Unconditional Surrender demand

[billvon 3,099]

16 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I'm also asking why it's not ok to hate blacks, hispanics, Muslims, etc, but for the left Christianity is fair game.    

Well, I'm definitely left of center and I'm a Christian.  Maybe as long as I don't tell myself, I don't have to hate myself?

[BIGUN 1,469]

16 minutes ago, billvon said:

16 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I'm also asking why it's not ok to hate blacks, hispanics, Muslims, etc, but for the left Christianity is fair game.    

Well, I'm definitely left of center and I'm a Christian.

You must be a bad person. /Sarcasm.

[BIGUN 1,469]

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

I hate the influence of Christianity on our society including our military, not the adherents to the faith

What would you know about either?

[gowlerk 2,267]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

What would you know about either?

Maybe you could tell us. There has been a lot written about it to the point where it has just become common knowledge. 

[JoeWeber 2,912]

Just now, BIGUN said:

What would you know about either?

That's presumptuous. I know you mean the military and Christian adherents and not society and the military but it does come off as butt sore, to be frank. So what is your point, that unless you first believe it's God breathed you can't later know Jesus? 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Same with the military, only those who have served can have any informed opinion on what is a very large domain?

[jakee 1,586]

4 hours ago, BIGUN said:

What would you know about either?

Someone else you probably know recently said that the way to end anti-Christian hate is to stop talking about it.

Since you obviously feel so strongly about the issue it’s odd that you’re choosing to harp on about it and be part of the problem when you could instead just shut up, ignore it and be part of the solution. 

[JoeWeber 2,912]

56 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Maybe you could tell us. There has been a lot written about it to the point where it has just become common knowledge. 

It should be an absolute no brainer to explain why organizing your life around a belief that Jesus Christ is your savior is the only thing that makes sense. On the other hand, if it all comes down to that it just feels right and makes one feel good then we might just have a few follow on questions.

[BIGUN 1,469]

4 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Same with the military, only those who have served can have any informed opinion on what is a very large domain?

Pretty much. About as informed as someone driving past a dropzone and someone owning and operating one. Whose opinion would have more value.  

[JoeWeber 2,912]

12 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Pretty much. About as informed as someone driving past a dropzone and someone owning and operating one. Whose opinion would have more value.  

Nice try. Instead let’s use owning one and living next door to one for 30 years as the comparison. The neighbors opinion would have some value, no doubt, and even more if he was paying the rent so the kids could play.

Try something easier: tell me why I should accept Jesus Christ as my savior based on currently available, and provable, information. 

 

 

 

[BIGUN 1,469]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Try something easier: tell me why I should accept Jesus Christ as my savior based on currently available, and provable, information.

I cannot. Nor, would I ever. We're talking about bigotry. We're talking about a group of individuals of which I have no skin in the game, but which you feel it's alright to despise based on their belief. For me, it's the  same as hating trans or gay or . . . simply because they're different - whether they are biologically leaning or simply "believe" they are that way. 

We believe in freedom of choice. We believe in the right to pursue happiness. If your choices make you happy - how is that my business?  I don't have to agree, disagree or even undertand. But, what I can't do is berate you and those like you - for what you believe. That is bigotry. Plain and simple. 

[kallend 2,142]

42 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

 

We believe in freedom of choice. We believe in the right to pursue happiness. If your choices make you happy - how is that my business?  

That "we" clearly does not include those who try to impose their religious beliefs on everyone else by enshrining them in the law of the land.

[JoeWeber 2,912]

43 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

I cannot. Nor, would I ever. We're talking about bigotry. We're talking about a group of individuals of which I have no skin in the game, but which you feel it's alright to despise based on their belief. For me, it's the  same as hating trans or gay or . . . simply because they're different - whether they are biologically leaning or simply "believe" they are that way. 

We believe in freedom of choice. We believe in the right to pursue happiness. If your choices make you happy - how is that my business?  I don't have to agree, disagree or even undertand. But, what I can't do is berate you and those like you - for what you believe. That is bigotry. Plain and simple. 

I agree with the first two words, that is the only certainty when it comes to religion. Either you learn it on your mother’s knee or come to it by way of epiphany. But there is no explanation for it that agrees with rational explanation. What follows is simply not the case. It’s not about “hating “ no matter how many times you conflate race or sexuality with a belief system that is by any definition a matter of choice. And again no one hates the belief system or the believers, we hate having the precepts forced upon us and, to be honest, the free pass believers expect when asked to explain why they should own the allowance.

[jakee 1,586]

2 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I cannot. Nor, would I ever. We're talking about bigotry.

Why are you taking about it? You said the solution to bigotry is to stop talking about bigotry. Why are you actively perpetuating anti-Christian bigotry? 
 

Unless you maybe think racism is a much simpler and less important problem, so the rules are different for them than they are for you.

[jakee 1,586]

2 hours ago, BIGUN said:

But, what I can't do is berate you and those like you - for what you believe. That is bigotry. Plain and simple. 

