The future of the US

[JoeWeber 2,896]

3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

You don't understand the difference between martial law and assisting law enforcement as defined in the laws that not only I posted; but you posted.   

Fine. Let’s embrace the semantics and call what’s happening in LA a Special Military Operation.

[billvon 3,092]

10 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Fine. Let’s embrace the semantics and call what’s happening in LA a Special Military Operation.

A "limited police action!"

[gowlerk 2,262]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

My feels are the result of an undocumented person killing someone I knew. That is a fact. 

How do you feel about full citizens killing each other? Moral outrage is highly selective in all of us I suppose. 

[BIGUN 1,450]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Sorry to hear that, but it is still not a sound basis for national policy.

It is also a fact that if you are walking down a dark street at night, the person most likely to rob or kill you will be a citizen, not an undocumented immigrant.

Thanks, but that statistic may work in Chi-Town, but not in Tulsa and it didn't work for her. 

[jakee 1,582]

28 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Thanks, but that statistic may work in Chi-Town, but not in Tulsa 

On the evidence of this thread it seems extremely unlikely that you have actually  looked that up.

[JoeWeber 2,896]

2 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Thanks, but that statistic may work in Chi-Town, but not in Tulsa and it didn't work for her. 

I'm actually quite surprised that are using anecdotal evidence to support your position. What happened to your friend might have been tragic, depending on the circumstances, but it is certainly irrelevant to the real statistics that paint the big picture.

Going back to LA the rioters, and that they may now be legitimately called now that the looting has begun, are giving the goons and Trump all they need and more. It's all downhill from here.

[JerryBaumchen 1,451]

17 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I'm actually quite surprised that are using anecdotal evidence to support your position. What happened to your friend might have been tragic, depending on the circumstances, but it is certainly irrelevant to the real statistics that paint the big picture.

Going back to LA the rioters, and that they may now be legitimately called now that the looting has begun, are giving the goons and Trump all they need and more. It's all downhill from here.

Hi Joe,

As soon as I read about the first car burning, I knew that they had ruined things.

Jerry Baumchen

[JoeWeber 2,896]

22 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

As soon as I read about the first car burning, I knew that they had ruined things.

Jerry Baumchen

True liberal rioters to the core they burned self driving Waymo Robot Cabs so as, I can only imagine, to not offend anyone. 

[BIGUN 1,450]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

I'm actually quite surprised that are using anecdotal evidence to support your position. What happened to your friend might have been tragic, depending on the circumstances, but it is certainly irrelevant to the real statistics that paint the big picture.

I acknowledge my position is anecdotal evidence. But, I also came out in post 180 with a non-emotional response of:

What I disagree with is Trump finding ways around the court system to deport people without a hearing (Due Process). Stop the open doors, open ports, when undocumented are "identified" begin due process and vett them properly. If they been paying taxes, good members of the community. no history of crime in their country of origin. then there needs to be a pathway.

[JoeWeber 2,896]

17 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

I acknowledge my position is anecdotal evidence. But, I also came out in post 180 with a non-emotional response of:

What I disagree with is Trump finding ways around the court system to deport people without a hearing (Due Process). Stop the open doors, open ports, when undocumented are "identified" begin due process and vett them properly. If they been paying taxes, good members of the community. no history of crime in their country of origin. then there needs to be a pathway.

I know you have a wide view, no worries. 

[normiss 880]

On 6/8/2025 at 7:44 PM, BIGUN said:

Ken, you do not cite a source, so I don't know where you got this, but it is inaccurate. The Posse Comitatus Act creates a general rule that it is unlawful for federal military forces to engage in civilian law enforcement activities - even if they are merely supplementing rather than supplanting civilian authorities - except when doing so is expressly authorized by Congress. 

~Jennifer K. Elsea, The Posse Comitatus Act and Related Matters: The Use of the Military to Execute Civilian Law, CRS report no. R42659 (Washington, DC: Congressional Research Service, 2018)

The Posse Comitatus Act and Related Matters.pdf 1.44 MB · 2 downloads

Welcome to today!

[BIGUN 1,450]

7 hours ago, normiss said:

Welcome to today!

Man, that's no shit. 

[jakee 1,582]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

Man, that's no shit. 

In other words, you were totally wrong both about what the law says and whether the law is actually a barrier on what the President can and can’t do?

[dogyks 13]

46 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Man, that's no shit. 

A friend was with the 82nd Airborne deployed to Ohio during the turmoil surrounding our involvement in Southeast Asia.  His unit had been well trained in crowd control and de-escalation.

