Drugs - Health not criminal problem

[nigel99 588]

I’m extremely frustrated with the Australian model of dealing with substance abuse. Particularly because my son is affected and the system is broken.

Substance abuse is closely tied in with mental health problems. Admittedly the government is doing a lot to implement good quality support services. 

There are two major obstacles though. Firstly because drugs are illegal and the structure of the system is that your first point of contact is the police it’s very difficult to engage. Getting a prison sentence or suspended sentence only has negative outcomes. There is abundant evidence to support that. It can be very hit and miss if you call the police if you’ll get a supportive officer or a crack down on crime officer.

Secondly we have very strong deprivation of liberty laws. The bar for compulsory admission to a mental health facility is extremely high and requires a clear danger to others. Voluntary admission support is fantastic though.

Try dealing with someone who has not slept in 3 days and is aggressive and unstable, lives at home and has nowhere ‘safe’ to go. You quickly find the limits of the support system.

[wmw999 2,560]

It must be really hard to deal with this; I think the system is broken everywhere, it sure is here in the US. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.

Wendy P.

[nigel99 588]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

It must be really hard to deal with this; I think the system is broken everywhere, it sure is here in the US. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.

Wendy P.

Tricky issue in society. I’m sure there is no magic wand, although decriminalisation of use would be a big step forwards.

[JoeWeber 2,871]

8 hours ago, nigel99 said:

I’m extremely frustrated with the Australian model of dealing with substance abuse. Particularly because my son is affected and the system is broken.

Substance abuse is closely tied in with mental health problems. Admittedly the government is doing a lot to implement good quality support services. 

There are two major obstacles though. Firstly because drugs are illegal and the structure of the system is that your first point of contact is the police it’s very difficult to engage. Getting a prison sentence or suspended sentence only has negative outcomes. There is abundant evidence to support that. It can be very hit and miss if you call the police if you’ll get a supportive officer or a crack down on crime officer.

Secondly we have very strong deprivation of liberty laws. The bar for compulsory admission to a mental health facility is extremely high and requires a clear danger to others. Voluntary admission support is fantastic though.

Try dealing with someone who has not slept in 3 days and is aggressive and unstable, lives at home and has nowhere ‘safe’ to go. You quickly find the limits of the support system.

That’s rough. It’s sad how we’ve all stigmatized mental health issues. That’s especially so given how little we know about the brains workings and how obviously crappy the rest of our systems work. Hang in there for the better times to come.

[billvon 3,090]

Most governments have only one way of dealing with societal problems like drugs.  They outlaw them.  When all you have is a hammer . . . 

[RonD1120 62]

My heart goes out to your son and you. In the U.S. treatment can be obtained voluntarily and anonymously. Looks like as long as he does not harm himself or others, you are just going to have to ride it out. That may take a while.

[wmw999 2,560]

How're you doing, Ron? Did the hurricane damage where you are? 

Wendy P.

[Phil1111 1,149]

10 hours ago, nigel99 said:

Tricky issue in society. I’m sure there is no magic wand, although decriminalisation of use would be a big step forwards.

British Columbia tried this already.  British Columbia drops decriminalization of drugs in public  IMO mandatory drug rehab laws are necessary. Mandatory testing for anyone charged with a crime and testing for anyone receiving government support payments. The treatment centres should be welcoming,lots of programs, good food, etc. Obviously a person has to decide for themselves that they have to walk away from drugs. So it may take a couple rehab trips, or more.

British Columbia drops decriminalization of drugs in public

So did Oregon When Policy Isn’t Enough: Recriminalization in Oregon

[nigel99 588]

11 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

British Columbia tried this already.  British Columbia drops decriminalization of drugs in public  IMO mandatory drug rehab laws are necessary. Mandatory testing for anyone charged with a crime and testing for anyone receiving government support payments. The treatment centres should be welcoming,lots of programs, good food, etc. Obviously a person has to decide for themselves that they have to walk away from drugs. So it may take a couple rehab trips, or more.

British Columbia drops decriminalization of drugs in public

So did Oregon When Policy Isn’t Enough: Recriminalization in Oregon

Those are interesting articles. We aren’t decriminalised for personal use, which would make a difference. There’s also something about culture that plays a part. A couple of European countries have decriminalised with good results. 

But it’s probably the same as it is with alcohol. Lots of Europe you can drink all day and they don’t have problems, try that in the UK or Australia and you’d have problems.

[winsor 236]

19 hours ago, nigel99 said:

I’m extremely frustrated with the Australian model of dealing with substance abuse. Particularly because my son is affected and the system is broken.

