EV trip in the real world

[JerryBaumchen 1,454]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

As I've said before there are plusses and minuses to both and a market for both.  Where I have a problem is being forced to own an EV.  That day is coming

Hi airdvr,

In your entire lifetime, what have you been forced to own?

Jerry Baumchen

[olofscience 492]

6 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Shall I continue?

Everything you mentioned was states forcing car companies to sell EVs, not forcing ordinary people to buy them.

 

You're not even forced to buy a car at all - if you have a horse-drawn carriage you can keep using it, but I don't see you arguing that horse-drawn carriage owners' freedoms are being impinged when you can't buy one at your local car dealership.

[BIGUN 1,463]

8 minutes ago, olofscience said:

if you have a horse-drawn carriage you can keep using it, but I don't see you arguing that horse-drawn carriage owners'

You think gas is expensive; try feeding five horses in the winter. 

[SethInMI 174]

7 hours ago, normiss said:

That's a very inexpensive add

I have added 50A outlets in my house, my brother's house, and sister's house.  They all varied in effort. Mine was hardest, service entrance was on other side of ranch, had to run 100ft of wire to garage.  Brother's panel was in basement next to garage wall, so just over and up.  Sister's was in the garage, so like yours, a bit of EMT out of the panel.

But I was actually thinking of my European colleagues with their all masonry houses and often detached garages.  In that situation, if I had 2.5kW available (220v residential) I might just go with that, it can replace 100 miles in an overnight. 

[billvon 3,096]

46 minutes ago, airdvr said:

I hope you're right.  Is see CA at the forefront of pushing people to EVs.  

California – In 2022, California approved a rule requiring 100% of new light- and medium-duty vehicles sold in the state to be zero-emission by 2035.
 

Delaware – In late 2023, Delaware finalized its clean car regulations. In 2027, 43% of new cars and trucks sold in Delaware will be electric or hybrid models. This percentage will increase to 82% in 2032, and the rule will expire the following year.

Illinois – By 2035, auto manufacturers must sell 100% new ZEVs. All vehicles purchased and leased by a governmental unit after January 1, 2025, must be zero-emission or converted to zero emissions.

Shall I continue?

California - "zero emission car" does not equal EV.  It also includes hydrogen cars and PHEVs, for example, which you can drive just like a gas car.  (i.e. never charge it.)  So no, even if it becomes reality, it will not force you to buy an EV.

And if it's anything like the last one it never will become reality.  The "ZEV Mandate" was passed in 1990 in California, and required some percentage of cars sold in California in 1995 to be zero emission.  Then they delayed it to 1998.  Then they said "well we'll make a category called PZEV which stands for partial ZEV vehicles which are just clean gas cars, but if you sell five of them it counts for one real ZEV."  Then they created a whole new slew of classifications for gas cars, each of which gave you partial credit - PZEV, SULEV, LEV, ULEV.   It did force the creation of the GM Impact (the first mass market EV) but that was about it.  So you won't see it in action in your lifetime.

Delaware - hybrids are gas cars, and several manufacturers have "weak hybrids" with a hybrid system tacked on for very little $$.  They are basically gas cars with a larger alternator/starter motor.  So manufacturers will sell exactly the same cars and trucks with one of these bolted on.

Illinois - won't happen.  And they don't have the money or infrastructure to make it happen.

So I am confident that you won't see anyone forced to buy an EV in the US in your lifetime.

[JoeWeber 2,901]

Just now, billvon said:

California - "zero emission car" does not equal EV.  It also includes hydrogen cars and PHEVs, for example, which you can drive just like a gas car.  (i.e. never charge it.)  So no, even if it becomes reality, it will not force you to buy an EV.

And if it's anything like the last one it never will become reality.  The "ZEV Mandate" was passed in 1990 in California, and required some percentage of cars sold in California in 1995 to be zero emission.  Then they delayed it to 1998.  Then they said "well we'll make a category called PZEV which stands for partial ZEV vehicles which are just clean gas cars, but if you sell five of them it counts for one real ZEV."  Then they created a whole new slew of classifications for gas cars, each of which gave you partial credit - PZEV, SULEV, LEV, ULEV.   It did force the creation of the GM Impact (the first mass market EV) but that was about it.  So you won't see it in action in your lifetime.

Delaware - hybrids are gas cars, and several manufacturers have "weak hybrids" with a hybrid system tacked on for very little $$.  They are basically gas cars with a larger alternator/starter motor.  So manufacturers will sell exactly the same cars and trucks with one of these bolted on.

Illinois - won't happen.  And they don't have the money or infrastructure to make it happen.

So I am confident that you won't see anyone forced to buy an EV in the US in your lifetime.

Besides, it’s good training for the real future, not the fake future they keep forcing on us . I mean, just wait until you’re forced to pay more taxes for one of those new fangled eye regenerators for kids or, worse , one of those stupid Dyson spheres the solar alarmists are screaming about.

[gowlerk 2,266]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

 

Shall I continue?

I’m of the opinion that many of these goals are unreachable and will fall by the wayside. 

[normiss 883]

3 hours ago, airdvr said:

I hope you're right.  Is see CA at the forefront of pushing people to EVs.  

California – In 2022, California approved a rule requiring 100% of new light- and medium-duty vehicles sold in the state to be zero-emission by 2035.
 

