EV trip in the real world

[billvon 3,111]

A few weeks back we drove to Las Vegas, a trip of about 330 miles.  We took Amy's car, a Tesla Model S with about 400 miles of range.  This would be great!  We could get there - fast - without charging, and I could plug in once we get to the hotel.  Even the slowest charge rate available (a 120V outlet) would get us 100% charged in the three days we would be there.

So we set out, started driving, and got to Barstow before someone had to pee (me.)  We stopped at a tiny supercharger, and I peed while Harry got a bottle of water.  That meant, of course, that then Harry had to pee, so we stopped again, this time in Primm.

We got to the hotel with about 150 miles of range from our two stops.  It was 108 there, and we unloaded quickly and got inside.  I didn't feel like braving the heat any more than possible so I never plugged the car in at the hotel (lazy I know.)

We left on Saturday just before lunch and drove to Baker.  We stopped there to get a sandwich.  The car was charging at almost 20 miles a minute, so after a 10 minute stop we had the range to get home.  

Side note - in Baker we stopped at a supercharger that was under a solar array, which was nice because it provided shade - and it was 114 degrees  out.  We knew this because Baker has the largest so-and-so thermometer in the world right next to the road.  When the charging started the charger was delivering 250kw, and the car was trying to cool both the battery and the cabin.  The A/C system sounded like a jet engine screaming under the hood, but it kept the car cool.

For some reason we never got stranded, the car never caught on fire, we never had to wait more than 10 minutes to finish charging, and the kids had fun.  Somehow this runs counter to everything FOX News has told me about road trips in an EV.

[BIGUN 1,483]

7 hours ago, billvon said:

in Baker we stopped at a supercharger that was under a solar array,

At some point, someone is going to figure out a way to place a solar array on top of an EV. That combined with some type of generator from the wheels and have some form of power bank in the trunk that gives one very extended mileage. Kind of an Anker 767 for EVs thing. 

[Phil1111 1,173]

3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

At some point, someone is going to figure out a way to place a solar array on top of an EV. That combined with some type of generator from the wheels and have some form of power bank in the trunk that gives one very extended mileage. Kind of an Anker 767 for EVs thing. 

Above is a Lightyear EV. The hood roof and rear hatch are all solar cells, about 54 sq. ft. with a .19 drag coefficient. The company went broke and was refloated with the objective a a $40k euro model to replace the $240k original model above. The solar cells recharge 43.5 miles a day in optimum conditions and 388 miles fully charged. So if your commute is less than that you don't have to plug it in at all. Motor trend article.  Company Website.

The company recently cancelled plans for the model 2 $40k replacement. So perhaps in the future some other company may take up the project again.

Edited July 6, 2024 by Phil1111

[BIGUN 1,483]

47 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Above is a Lightyear EV. The hood roof and rear hatch are all solar cells, about 54 sq. ft. with a .19 drag coefficient. The company went broke and was refloated with the objective a a $40k euro model to replace the $240k original model above. The solar cells recharge 43.5 miles a day in optimum conditions and 388 miles fully charged.

Damn I'm good. Just a little late and have overpriced ideas. :)

[winsor 236]

3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

At some point, someone is going to figure out a way to place a solar array on top of an EV. That combined with some type of generator from the wheels and have some form of power bank in the trunk that gives one very extended mileage. Kind of an Anker 767 for EVs thing. 

It's been done.  IIRC, 550 watts/square meter from unobstructed sunlight is reasonable, so even with 100% efficiency there is precious little with which to work.

One of the problems we face is more from our expectations than from the physics involved.  The U.S. in it's heyday was a network of railhead communities, and a domicile within range of rail transport was critical.

Now we have urban sprawl that is ill served by rail transport, and we are convinced that it is our birthright to have a POV in the driveway.

A (well run) rail network based on modern Diesel-electric traction is more efficient than everyone having POVs of any description.

So long as we cling tenaciously to an unworkable model, it matters little how we finesse it.  I suspect that we are past the tipping point.

Don Henley's line that we've been "poisoned by these fairy tails" is spot on.

It was fun while it lasted.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[wmw999 2,587]

I just took the train down to Washington DC and back a couple of weeks ago; easy peasy. We do that to NYC too

Wendy P. 

