The Energy Future

[JerryBaumchen 1,489]

Hi folks,

There is a whole lot of talk going on about just what our energy future is to look like.

Some people want only 'Green' energy.  Others want nuclear.

I am completely opposed to nuclear because we cannot deal with the waste; and, I do not want to leave it for my grandchildren to deal with.

Here is one excellent example supporting my position:  WWII atomic waste contaminated a Missouri creek. People nearby had more cancer risk : Shots - Health News : NPR

Jerry Baumchen

[Phil1111 1,260]

The future of energy is renewable energy. "https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/16/climate/china-us-wind-solar-energy-trumpChina installed more wind and solar power in a single year than the total amount of renewable energy currently operating in the United States."

The current republican government has killed renewable clean energy. Its estimated that 21% of global energy demands will be consumed by data centres by 2030.

[wmw999 2,641]

The real future should be figuring how to use less of it in the first place. Fewer and more efficient lights, appliances, smaller cars and more mass transit. Insulation. And that’s just individuals.

There’s a reason the mantra starts with reduce

Wendy P. 

[JerryBaumchen 1,489]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

The future of energy is renewable energy. "https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/16/climate/china-us-wind-solar-energy-trumpChina installed more wind and solar power in a single year than the total amount of renewable energy currently operating in the United States."

The current republican government has killed renewable clean energy. Its estimated that 21% of global energy demands will be consumed by data centres by 2030.

Hi Phil,

IMO data centers are a plague on the states that have them.

- They consume a LOT of electricity

- They employ few workers

- The pay is rather low

- They always seem to be built out in fairly remote places where a lot of infrastructure has to be built to accommodate only them.

Not much to really offer to taking all of that juice.

Jerry Baumchen

[Phil1111 1,260]

45 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Phil,

IMO data centers are a plague on the states that have them.

- They consume a LOT of electricity

- They employ few workers

- The pay is rather low

- They always seem to be built out in fairly remote places where a lot of infrastructure has to be built to accommodate only them.

Not much to really offer to taking all of that juice.

Jerry Baumchen

I agree with much of that but IMO the leverage they provide for labour and productivity more than pays for itself. The economics of positioning them in Arizona, Texas and dry sunbelt states is a mystery to me. I think they should be just south of the Quebec border to take advantage of cheap hydro-power. But thats likely above my pay grade.

[billvon 3,170]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

The real future should be figuring how to use less of it in the first place. Fewer and more efficient lights, appliances, smaller cars and more mass transit. Insulation.

And far more efficient data centers.  Right now performance per dollar is the metric; it should be performance per joule.

[JerryBaumchen 1,489]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

The real future should be figuring how to use less of it in the first place. Fewer and more efficient lights, appliances, smaller cars and more mass transit. Insulation. And that’s just individuals.

There’s a reason the mantra starts with reduce

Wendy P. 

Hi Wendy,

I could not agree more; we must figure out how to use less of it in the first place.

Re:  Smaller cars

I've been a car guy since I bought my first gas-powered vehicle in the summer of 1954.

About 5 yrs ago, I was talking to my long-time auto mechanic just how could these small 4-cylinder engines could put out so much power.  He said that advances in fuel injection was the primary reason.

My first car was a 1947 Chevy with a 6-cylinder in-line engine - 216 cu inches/3.5l - 90 HP.

Toyota's latest in-line 4-cylinder engines - 122 cu inches/2.0l - over 400 HP Toyota's New 2.0-Liter Turbo Engine Makes Big Power

It is possible,

Jerry Baumchen

[JoeWeber 3,022]

Just now, billvon said:

And far more efficient data centers.  Right now performance per dollar is the metric; it should be performance per joule.

How many newtons does it take to move one bitcoin one meter?

[Phil1111 1,260]

14 hours ago, wmw999 said:

The real future should be figuring how to use less of it in the first place. Fewer and more efficient lights, appliances, smaller cars and more mass transit. Insulation. And that’s just individuals.

There’s a reason the mantra starts with reduce

Wendy P. 

5-8 solar panels of 400 watts are needed to drive this car BYD Seagull(Caresoft You-Tube review) 60 km a day. Car costs $11,500 USD. Panels, EV battery storage, inverters, cost (Billvon pipe in here). Probably $25,000-$35,000 all in.

Naturally republicans go for the $100,000 full load F-250 turbo diesel club cab truck.

[normiss 916]

13 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

How many newtons does it take to move one bitcoin one meter?

router>test cable-diagnostics tdr

[JerryBaumchen 1,489]

Hi folks,

I am a supporter of alternate energy.  I believe it is our only hope once the oil is gone.

To combat an energy shortage, Seattle looks to rural Oregon solar farms - oregonlive.com

IMO this is what we need more of.

Jerry Baumchen

[JerryBaumchen 1,489]

5 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

I am a supporter of alternate energy.  I believe it is our only hope once the oil is gone.

To combat an energy shortage, Seattle looks to rural Oregon solar farms - oregonlive.com

IMO this is what we need more of.