Delaware – In late 2023, Delaware finalized its clean car regulations. In 2027, 43% of new cars and trucks sold in Delaware will be electric or hybrid models. This percentage will increase to 82% in 2032, and the rule will expire the following year.

Illinois – By 2035, auto manufacturers must sell 100% new ZEVs. All vehicles purchased and leased by a governmental unit after January 1, 2025, must be zero-emission or converted to zero emissions.

Shall I continue?

So what's the used and collector market look like??

[tkhayes 348]

4 hours ago, airdvr said:

As I've said before there are plusses and minuses to both and a market for both.  Where I have a problem is being forced to own an EV.  That day is coming

when we went from horses and wagons to cars, the same arguments were made.  No one was ever forced to own a car, you could and still can go by horse and buggy.  Why do you use cars when you could use Horses and buggies?

Show us any legislation that says you will be forced to own an EV car.  Do those bills also include the destruction of all gasoline and diesel powered automobiles?  and the elimination of all parts availability for them?

tired of the boogeyman scenarios, especially when we are talking about a consumer product.

[olofscience 492]

9 hours ago, tkhayes said:

tired of the boogeyman scenarios, especially when we are talking about a consumer product.

But, how will they then adopt a victim mentality?

 

They've got to follow the example of the biggest victim of all, you know.

[BIGUN 1,463]

13 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Dyson spheres

Whew. For a second there, I thought the gubment was gonna tax my existing vacuum and force me to get a new solar one. 

[Phil1111 1,156]

14 hours ago, BIGUN said:

You think gas is expensive; try feeding five horses in the winter. 

Yeah but come spring you have FREE material to grow huge potatoes, carrots, vegetables, etc.

[CygnusX-1 43]

18 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi airdvr,

In your entire lifetime, what have you been forced to own?

Jerry Baumchen

Jerry

I'm just glad that time is finally over now; where 20 years ago I was forced to buy a gas car.

[gowlerk 2,266]

24 minutes ago, CygnusX-1 said:

Jerry

I'm just glad that time is finally over now; where 20 years ago I was forced to buy a gas car.

Every damned car I buy some government forces me to buy seatbelts and airbags and emission controls and headlights and a long never ending list of stuff that I would  never spend my money on if they didn’t make me.

[JerryBaumchen 1,454]

Hi folks,

Looks like progress:  More electric vehicle battery-recycling plants are coming to the U.S. : NPR

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 3,096]

23 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Looks like progress:  More electric vehicle battery-recycling plants are coming to the U.S. : NPR

Huh.  Anti-EV folks have been patiently explaining that battery recycling is completely impossible for years now.  How can this be????

[billvon 3,096]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Every damned car I buy some government forces me to buy seatbelts and airbags and emission controls and headlights and a long never ending list of stuff that I would  never spend my money on if they didn’t make me.

Yep.  When I bought my first car in 1987 I really wanted an EV.  But I did not have that choice.

Cool to see we have more choices today.

[normiss 883]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Huh.  Anti-EV folks have been patiently explaining that battery recycling is completely impossible for years now.  How can this be????

You could have been more patient 1987 Electric Vette

[billvon 3,096]

1 hour ago, normiss said:

You could have been more patient 1987 Electric Vette

A friend of mine converted a 1967 Corvette to run on electric back in 1987.  People seemed to love it at car shows.

[headoverheels 334]

12 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Whew. For a second there, I thought the gubment was gonna tax my existing vacuum and force me to get a new solar one. 

That would suck.

[JoeWeber 2,901]

4 hours ago, billvon said:

A friend of mine converted a 1967 Corvette to run on electric back in 1987.  People seemed to love it at car shows.

He bastardized a '67 Vette? Did he come from a home where the parents liked different football teams? I don't know but whatever he was eventually jailed for I hope he got early release and a car wash job.

[brenthutch 444]

You are really rolling the dice when road-tripping with an EV considering 20% of charging stations don’t work.

“Through the end of Q1 2023, 20.8 percent of EV drivers using public charging stations experienced charging failures or equipment malfunctions that left them unable to charge their vehicles.” The numbers were worse in a study of EV chargers in the San Francisco Bay Area last year that found almost one-quarter of them didn’t work due to “unresponsive or unavailable screens, payment system failures, charge initiation failures, network failures, or broken connectors.”

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45309960/ev-charging-stations-problems/

[ryoder 1,590]

6 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

He bastardized a '67 Vette?

You aren't the only one who reacted with horror about that!

[CygnusX-1 43]

4 hours ago, brenthutch said:

You are really rolling the dice when road-tripping with an EV considering 20% of non-Tesla charging stations don’t work.

 

FIFY

If you are going to post this anti-EV FUD, please have the decency to correct the inaccuracies or the narrative that the author is trying to push. Although, to be perfectly honest (without reading the whole or any of the article) if the author included Tesla's charging network reliability in the sample that might have greatly reduced the inoperable stations to probably 20% from the abysmal performance of networks like EA.

[billvon 3,096]

4 hours ago, ryoder said:

You aren't the only one who reacted with horror about that!

He thought people at cars shows would think the same.  But with very few exceptions, they all loved it.  He even got a few requests to convert THEIR Corvettes.