So you’d never make a sweeping statement like, oh I don’t know, “‘the left’ thinks it’s ok to hate Christians” because that would itself be a display of bigotry? 
 

Because it obviously would be, wouldn’t it?

[normiss 886]

17 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

Some things you never forget:  are you going to tell us if SecDef, or anyones superior officer, suggests a prayer meeting come Saturday the invitee's will consider it optional?

A number of lifetimes ago, when I was in Basic Training, we had a choice; go to church or police the grounds for butts, etc.

A simple decision.

It didn't work.

Jerry Baumchen

 

I was a wee bit surprised in boot when "prayer" became a standing position.

Never went to church nor had group prayers while in the Navy.

 

[BIGUN 1,469]

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

It’s not about “hating “ no matter how many times you conflate race or sexuality with a belief system that is by any definition a matter of choice.

Nope. Bigotry is reasons for hating a group; such as nation of origin, religion, disability, gender identity, refugee status, and various combinations of all of these and more.

Bigotry is the umbrella. Everything else is a subset. Whitewash it all you want. Hate is hate. 

Edited Friday at 02:30 PM by BIGUN

[normiss 886]

3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I cannot. Nor, would I ever. We're talking about bigotry. We're talking about a group of individuals of which I have no skin in the game, but which you feel it's alright to despise based on their belief. For me, it's the  same as hating trans or gay or . . . simply because they're different - whether they are biologically leaning or simply "believe" they are that way. 

We believe in freedom of choice. We believe in the right to pursue happiness. If your choices make you happy - how is that my business?  I don't have to agree, disagree or even undertand. But, what I can't do is berate you and those like you - for what you believe. That is bigotry. Plain and simple. 

Trans or gay, unlike religious beliefs, isn't a choice.

If religious believers continue to refuse to accept that, maybe they should ask their invisible friend why he keeps making humans that way???

 

I have been berated my entire life by christians. In the kindest way I can find, I say they can go fuck themselves. I'm over being threatened to love an invisible non-existent ghost. That guy can go fuck himself too. I see what he does to humans.

[BIGUN 1,469]

1 minute ago, normiss said:

Trans or gay, unlike religious beliefs, isn't a choice.

But bigotry towards any of them is a choice. 

[wmw999 2,577]

50 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

But bigotry towards any of them is a choice. 

As is bigotry towards Muslims

Wendy P. 

[jakee 1,586]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

Bigotry is the umbrella. Everything else is a subset. Whitewash it all you want. Hate is hate. 

You said it should be whitewashed. You said it would help if everyone stopped looking for it and stopped pointing it out when they found it.

Why are the rules only different when it’s your pet cause?

[jakee 1,586]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

But bigotry towards any of them is a choice. 

And you in this thread have chosen to be bigoted against a group because of their general political beliefs.

Edited Friday at 04:19 PM by jakee

[JerryBaumchen 1,455]

9 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Pretty much. About as informed as someone driving past a dropzone and someone owning and operating one. Whose opinion would have more value.  

Hi Keith,

That all depends upon the issue.  And, you know that.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  Local farmers have closed more than a few dz's.

[BIGUN 1,469]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

As is bigotry towards Muslims

No argument. 

 

3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Bigotry is reasons for hating a group; such as nation of origin, religion, disability, gender identity, refugee status, and various combinations of all of these and more.

 

[BIGUN 1,469]

18 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Keith,

That all depends upon the issue.  And, you know that.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  Local farmers have closed more than a few dz's.

Afternoon, Jerry. I've modified the law somewhat.

Bigotry is reasons for hating a group; such as nation of origin, religion, disability, gender identity, refugee status, and various combinations of all of these and more including Dropzones. :)  

[JoeWeber 2,912]

Just now, BIGUN said:

Afternoon, Jerry. I've modified the law somewhat.

Bigotry is reasons for hating a group; such as nation of origin, religion, disability, gender identity, refugee status, and various combinations of all of these and more including Dropzones. :)  

Nice play. So now we atheists hate the disabled and the religious? You just refuse to give up on the hate thing. Do you know anyone who actually hates the disabled because of some law they required or just for giggles? Sure, everyone sensible is annoyed by those jerks with yappy dogs masquerading as service dogs, and asshats who use the handicap parking slot unfairly, or those who board the aircraft first out of selfishness, but I have never met one person who was bigoted against the disabled. You are really grasping now.

You know, outside of the religion topic, you have enormous respect here owing to your very intelligent and well supported views on a myriad of subjects. I have learned much from you, absolutely. Unfortunately on this topic of Christianity and your personal relationship to the belief system all of your usual facts and attendant support gets tossed in the bin and you just don't want to talk about it or justify it or own any bit of what religion does to we non-believers. Which, in my experience, here and elsewhere, is the norm. 

Edited Friday at 06:54 PM by JoeWeber