Jerry Baumchen

Hi folks,

Looks like The Donald does not agree:  Trump administration halts work on an offshore wind farm : NPR

Reminds me of how Hitler wanted Paris burned to the ground as they retreated.

Jerry Baumchen

[JoeWeber 3,022]

Just now, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

Looks like The Donald does not agree:  Trump administration halts work on an offshore wind farm : NPR

Reminds me of how Hitler wanted Paris burned to the ground as they retreated.

Jerry Baumchen

Good. Wind farms are a real pox on any landscape anywhere and they don't produce enough power per hour of ugly. That and we have no clue what to do with the blades at decommissioning. Better to build nuclear plants, fission, fusion, big, small, whatever, and be flummoxed by nuclear waste instead. AI is already increasing current electricity costs and forecast demand, as more centers come online, indicates even higher prices ahead if not rationing. Irritating as it is, seems to me that anyone planning to be dead in the next 20 years should be investing in fossil fuels. 

[Phil1111 1,260]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

Looks like The Donald does not agree:  Trump administration halts work on an offshore wind farm : NPR

Reminds me of how Hitler wanted Paris burned to the ground as they retreated.

Jerry Baumchen

When the cash from oil and gas ends renewables will look good again. Just like Tiktok and crypto Trump flips when there is something in it for him.

[kallend 2,216]

15 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Good. Wind farms are a real pox on any landscape anywhere and they don't produce enough power per hour of ugly. That and we have no clue what to do with the blades at decommissioning. Better to build nuclear plants, fission, fusion, big, small, whatever, and be flummoxed by nuclear waste instead. AI is already increasing current electricity costs and forecast demand, as more centers come online, indicates even higher prices ahead if not rationing. Irritating as it is, seems to me that anyone planning to be dead in the next 20 years should be investing in fossil fuels. 

I think they enhance the landscape in Kansas, Nebraska, central Illinois and Indiana.  Otherwise just mile after mile (km after km) of boring.

[normiss 916]

3 hours ago, kallend said:

I think they enhance the landscape in Kansas, Nebraska, central Illinois and Indiana.  Otherwise just mile after mile (km after km) of boring.

They also appear to be entertaining for use in BASE jumping and playing football with fan blades.

Nuclear doesn't even know what fun is.

[JerryBaumchen 1,489]

8 hours ago, kallend said:

I think they enhance the landscape in Kansas, Nebraska, central Illinois and Indiana.  Otherwise just mile after mile (km after km) of boring.

Hi John,

One thing about the mid-west, if come you over a slight rise you can see where you will be in 4 hours.

My folks are both from SE North Dakota.

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 3,170]

On 8/24/2025 at 11:52 AM, JoeWeber said:

Good. Wind farms are a real pox on any landscape anywhere and they don't produce enough power per hour of ugly. That and we have no clue what to do with the blades at decommissioning. 

And windmill cancer!  Don't forget about windmill cancer!  And the poor, poor eagles!  And the children!   WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

[nigel99 682]

11 hours ago, normiss said:

They also appear to be entertaining for use in BASE jumping and playing football with fan blades.

Nuclear doesn't even know what fun is.

I’ll be honest I don’t understand the resistance to nuclear. I know nuclear waste is expensive and complicated to store and get rid of.

That said it’s amazing how much energy people waste. I’ve got an 8kw solar system at home and my monthly bill is under $20 Aus ($10 USD). I run an aircon system in my bedroom and office 24/7 but its average consumption is 0.25 kWh and the rest of the home I just tolerate the heat and cold. You have to change habits though, dishwasher, pool pump and washing machine during daylight hours. 

[JoeWeber 3,022]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

And windmill cancer!  Don't forget about windmill cancer!  And the poor, poor eagles!  And the children!   WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

Excellent point. We can hang seats from the tips and sell rides.

[JerryBaumchen 1,489]

54 minutes ago, nigel99 said:

I’ll be honest I don’t understand the resistance to nuclear. I know nuclear waste is expensive and complicated to store and get rid of.

That said it’s amazing how much energy people waste. I’ve got an 8kw solar system at home and my monthly bill is under $20 Aus ($10 USD). I run an aircon system in my bedroom and office 24/7 but its average consumption is 0.25 kWh and the rest of the home I just tolerate the heat and cold. You have to change habits though, dishwasher, pool pump and washing machine during daylight hours. 

Hi Nigel,

Re:   I know nuclear waste is expensive and complicated to store and get rid of.

That, so far, is the understatement of the year.

Here's one for you:  Has any nuclear plant actually paid for itself ( total costs including decommissioning ) from the revenue it took in?

Jerry Baumchen

 

[JoeWeber 3,022]

27 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Nigel,

Re:   I know nuclear waste is expensive and complicated to store and get rid of.

That, so far, is the understatement of the year.

Here's one for you:  Has any nuclear plant actually paid for itself ( total costs including decommissioning ) from the revenue it took in?

Jerry Baumchen

 

True enough. On the other hand all bread got toasted and all 30 Rock shows got watched.