its location.

Hot Pursuit: The Coast Guard may pursue a vessel that is suspected of violating U.S. laws, even if that vessel is in international waters, provided the pursuit begins in U.S. waters.

Interdiction of Illegal Activities: The Coast Guard can stop vessels suspected of engaging in illegal activities, such as drug trafficking or human smuggling, even in international waters. This often involves cooperation with other nations and adherence to international law.

Safety and Environmental Concerns: The Coast Guard can also take action if a vessel poses a danger to navigation or is causing environmental harm.

There is an extension of 200 miles from US soil of a vessel headed toward the US afforded under the Monroe Doctrine and recognized by International Law.  

[jakee 1,622]

And which part of that do you think means that you are not categorically wrong? 

You do understand that if you were right, that list would have consisted only of the first bullet point. You do understand that the rest of the list - and crucially for this discussion the third one - prove that you are wrong.

You do understand that (from my link) 'south of Mexico' is not within 200 miles of the US coast. 'South of the Galapagos' is not within 200 miles of the US coast. You do understand that the boat from Venezuela was far closer to US territorial waters than any of the non-US flagged vessels interdicted by Operation Pacific Viper.

Yet despite all of this you'd rather keep lying and lashing out than simply acknowledging that you were wrong, and your support for the attack was based on a falsehood.

[Phil1111 1,234]

27 minutes ago, jakee said:

....Yet despite all of this you'd rather keep lying and lashing out than simply acknowledging that you were wrong, and your support for the attack was based on a falsehood.

A different opinion is not a lie.

[jakee 1,622]

20 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

A different opinion is not a lie.

It’s not an opinion - it’s a factual assertion that he knows is not true. I’m totally willing to accept that it was just a mistake when he first said it, but not now. He most definitely knows he is wrong, he is just physically incapable of saying so to me. 

[dogyks 24]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

The Coast Guard has the authority to enforce U.S. laws and regulations on vessels under specific conditions:

Flag State Jurisdiction: If a vessel is registered in the United States, the Coast Guard has full authority to board and inspect it, regardless of its location.

Hot Pursuit: The Coast Guard may pursue a vessel that is suspected of violating U.S. laws, even if that vessel is in international waters, provided the pursuit begins in U.S. waters.

Interdiction of Illegal Activities: The Coast Guard can stop vessels suspected of engaging in illegal activities, such as drug trafficking or human smuggling, even in international waters. This often involves cooperation with other nations and adherence to international law.

Safety and Environmental Concerns: The Coast Guard can also take action if a vessel poses a danger to navigation or is causing environmental harm.

There is an extension of 200 miles from US soil of a vessel headed toward the US afforded under the Monroe Doctrine and recognized by International Law.  

I am perfectly fine with being boarded by Coast Guard, who strictly follow the rules.  My documents are always in order, I keep all navigation and safety equipment operational and up to date, and I am profoundly grateful for the knowledge that they will routinely risk death to come to my aid if things go wrong.

I do not ever use, possess or transport proscribed drugs.  I have, however, been SWATted, and am not okay with getting blown out of the water on the basis of a false accusation.  I also had an altitude encoder say I was in Class A airspace when I was at 2,600 feet, and would hate to be targeted because of an instrument malfunction.

If simply following the rules kept one in the clear 100%, that would be one thing.  However, sending a get well card when the wrong boat gets hit isn't okay.

[Phil1111 1,234]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

It’s not an opinion - it’s a factual assertion that he knows is not true. I’m totally willing to accept that it was just a mistake when he first said it, but not now. He most definitely knows he is wrong, he is just physically incapable of saying so to me. 

Be it your debates with Joe or the substance in this thread. Sometimes your objectivity drifts off into Trumpish pissing.contests.

[jakee 1,622]

51 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Be it your debates with Joe or the substance in this thread. Sometimes your objectivity drifts off into Trumpish pissing.contests.

