What upgrades exists to our cessna 182?

[pilotdave 0]

If you plan to carry less fuel, be very careful to read the flight manual and make sure you are still going to have enough USEABLE fuel in the tanks. I know of one jump plane accident in an early model 182 caused by this. Useable fuel in level flight is (in older 182s) higher than it is in steep banks. The plane had enough fuel to meet VFR minimum fuel requirements IN LEVEL FLIGHT.

Apparently it went something like this...
During the descent, the engine sputtered. Pilot leveled off to check everything. Engine came back to normal. Pilot continued descent. Made too wide a pattern, and the engine quit while turning final. Plane crashed short of the runway. (Don't think the pilot was injured)

Fuel tanks were checked after the accident, and plenty of fuel was found in them. The flight manual solved the mystery.

I don't know all the details... just had a conversation with one of the investigators about it.

Just make sure that by flying with less fuel you aren't getting into a situation like that.

Dave

[riggerrob 643]

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The diesel is a good engine but due to it's extra weight you may have to lose 1 jumper off your standard load.

From the SMA faq page:

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Is your engine heavier?

Dry weight of the engine is 192 Kg/423 lbs and fully equipped is 221 Kg/487 lbs. So, our engine installed is heavier by approximately 40 pounds (as seen on the C-182 installation compared to an O-470). However this increased weight is compensated by the lower fuel requirement for a similar mission and the increased performance provided by the turbocharger.

Note : The fully equipped weight reflects the "installed" weight of a Cessna 182Q and other installations may vary in exact weight.

Looks like the 40 punds is not such a big problem as it easily can be compensated by carrying less fuel (lower consumption so same flight-time)

Wrote a mail to the dutch club, hope they can enlighten this further (on their web-page it says it takes 4 jumpers to 12.000ft)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The lower fuel consumption only helps on long flights.
For jump plane operations, you are still limited by the empty weight, plus minimum fuel load, then the weight of the jumpers.
Changing the engine does not change the minimum fuel load. You still need to carry enough fuel for 2 or 3 loads, plus a 30-45 minute reserve.
Flying without a 30 minute fuel reserve is just plain dangerous.
Heck!
ATC frequently tell us to orbit for 20 minutes!


helge

[Liemberg 0]

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ATC frequently tell us to orbit for 20 minutes!

Ummmm, yer orbitting near the airfield - what could possibly go wrong?...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[JumpShipGypsy 0]

www.soloy.com

the other guy left out an O. I've flown a Soloy 207 quite a bit. It was a great jump plane. Easy to fly and good performance. But a little expensive.

In fact the plane on Soloys web site is the one i flew. It belonged to West Plains Skydiving in Spokane WA untill recently.

Ive also flown several 182's. Wing extensions are a great addition.

[gerrcoin 0]

Thanks for the info. Definately something to consider. We fuel for 3 cycles (+30 min reserve) and also have limits on bank angles for the pilots.

Surely in co-ordinated turns this wouldn't be a problem as the a/c would be experiencing loading at 90 deg to the plane of the wings. So no agressive slips to final would be a good point. Still be wary of the descent angle, although due to the Vne we've set to avoid shock-cooling this should be ok.

The question is whether the turbo on that diesel requires as much care from the pilots as on, say, a turbo 206. I've no personal experience with turbo (not turbine, just in case anyone was wondering) operations, but I've been informed that it is not recommended for (relatively) low-time jump pilots, or in a situation where different pilots are swapping in and out of turbo and non-turbo a/c every other lift.

The reduced fuel thing mearly puts the diesel engined 182 back on the table. The main reason for looking at the Diesel is that in Europe Jet-A (or Avtur) costs about 1/3 the price of Avgas, coupled with the rumour that the TetraEthylLead additive in Avgas will stop production in less than 10 years. The initial cost of the engine is a bit much though. I think that we will probably opt for the 206 engine mod discussed in another thread.

[gerrcoin 0]

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Flying without a 30 minute fuel reserve is just plain dangerous.

Agreed, and entirely out of the question.

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Heck!
ATC frequently tell us to orbit for 20 minutes!