Substance abuse is closely tied in with mental health problems. Admittedly the government is doing a lot to implement good quality support services. 

There are two major obstacles though. Firstly because drugs are illegal and the structure of the system is that your first point of contact is the police it’s very difficult to engage. Getting a prison sentence or suspended sentence only has negative outcomes. There is abundant evidence to support that. It can be very hit and miss if you call the police if you’ll get a supportive officer or a crack down on crime officer.

Secondly we have very strong deprivation of liberty laws. The bar for compulsory admission to a mental health facility is extremely high and requires a clear danger to others. Voluntary admission support is fantastic though.

Try dealing with someone who has not slept in 3 days and is aggressive and unstable, lives at home and has nowhere ‘safe’ to go. You quickly find the limits of the support system.

When I was 13 my life expectancy was given in minutes and I was given enough pain killer meds to knock out a horse.  I survived with some minor insight into addiction.

One effect of those drugs is profound indifference.  Things that should matter simply don't.

Getting clean requires faith - not so much in a Prime Mover of the Universe as that the trials and tribulations of life can be faced with serenity.  Things don't change but we can.

My last beer was when Ronald Reagan was in office so my experience is dated, but the weird thing is that being clean and sober has precisely nothing to do with drink or drugs and everything to do with living life on life's terms.

With a good support system and the willingness to change, he has a shot.

 

Good luck,

Winsor

[Phil1111 1,149]

2 hours ago, nigel99 said:

...

But it’s probably the same as it is with alcohol. Lots of Europe you can drink all day and they don’t have problems, try that in the UK or Australia and you’d have problems.

Too funny

[riggerrob 643]

The main reason that British Columbia de-criminalized small amounts of recreational drugs for personal use was that prisons were getting clogged with people convicted of possessing small amounts of recreational drugs. IOW the province of B.C. was not willing to pay to incarcerate petty criminals.

I have to laugh at some of the ways that gov't has tried to control recreational drugs.

Look at failed attempts to prohibit alcohol.

Marijuana was the third most popular recreational drug in BC.

Conservative Prime Minister Harper waited until he - and his buddies - figured out how to regulate and tax marijuana. Now there is a cannabis dispensary on every major street in B.C.

The problem now is that new drugs now dominate the criminal class and gov't regulations are too slow to respond. The illicit drug market was dominated by methamphetamines a decade ago. Now the market is dominated by cheap fentanol imported from China.

Granted, many addicts came from broken homes and suffered troublesome childhoods, which led them to self-medicate with recreational drugs. The old drugs - like alcohol or marijuana - only killed people slowly. But now modern synthetic drugs ruin brain cells after a few months use, making it impossible for addicts to ever be contributing members of society.

I reached these conclusions after driving a city bus through Vancouver's notorious "Downtown East Side" for 3 years.

[RonD1120 62]

On 10/8/2024 at 5:31 PM, wmw999 said:

How're you doing, Ron? Did the hurricane damage where you are? 

Wendy P.

Thanks for asking. No problems here either with Helene or Milton. Helen went by to the east and we just had rain. Milton hit all our friends and family in central FL. No injury or damage to them, just loss of power. PTL!

Me, I have completed my fourth of six chemo treatments for metastatic prostate cancer. So far it is working. I give to glory to God.

I am very concerned about the status of America. A dark sense of forboding overwhelms me at times but I know it is all part of God's mosaic and plan for the end times.

As many veterans are saying, "I was willing to give my life for my country. Now I am not so sure I can live for it."

[normiss 873]

1 hour ago, RonD1120 said:

Thanks for asking. No problems here either with Helene or Milton. Helen went by to the east and we just had rain. Milton hit all our friends and family in central FL. No injury or damage to them, just loss of power. PTL!

Me, I have completed my fourth of six chemo treatments for metastatic prostate cancer. So far it is working. I give to glory to God.

I am very concerned about the status of America. A dark sense of forboding overwhelms me at times but I know it is all part of God's mosaic and plan for the end times.

As many veterans are saying, "I was willing to give my life for my country. Now I am not so sure I can live for it."

Good to hear you're having successful treatments Ron, I wish you continued luck with that.

Some of us Veterans are looking forward to the end of MAGA and the return of what America actually IS.

[JerryBaumchen 1,451]

19 minutes ago, normiss said:

Good to hear you're having successful treatments Ron, I wish you continued luck with that.

Some of us Veterans are looking forward to the end of MAGA and the return of what America actually IS.

Hi Mark,

This veteran sure is.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  You getting any services  back on where you live?