Really? Is this Trumpish? “you don't know shit from a good grade of peanut butter.” Because I didn’t say that, Bigun did.

What about this? “Now just piss the fuck off”? Because I didn’t say that, Bigun did. 
 

And that’s despite the fact that he’s wrong. Despite the fact that he knows he’s wrong. And he’s still behaving like that. So who should you be talking to about pissing contests? 

Edited Sunday at 03:23 PM by jakee

[JerryBaumchen 1,484]

10 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Your only reason to exist seems to be to come on here and try to push people's buttons. You could have done a simple Google search.

The U.S. Coast Guard has the authority to board your boat in international waters if it is a U.S.-flagged vessel or if you are planning to re-enter U.S. waters, but their jurisdiction over foreign-flagged vessels is more limited. The Coast Guard does not need a warrant or probable cause to board a vessel under U.S. jurisdiction and can inspect for safety, registration, and enforce national and international laws on the high seas.  

When the Coast Guard can board your boat in international waters:

U.S.-Flagged Vessels:

The Coast Guard can board any vessel flying the U.S. flag in international waters. 

Foreign Vessels and Re-entry to U.S. Waters:

The Coast Guard has authority to board foreign vessels if they are suspected of illegal activity and plan to re-enter U.S. waters, as this falls under the U.S.'s jurisdiction. 

Enforcing International and National Law:

.The Coast Guard's authority extends to enforcing national and international laws on the high seas. 

Reasons for boarding:

Safety Inspections:

The Coast Guard may board to ensure the vessel is properly registered and has necessary safety equipment. 

Law Enforcement:

The boarding can be to enforce federal and international laws related to the vessel, its crew, or its cargo. 

Authority for Boarding:

• The Coast Guard's authority to board is based on federal law, such as 14 USC 89, and does not require a warrant or a suspicion of a crime. 
• The Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable searches does not apply to vessels in the same way it does to homes. 

Consequences of Refusal: 

• Refusing entry to the Coast Guard during a boarding can lead to significant fines.

The Hearing Office often receives responses from charged parties demanding that their cases be dismissed because the Coast Guard “lacked probable cause” to stop and board their vessel. Moreover, they argue that any violation discovered during the boarding cannot be processed because the boarding was improper and in violation of their rights under the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution, which prohibits unlawful searches and seizures. The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution guards against unreasonable searches and seizures and requires warrants to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause.

VESSEL BOARDINGS AND COAST GUARD AUTHORITY

Written by CDR Mark Hammond

The courts have long held however, that it is not unreasonable for the Coast Guard to exercise plenary authority under Title 14 United States Code (USC) section 89 to stop and board vessels on the navigable waters of the United States to conduct safety and documentation inspections, even in the absence of a reasonable suspicion that some criminal activity is occurring. The Coast Guard exercises its broad authority to conduct vessel boarding's for the purpose of enforcing U.S. laws and regulations to promote marine safety, security and environmental protection. This authority extends to any vessel over which the United States has jurisdiction. This essentially means U.S. vessels anywhere outside the territorial waters of another country, and foreign vessels in U.S. waters.

Title 14 USC § 89 states in part: “(a) The Coast Guard may make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests upon the high seas and waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of laws of the United States. For such purposes, commissioned, warrant, and petty officers may at any time go on board of any vessel subject to the jurisdiction, or to the operation of any law, of the United States, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship’s documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance…”

For civil penalty cases forwarded to the Hearing Office, the Hearing Officer reviews each case to determine if there is sufficient evidence in the case file to make a preliminary determination that a violation has occurred and proceed with adjudication. This includes ensuring the Coast Guard has jurisdiction over the matter and the elements of the alleged violation are met based on the evidence. There may be cases where a party could reasonably argue that a denial of fundamental fairness, or actions that shock the conscience, undermine the credibility of the officials involved in a case and the reliability of the evidence those officials have offered. Arguments that the Coast Guard “did not have probable cause to conduct the boarding,” however, most often just show an unfamiliarity with the relevant law, as discussed above, and have no bearing on the determination of whether a violation of law or regulation was committed.