[winsor 236]

When we were busy bringing Truth, Justice and the American Way™ to Iraq and Afghanistan, a few of us ran the numbers and concluded that a well organized operation could put in place a hub and spoke high-speed rail system connecting all major metropolitan areas in the US of A for less

Upon reflection, when I consider the peace, prosperity and admiration that was achieved by our military operations, I have to conclude that it was a better investment in the future to free the oppressed people in those countries.

Edited July 6, 2024 by winsor

[billvon 3,111]

6 hours ago, BIGUN said:

At some point, someone is going to figure out a way to place a solar array on top of an EV.

That's no problem.  The new Prius Prime has one of those.  Problem is that you don't add much even if you take up much of the car; the 185 watt panel on the Prius adds about 6 miles of range a day.  The Lightyear looks good but I'll believe those range numbers when I see them.  Cars just don't have that much surface area.  BTW Aptera tried to do something similar, but they are dead in the water now.

I also saw a GoFundMe for a "deployable" solar power system that would extend from a roof rack thing and cover the windshield and the back of the car.  That, of course, only works when you are parked, and you may lose more range from the big roof rack thing than you get back from the solar charger.

Quote

combined with some type of generator from the wheels 

That, unfortunately, doesn't work.  The Laws of Thermodynamics say that you can't get more energy out of the wheel than you put into it, so at best you break even.

[gowlerk 2,274]

6 minutes ago, winsor said:

When we were busy bringing Truth, Justice and the American Way™ to Iraq and Afghanistan, a few of us ran the numbers and concluded that a well organized operation could put in place a hub and spoke high-speed rail system connecting all major metropolitan areas in the US of A for less

Upon reflection, when I consider the peace, prosperity and admiration that was achieved by our military operations, I have to conclude that it was a better investment in the future to free the oppressed people in those countries.

The neo-cons sure did a number on your nation. The hubris is hard to believe.

[JerryBaumchen 1,466]

7 hours ago, BIGUN said:

At some point, someone is going to figure out a way to place a solar array on top of an EV. That combined with some type of generator from the wheels and have some form of power bank in the trunk that gives one very extended mileage. Kind of an Anker 767 for EVs thing. 

Hi Keith,

Here is Jeep's version; not exactly what you asked about, but close.

Jerry Baumchen

[BIGUN 1,483]

3 hours ago, billvon said:

The Laws of Thermodynamics say that you can't get more energy out of the wheel than you put into it, so at best you break even.

I got faith that you'll figure out something, Bill. :)

[ryoder 1,590]

5 hours ago, billvon said:

 BTW Aptera tried to do something similar, but they are dead in the water now.

I've lost track of how many times Aptera has been declared dead, and then along comes another announcement that it is still in the works. Seems like it just doesn't want to get on the cart.

[JoeWeber 2,937]

Just now, BIGUN said:

I got faith that you'll figure out something, Bill. :)

Possibly cheaper, if not easier, would be to train some people to not go to Vegas when it's 108 and Baker at 114.

[brenthutch 444]

23 hours ago, billvon said:

A few weeks back we drove to Las Vegas, a trip of about 330 miles.  We took Amy's car, a Tesla Model S with about 400 miles of range.  This would be great!  We could get there - fast - without charging, and I could plug in once we get to the hotel.  Even the slowest charge rate available (a 120V outlet) would get us 100% charged in the three days we would be there.

So we set out, started driving, and got to Barstow before someone had to pee (me.)  We stopped at a tiny supercharger, and I peed while Harry got a bottle of water.  That meant, of course, that then Harry had to pee, so we stopped again, this time in Primm.

We got to the hotel with about 150 miles of range from our two stops.  It was 108 there, and we unloaded quickly and got inside.  I didn't feel like braving the heat any more than possible so I never plugged the car in at the hotel (lazy I know.)

We left on Saturday just before lunch and drove to Baker.  We stopped there to get a sandwich.  The car was charging at almost 20 miles a minute, so after a 10 minute stop we had the range to get home.  

