Fall of democracy

[nigel99 599]

Watching the US over the past 8 or so years it looks and feels like the rich and powerful exert undue and excessive influence on the US. 

Social groups form strong bonds, even if they have internal disagreements. Take skydiving as an example, we all socialise and will get together even with vastly different political opinions.

It is natural and normal that the rich and powerful form a social group as they have something in common. For the most part the very wealthy tend to be narcissistic and forceful (bullies). It doesn’t matter if it’s Murdoch, Gates, Musk etc. It’s not even necessarily a bad thing that they scratch each other’s backs and exchange favours.

The problem is the that within the US system it has become blurred and there is no firewall between politics and the public rich and powerful. It’s something you see in Russia and many other despotic states and the foundations have been laid over decades in the US. The end result for the US is Emperor god Trump. 

Democracy was and is intended to counter those forces. What we are seeing is that without strong protections in place democracy slips into a corrupt puppeteer class for the powerful. It’s insidious and creeps up on us all. I wish there was an obvious and easy answer to put power back in the hands of the people. The problem is that it is so ingrained already that it’s not going to come from within. Social media provides a voice to the masses, but it is unregulated and run by the rich. So by its very nature is open to manipulation and misinformation. 

My Damascus moment on the news and government was the WMD saga and the gulf war, where in the UK the government encouraged or allowed the media to spin the WMD narrative and yet the actual reports that were available contradicted it. I’ll be honest I feel a bit sad and defeated by it all. I’ve just turned 50 and I suspect it will deteriorate substantially during my lifetime, although probably not in a way that directly impacts my personal quality of life. I worry for my children though and what their future holds. 

[Phil1111 1,149]

Power corrupts most politicians and every political party.. But such power is brought under control through free elections. With the arrogant and careless removed from power. But democracy is messy with individuals and groups using every measure to gain advantages.

Checks on the system are a free and vigorous press. A motivated and engaged electorate.A full and fair justice system with equal access for all. But the pull of corruption, of self interest and of power. Is always corroding those checks on the system. The press becomes aligned to propaganda. Judges put political interests above integrity. The electorate disengages, becomes aligned with baser instincts and lets propaganda sway ideals.

1 hour ago, nigel99 said:

...It is natural and normal that the rich and powerful form a social group as they have something in common. For the most part the very wealthy tend to be narcissistic and forceful (bullies). It doesn’t matter if it’s Murdoch, Gates, Musk etc. It’s not even necessarily a bad thing that they scratch each other’s backs and exchange favours....

Here is where I disagree with you. The rich are not a homogeneous group with wealth generation and preservation at the fore. Gates and Warren Buffet have the largest active charity going. They along with about 100 other very rich people have pledged to give their wealth away. Other billionaires like Bloomberg, Soros, etc. are very closely aligned with democratic or left of center causes. Elon Musk is an exception as he has gifted little in proportion of his wealth. Likely why he identifies so closely with Trump.

The US is not alone with its current endorsement of populism. Hungary is very similar to the current US experience. France just about elected Le Pen who models herself to the far right like Trump. Turkey has had a populist leader for a while.

Wealth inequality has increased in the US in the last decade. More so than any other time in history. Democrats have attempted to address this but the checks and balances keep change at bay. The division of house, senate and the presidency has limited real actions. If you watch US business news channels they frequently mention that business and investors like divided government. It means nothing will change.

[wmw999 2,565]

Personally I think that the replacement of print news sources with internet design-your-own-beliefs "news" sources is a real erosion of a free and independent press. Simply because you can't tell about each one. The number is so huge; it's not like looking for the guy from the Moonie newspaper, or the one from Mother Earth News.

Wendy P.

[JoeWeber 2,890]

5 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

They along with about 100 other very rich people have pledged to give their wealth away.

That was in 2010 when he had $53 Billion. Today he has $135 Billion. He's actually trying to build a perpetual giving machine that makes more than it gives. He does good but I'd rather he did the good here in America on his own cue and let our government decide what international charities to support with tax dollars he paid in. I am just not a fan of our foreign policy being managed by our own oligarchs. And if he and his morbidly wealthy comrades really didn't believe in a divided and weak democracy they could step right up and toss a paltry 1/2 billion into the DNC coffers to better Musks $180 Billion promised to Trump and then even more when Musk upped the ante. But they won't.

Edited July 16, 2024 by JoeWeber

[Phil1111 1,149]

28 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

That was in 2010 when he had $53 Billion. Today he has $135 Billion. He's actually trying to build a perpetual giving machine that makes more than it gives. He does good but I'd rather he did the good here in America on his own cue and let our government decide what international charities to support with tax dollars he paid in. I am just not a fan of our foreign policy being managed by our own oligarchs. ...

We'll have to agree to disagree. So the best, richest, most free, #1, most powerful country in the world should not help poor countries? Act to eliminate diseases and vaccinate the poor? Especially when their profits are gained through business activities all over the world.

I think he needs to do more to save cats, help cats, in other third world counties as well.

[wmw999 2,565]

Remember that whole "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely?"

Well, unfettered capitalism, with corporations ruling the government, means that money does, in fact, provide absolute power. So we're depending on the "good dictator" when we turn that much over to individuals. And for every Buffett and Gates, there's a Jeff Bezos who says "mine, all mine," until he, too, decides to exert some of that financial power. Like Musk.

Wendy P.

[nigel99 599]

19 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Remember that whole "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely?"

Well, unfettered capitalism, with corporations ruling the government, means that money does, in fact, provide absolute power. So we're depending on the "good dictator" when we turn that much over to individuals. And for every Buffett and Gates, there's a Jeff Bezos who says "mine, all mine," until he, too, decides to exert some of that financial power. Like Musk.

Wendy P.

Agreed

[JoeWeber 2,890]

Just now, Phil1111 said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. So the best, richest, most free, #1, most powerful country in the world should not help poor countries? Act to eliminate diseases and vaccinate the poor? Especially when their profits are gained through business activities all over the world.

I think he needs to do more to save cats, help cats, in other third world counties as well.

There are plenty of cats, in most places too many, actually. Of course the country should and do so with tax money from the oligarchs. But the oligarchs who launched their companies in America should limit their largesse to America and should not be conducting foreign policy as individuals or foundations.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

15 hours ago, nigel99 said:

Watching the US over the past 8 or so years it looks and feels like the rich and powerful exert undue and excessive influence on the US. 

I truly believe that history will show Citizens United to be the end of the USA.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

12 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

If you watch US business news channels they frequently mention that business and investors like divided government. It means nothing will change.

Which isn't a good thing.

[JoeWeber 2,890]

Just now, SkyDekker said:

I truly believe that history will show Citizens United to be the end of the USA.

Thanks, neighbor.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

1 minute ago, JoeWeber said:

Thanks, neighbor.

Pretty sure we had nothing to do with it, but unrest in the US will eventually significantly impact Canada as well. So, the thanks all belong to you...

[JoeWeber 2,890]

Just now, SkyDekker said:

Pretty sure we had nothing to do with it, but unrest in the US will eventually significantly impact Canada as well. So, the thanks all belong to you...

Sure, no problemo, and if you think the Chinese drove up Vancouver real estate prices stand by. 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

1 minute ago, JoeWeber said:

if you think the Chinese drove up Vancouver real estate prices

They did.