 

Hi Keith,

Thanks for doing that work to inform us.  I always appreciate that type of effort from you.

However, what you describe is due process; I am OK with that.

What Trump did in killing these 'suspected' criminals is NOT due process.  IMO it is murder.

Jerry Baumchen

[jakee 1,622]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Keith,

Thanks for doing that work to inform us.  I always appreciate that type of effort from you.

Except he's not informing you - he's claiming something completely different. Nothing in that wall of copy and paste remotely supports his claim. None of it says what he claims it does because he hasn't even bothered to make the effort of reading it.

He claims the Coast Guard could not have interdicted the boat in international waters. Not only does US law say that's absolute nonsense - reality says it's absolute nonsense. The US Coast Guard interdicts foreign cartel owned narco speedboats in international waters All. The Time.

[BIGUN 1,520]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Keith,

Thanks for doing that work to inform us.  I always appreciate that type of effort from you.

However, what you describe is due process; I am OK with that.

What Trump did in killing these 'suspected' criminals is NOT due process.  IMO it is murder.

Afternoon, Jerry. 

Thank you. It is a different level of Due Process called Substantive Due Process. And, to yours and Joe's point, while legal - is not very high on the bar of morality. Course, we have a new "Department of War" And a trillion dollar budget to flex. What could go wrong. Department of War - Jesus.  

~Keith  

[jakee 1,622]

51 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Afternoon, Jerry. 

Thank you. It is a different level of Due Process called Substantive Due Process.

Which has nothing to do with your blatantly false claim that the Coast Guard can’t interdict suspected narco boats in international waters unless they are US flagged.

[BIGUN 1,520]

1 minute ago, jakee said:

Which has nothing to do with your blatantly false claim

Jakee, We're done here. I'm putting you on block again. Do the same to me. 

[Phil1111 1,234]

6 hours ago, jakee said:

Really? Is this Trumpish? “you don't know shit from a good grade of peanut butter.” Because I didn’t say that, Bigun did.

What about this? “Now just piss the fuck off”? Because I didn’t say that, Bigun did. 
 

And that’s despite the fact that he’s wrong. Despite the fact that he knows he’s wrong. And he’s still behaving like that. So who should you be talking to about pissing contests? 

You

3 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Keith,

Thanks for doing that work to inform us.  I always appreciate that type of effort from you.

However, what you describe is due process; I am OK with that.

What Trump did in killing these 'suspected' criminals is NOT due process.  IMO it is murder.

Jerry Baumchen

As compared to respectful disagreement.

[jakee 1,622]

47 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Jakee, We're done here. I'm putting you on block again. Do the same to me. 

Yes, god forbid you could for once respond like a normal person instead. Much easier to just ignore any information you don't like, as always.

[jakee 1,622]

4 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

As compared to respectful disagreement.

And how do you compare respectful disagreement to how Bigun approached this conversation? In which case, who should you be talking to about Trumpish pissing contests?

[JerryBaumchen 1,484]

Hi folks,

It looks like, in my disdain of this act of murder, that I am not alone:  “What a despicable and thoughtless sentiment it is to glorify killing someone without a trial,” 

Rand Paul slams JD Vance's 'despicable' comments on alleged drug boat strike

Jerry Baumchen

[normiss 910]

On 9/6/2025 at 10:44 AM, BIGUN said:

Or, fill out the obligatory I-9 Form. What's the point of building a factory in the US if you're not going to employ American workers. 

Tax discounts, higher profits, increased bonuses.

I have physically removed network systems on Friday due to "layoffs" of American employees only to reinstall the same network on Monday for the German employees.

Those layoffs were bonus related. The advantages provided by the US gooberment can be very profitable.

This is why Westinghouse no longer exists. Bought out by foreign interests.