Not a problem in our case. We operate under an ATC shelf which extends from 4000' to 18,000' (I think) and below that we are on airfield unicom. The airfield is owned and operated as a dropzone foremost and our aircraft have priority over everything except canopies and emergencies. Landing, apart from an extra orbit or two, is not a problem.

[grue 1]

NOS™. You need NOS™. One of those, the big bottles. No, better make it two.....and you need 'em by tonight.


Sorry sorry sorry, someone had to make a Fast and Furious quote

cavete terrae.

[JumpShipGypsy 0]

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NOS™. You need NOS™. One of those, the big bottles. No, better make it two.....and you need 'em by tonight.


Sorry sorry sorry, someone had to make a Fast and Furious quote

Not sure but i think Bruce Bohanan's plane "Flyin' Tiger" runs Nitrous Oxide. He has set all kinds of time to climb records.

Wish we could run Nitrous Oxide in a piston jump plane.

Ben.

[pilotdave 0]

When you're flying a piston engine airplane to 50,000 feet, you need some way of burning fuel.

Don't think I'd wanna ride a 182 to 50,000 though!

Not to mention he probably gets an overhaul after every few flights. That'd suck.

Dave

[helge 0]

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www.soloy.com

the other guy left out an O. I've flown a Soloy 207 quite a bit. It was a great jump plane. Easy to fly and good performance. But a little expensive.

In fact the plane on Soloys web site is the one i flew. It belonged to West Plains Skydiving in Spokane WA untill recently.

Ive also flown several 182's. Wing extensions are a great addition.

Interesting... Know the price for one of those? And are they FAA approved to go in a 182?

Also very interested in info regarding the Walter M601 E-11 engine.. Extremely cheap, very good performance and a long TBO...

It would take a long nose to install it in a skylane, but i've heard rumors that it has been done.. Anyone?

Helge

[riggerrob 643]

Also very interested in info regarding the Walter M601 E-11 engine.. Extremely cheap, very good performance and a long TBO...

It would take a long nose to install it in a Skylane, but i've heard rumors that it has been done.. Anyone?

Helge

[JumpShipGypsy 0]

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www.soloy.com

the other guy left out an O. I've flown a Soloy 207 quite a bit. It was a great jump plane. Easy to fly and good performance. But a little expensive.

In fact the plane on Soloys web site is the one i flew. It belonged to West Plains Skydiving in Spokane WA untill recently.

Ive also flown several 182's. Wing extensions are a great addition.

Interesting... Know the price for one of those? And are they FAA approved to go in a 182?

Also very interested in info regarding the Walter M601 E-11 engine.. Extremely cheap, very good performance and a long TBO...

It would take a long nose to install it in a skylane, but i've heard rumors that it has been done.. Anyone?

Helge

The Soloy conversion is more than just an engine swap. it involves major airframe modifcation. So, no you could not put one on a 182. A Contintal IO-520 or 550 engine upgrade would be a much better choice.

most of my jumps are out of a Cessna 185. 20 min to altitude. Dont be an airplane snob. Skydiver used to be happy to jump out of a 172 at 8000 ft.

Ben.

[helge 0]

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... A Contintal IO-520 or 550 engine upgrade would be a much better choice.

I think the IO-520 or 550 is pretty much out of the question because of the high costs, and expensive fuel..
The SMA engine looks to be our best card now.. We still have about 4 years left on our current engine, so hopefully there will be a STC on the 300hp SMA engine before that..

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most of my jumps are out of a Cessna 185. 20 min to altitude. Dont be an airplane snob. Skydiver used to be happy to jump out of a 172 at 8000 ft.

Ben.

True, but people also used to be happy with flying rounds and do nothing but belly.. When we reach TBO on our current engine, i think it is important to upgrade to keep activity up..

Helge

[riggerrob 643]

Cessna recently announced that they will offer the 230 horsepower SMA diesel engine - as a factory option - in their 182 JT-A.
Cessna will market the 182 JT-A mainly to operators in countries where 100LL avgas is difficult to obtain.

[jp-pinto 0]

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