The National Guard OTOH had just come from a very tense miner's strike, were overtired, not trained in nonviolent response to provocation, and sent into an increasingly violent scene where protesters were burning buildings and so forth.

They were also issued live ammunition.

The decision was made to use the National Guard for the sake of legality, resulting in "four dead in Ohio."

I'm trying to think of a conflict between rioters and military/paramilitary forces that ended well and nothing comes to mind. 

During the Chicago Democratic Convention, when the cops started talking off their badges it was time to get out of Lincoln Park ASAP. The optics helped Tricky Dick beat Hube the Cube.

In Chile the Carabinieros expressed sympathy for protesters wanting a new constitution.  It was pretty contentious, but a new constitution eventually resulted so I suppose that's about the best outcome I can think of.  Since the bulk of the protesters were in fact peaceful people showing up after work on Friday, the tone was somewhat different.

The leadership of current administration is given to such inelegant handling of E) All the above that the actual merits of their position on one thing or another become largely immaterial.  A policy that could make perfect sense if implemented by someone competent becomes lunacy at the hands of Trump, so it becomes problematic.  He has the Midas touch where everything turns to shit and gets gold plated.

 

[jakee 1,582]

2 hours ago, dogyks said:

A policy that could make perfect sense if implemented by someone competent becomes lunacy at the hands of Trump, so it becomes problematic.  He has the Midas touch where everything turns to shit and gets gold plated.

 

And that’s what you voted for.

[billvon 3,092]

On 6/10/2025 at 5:47 AM, jakee said:

And that’s what you voted for.

Well, at least he wasn't a brown woman with a stupid laugh.  There is NOTHING worse than that.

 

[JoeWeber 2,896]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Well, at least he wasn't a brown woman with a stupid laugh.  There is NOTHING worse than that.

 

No kidding, world leaders would be laughing at us.

[kallend 2,129]

I'm not clear why these "no kings" events and slogans are so popular. 

Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, UK, Netherlands, Belgium, Japan . . .  all have monarchies and democracy seems to be doing better there than here in the US right now. 

[BIGUN 1,450]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, UK, Netherlands, Belgium, Japan . . .  all have monarchies and democracy seems to be doing better there than here in the US right now.

Because those countries began shifting to a republic in the 20th century with a monarchy as mostly ceremonial, whereas the US seems to be shifting from a republic to a monarchy?

[kallend 2,129]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

Because those countries began shifting to a republic in the 20th century with a monarchy as mostly ceremonial, whereas the US seems to be shifting from a republic to a monarchy?

The UK monarch has been essentially powerless since Charles I was beheaded by order of Parliament in 1649, and the English Bill of Rights passed in 1689.

[kallend 2,129]

Can anyone explain how this differs from the Gestapo or Stasi?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/06/11/immigration-arrests-ice-raid-masks/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=wp_opinions

[BIGUN 1,450]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

The UK monarch has been essentially powerless since Charles I was beheaded by order of Parliament in 1649, and the English Bill of Rights passed in 1689.

"Countries" as a whole, not just the UK

[nigel99 599]

3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Because those countries began shifting to a republic in the 20th century with a monarchy as mostly ceremonial, whereas the US seems to be shifting from a republic to a monarchy?

One of my all time favourite jokes. 
 

Donald Trump is meeting The Queen, and he says to her:

“As I'm the President, I'm thinking of changing how the country is referred to, and I'm thinking that it should be a Kingdom."

To which the Queen replies. ‘I'm sorry Mr Trump, but to be a Kingdom, you have to have a King in charge - and you're not a King."

Donald Trump thought a while and then said: "How about a Principality then?" to which the Queen replied, "Again, to be a Principality you have to be a Prince - and you're not a Prince, Mr Trump”

Trump thought long and hard and came up with, "How about an Empire then?" The Queen, getting a little pissed off by now replied, " Sorry again, Mr Trump, but to be an Empire you must have an Emperor in charge - and you are not an Emperor."

Before Trump could utter another word, The Queen said: "I think you're doing quite nicely as a Country."

[dogyks 13]

3 hours ago, kallend said:

Can anyone explain how this differs from the Gestapo or Stasi?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/06/11/immigration-arrests-ice-raid-masks/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=wp_opinions

Mostly the dental plan.

[kallend 2,129]

4 hours ago, BIGUN said:

"Countries" as a whole, not just the UK

There's a lot to be said for having a head of state who isn't a major asshole.