[normiss 910]

12 hours ago, BIGUN said:

The Coast Guard has the authority to enforce U.S. laws and regulations on vessels under specific conditions:

Flag State Jurisdiction: If a vessel is registered in the United States, the Coast Guard has full authority to board and inspect it, regardless of its location.

Hot Pursuit: The Coast Guard may pursue a vessel that is suspected of violating U.S. laws, even if that vessel is in international waters, provided the pursuit begins in U.S. waters.

Interdiction of Illegal Activities: The Coast Guard can stop vessels suspected of engaging in illegal activities, such as drug trafficking or human smuggling, even in international waters. This often involves cooperation with other nations and adherence to international law.

Safety and Environmental Concerns: The Coast Guard can also take action if a vessel poses a danger to navigation or is causing environmental harm.

There is an extension of 200 miles from US soil of a vessel headed toward the US afforded under the Monroe Doctrine and recognized by International Law.  

US Navy ain't Coast Guard and Coasties do not operate around the globe.

[JoeWeber 3,005]

On 9/6/2025 at 10:28 AM, BIGUN said:

No argument. Employers who do not fill out the I-9 should absolutely be held criminially and financially responsible. Otherwise, why even have an I-9 

It just cracks me up that anyone thinks anything other than flat stupidity is play here. We have masked ICE assholes sweeping up strawberry pickers and home roofers wherever you look and some dimwit thought hiding 400 illegal factory workers in the open would pass notice and earn a better placed cubicle. 

[billvon 3,151]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

It just cracks me up that anyone thinks anything other than flat stupidity is play here. 

When what you call "flat stupidity" gets you cheap labor, market dominance and profits, and moral intelligence gets you bankruptcy, you will see many people choosing profits over bankruptcy.

[JoeWeber 3,005]

Just now, billvon said:

When what you call "flat stupidity" gets you cheap labor, market dominance and profits, and moral intelligence gets you bankruptcy, you will see many people choosing profits over bankruptcy.

I didn't realize you believed simply getting away with something was smart business. 

[wmw999 2,621]

6 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

I didn't realize you believed simply getting away with something was smart business. 

To many in this world money is the stand-in for any sort of value, including intelligence. No matter how it’s gotten — “beating the system” is an American and a human game.

Wendy P. 

[normiss 910]

Pedo POTUS expert skills in international business relations, and the foreign investment he promised grinds to a halt.

Such a fucking moron. (that's my polite version)

[Phil1111 1,234]

5 minutes ago, normiss said:

Pedo POTUS expert skills in international business relations, and the foreign investment he promised grinds to a halt.

Such a fucking moron. (that's my polite version)

Moron is an understatement 18% of needed workforce is met. Yet the MAGA world is hiring new stormtroopers instead. 

"The United States is facing a critical shortage of skilled workers, particularly in STEM fields. The country is expected to need around 1 million additional STEM professionals between 2023 and 2033, with tech job growth outpacing the overall workforce, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

To fill this gap, the H-1B visa program, established in 1990, has been pivotal, allowing U.S. businesses to temporarily hire foreign workers in specialized fields. Employers and immigration attorneys petition for the visas on behalf of the foreign workers. 

Congress set a cap on the program of 65,000 visas annually, plus 20,000 additional visas for foreign workers holding advanced degrees from U.S. colleges.
The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services reported it received 470,000 H-1B petitions for fiscal year 2025, indicating continued demand from businesses despite the challenges for both employers and workers of navigating the visa process."

[Phil1111 1,234]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

To many in this world money is the stand-in for any sort of value, including intelligence. No matter how it’s gotten — “beating the system” is an American and a human game.

Wendy P. 

Nordic countries: The political parties respect each other and trust between them and the government is a given. The people trust the government.

America. The political parties are at war and one party the MAGA-republican party teaches that the government is evil.That it can't be trusted and tries to use the justice system against its citizens. The parties use the tax system to create winners and losers.