Side note - in Baker we stopped at a supercharger that was under a solar array, which was nice because it provided shade - and it was 114 degrees  out.  We knew this because Baker has the largest so-and-so thermometer in the world right next to the road.  When the charging started the charger was delivering 250kw, and the car was trying to cool both the battery and the cabin.  The A/C system sounded like a jet engine screaming under the hood, but it kept the car cool.

For some reason we never got stranded, the car never caught on fire, we never had to wait more than 10 minutes to finish charging, and the kids had fun.  Somehow this runs counter to everything FOX News has told me about road trips in an EV.

I can do the same thing in my Honda with a four minute gas stop. And the thirty thousand dollar difference in price buys a lot of gas.

[Phil1111 1,173]

Yachts are starting to replace sails.  20 delivered, 30 in production as at Oct. 2023.

[lippy 918]

23 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I can do the same thing in my Honda with a four minute gas stop. And the thirty thousand dollar difference in price buys a lot of gas.

Don’t you have a Mercedes SUV? Anybody is free to buy the vehicle if they’re choosing, but you’re throwing rocks from your glass house in lecturing on expensive vehicles. Not to mention that the same trip could’ve happened in a Model 3 that’s got a pretty similar price tag to the Honda. 

[Phil1111 1,173]

Even NASCAR is going EV. Just introduced today is the 1300 hp prototype:

[brenthutch 444]

8 hours ago, lippy said:

Don’t you have a Mercedes SUV? Anybody is free to buy the vehicle if they’re choosing, but you’re throwing rocks from your glass house in lecturing on expensive vehicles. Not to mention that the same trip could’ve happened in a Model 3 that’s got a pretty similar price tag to the Honda. 

The Honda is mine the Mercedes is my wife’s. I just don’t see the point of bragging about spending hours/days recharging an EV. A vehicle is supposed to make one’s life easier not dictate it. How can Bill claim “we could get there-fast” when he spends an hour at a charging station?

 

Edited July 7, 2024 by brenthutch

[lippy 918]

34 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

The Honda is mine the Mercedes is my wife’s. I just don’t see the point of bragging about spending hours/days recharging an EV. A vehicle is supposed to make one’s life easier not dictate it. How can Bill claim “we could get there-fast” when he spends an hour at a charging station?

 

Where did he say anything about an hour at a charging station?  We all know you can't be bothered to read the articles you post here, so I guess it's no surprise that you can't read the posts of others.

 

[brenthutch 444]

16 minutes ago, lippy said:

Where did he say anything about an hour at a charging station?  We all know you can't be bothered to read the articles you post here, so I guess it's no surprise that you can't read the posts of others.

 

“Even the slowest charge rate available (a 120V outlet) would get us 100% charged in the three days we would be there.”

Perhaps it is you who needs to read more carefully.

More on the inconvenience and limitations from a pro EV source 

https://optiwatt.com/blog/dos-and-donts-for-charging-in-the-california-summer#:~:text=The preconditioning system allows you,windows to reduce the temperature.

Edited July 7, 2024 by brenthutch

[wmw999 2,587]

But he didn’t use it. That was his worst-case scenario planning. 

Wendy P. 

[brenthutch 444]

1 minute ago, wmw999 said:

But he didn’t use it. That was his worst-case scenario planning. 

Wendy P. 

Can you imagine being on a longer trip without superchargers? If it took me three days to fill up my Honda, I would trade it in for a horse.

On a side note during our drive to William and Mary I saw two Teslas on the side of the road and wondered if that had to do with the 103 degree (indicated) heat. 

[wmw999 2,587]

So you concede that you either misread or were misquoting Bill? And there are superchargers, so Bill doesn’t have to imagine being on a trip without them. 

Wendy P. 

[kallend 2,146]

17 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I got faith that you'll figure out something, Bill. :)

Take your pick:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

[brenthutch 444]

12 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

So you concede that you either misread or were misquoting Bill? And there are superchargers, so Bill doesn’t have to imagine being on a trip without them. 

Wendy P. 

I’m pretty sure Bill laid out the range of his charging options from ten minutes to three days. As long as Bill limits his travels based on supercharger availability he will be fine. Unless, of course, that particular station is down. In which case he is screwed.