Third Class Medical in the News Again,...

[stratostar 5]

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Do you have a clue as to how what your saying is perceived by the public? And in the context of a skydiving medical discussion???

Nope nor do I give a damn! I have a class 3 in my pocket and it's valid for 1.5 more yrs... you got one? Make a living using it?

Didn't think so....

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Ron 10]

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Don't mean to be a ball buster but a Senior medical examiner is an FAA designation, for Americans. I am not clouding anything by introducing viewpoints from other countries.

And again it is just an interesting read...

Using your source:

"According to the FAA “Over the past 3 years, the
number of denials of third-class airman medical certificates has ranged from approximately 2000 to 2500 per year based on approximately 135,000 to 140,000 applications for third-class airman medical certification per year. Most of these denials resulted because of a failure of the applicants to provide sufficient information for the FAA to make a favorable decision”.

OK, so out of 140K class 3 medicals, 2500 were rejected. So less than 2%. And out of that 2%, most were "because of a failure of the applicants to provide sufficient information for the
FAA to make a favorable decision".

So out of that less than 2%, how many were actually a risk to the general public?

Most of the rejections were paperwork issues. I know guys that can run a marathon but can't get a medical because of an issue that they had years ago because the mountain of paperwork makes it next to impossible to get all the information available. Oh, and you don't know what paperwork you are going to need and once you apply, you only have SEVEN days to submit whatever they ask for or you are automatically rejected.

FURTHER, the USPA itself has admitted that they only care about the DUI aspect. So the medical itself is not needed. I have another buddy who never drinks at all, but had a stint put in and now can't get a medical because of the paperwork issue... The FAA wants the serial number of the stint and the Drs notes from the procedure. Well, that Dr has been dead 10 years. But here is a guy who HAD an issue and is now under the care of a cardiologist (so he is watched much more closely than you are I) and has a clean bill of health and he can't do tandems because of a paperwork issue.

Me, I made the mistake of being honest and told them I had a kidney stone. So they make me jump through a bunch of hoops every year to get a medical. And not a single Dr INCLUDING the one who sent me for the procedure and the one DOING the procedure thought it was worth doing.

And again, remember the USPA only cares that I don't have a DUI. They have admitted that is what they care about.

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Now what can we do about it? Give me something to do, I want to write a letter, or call someone at the USPA,...

Call and write the USPA. Tell them you think it is a stupid requirement. Maybe go to the next BOD meeting and express your opinion.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[ChrisD 0]

Thanks Ron, I appreciate your well thought out response, and as some one else has reminded me, not being "snarky" when I say that. I agree with ya about the actual risk. But when has our government ever acted upon the actual risk as compared with perception. It seems all it would take is one incident to splash egg on some politicians face. So I guess in many respects once a law / regulation is in place it is very difficult to remove because of the perceived potential for the I told ya so or the I'm not going to be the one on the hot seat by reducing regulations. I don't think the USPA is immune from that way of thinking? Anyways WE are the USPA, and I can start writing,...

What did Clint Vincent have to say about this at the last BOD?

Does anyone know?

Can our own Dropzone.com moderator shed some light on this, if such a thing is appropriate? I don't think it's appropriate for Mr. Noonan to share his personal views on the subject (I think this puts any BOD in a really shitty position, and there is that confidentiality thing?) but can someone remind me which meeting minutes have more discussion on this topic than the last meeting ? And perhaps there is some kind of pro / con paper that Mr. Noonan can share? Or point to?? I don't know, I'm asking? Or anyone?

I mean the political climate over there seems to still be harping on the: Poor image, poor first jump retention, and FAA inertia, whatever that means. And of course I still don't fully understand this: [I] "skydiving’s safety culture has a long way to go..." [/I]

In some past threads and posts I was being a little snarkey about how Tandem places are changing things, and something about how some want it to be a business so get used to the 2nd class medical being the future. (Or whatever.) I believe the USPA comment is this: "Changing DZ business model—an increasing number of DZs only accommodate tandem jumps; this may serve to reduce the overall retention rate among all first-jump customers..." [/I]

I get upset over this one, not sure why, but we all have seen what happens when I get rolling

Perhaps there is some sort of connection, that I don't fully understand between the medical and this dz thing. And because I Don't fully understand it I'm reacting first and thinking later. Anyways I don't begrudge anyone trying to make a living at skydiving. But this last from the USPA has me concerned, and perhaps this point belongs in another post? Or perhaps the USPA, "us" can enforce the two minute video on the joys of jumping at a tandem only place?

C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[peek 21]

ChrisD

Anyways WE are the USPA, and I can start writing,...

See post #125 in this thread.

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What did Clint Vincent have to say about this at the last BOD?

He didn't say anything that I recall. Why would he? Are you getting him confused with someone else? Do you know anything about USPA? (You could start with your Regional Director. See post #125 in this thread.)

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... so get used to the 2nd class medical being the future.

Did you read what I posted in the other thread about the 3rd class medical? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4579392#4579392


Chris, are you going to do any beneficial work to help skydiving or our organization, or are you just going to go on and on posting nonsense in dropzone.com forums?

(You could start with your Regional Director. See post #125 in this thread.)

[ChrisD 0]

Yes, .
I was curious about the section in the last meeting minutes about how and why the issue was tabled: "Discussed the omission of a flight medical for tandem renewals,"

And no I don't always understand some of this, probably getting confused.

This:
"The result is a wide lack of uniformity and continuity with respect to USPA disciplinary actions, which invites the perception among our members that USPA is not serious about safety violations and that favoritism is involved..."

It's not nonsense, but I do need help with some of these many references, I can't afford to go to these meetings, I would like to. You say go find my Regional Director but I would like all material first and I try to be prepared. Sorry to sound like a prick again, but there's not many places to turn to other than asking here.

If you take the time to explain fully, that in fact does really help. And yes I will in fact have a full agenda next time I see the rep.. that is the plan...

I carefully read everything here, or at least I try to, but it still seems like some of the story is missing? Point me in a direction for information and yes of course I have spoken somewhat in the past, but at public events and they are busy with others usually. Are you saying they will communicate by email, cause some have said you won't and don't get much if I go that route?
C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[peek 21]

ChrisD

... Are you saying they [USPA Directors] will communicate by email, cause some have said you won't and don't get much if I go that route?

I suggest giving it a try. There are no prerequisites. You need not "be prepared". If email does not work there is always the telephone, which is an even better method of communication.

Reporting back to us would be helpful.

As I mentioned before, you will want to take into consideration the holiday schedules of people you contact.

[ChrisD 0]

I had never been to your web site before, I am in awe! Is there one for other regions as well?

I like the bit about being politically correct and then the bit about the information discussion leading up to the decisions, missing, when you referenced parachutist magazine and USPA meetings. Does anyone tape or record the open sessions?

Yes I think waiting some would be a good idea, I will do that....don't warn them that I am coming.

C

I didn't know you were on the BOD either. I owe Tom some serious apologizing. Shit I feel like a jerk....

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[stratostar 5]

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I was curious about the section in the last meeting minutes about how and why the issue was tabled: "Discussed the omission of a flight medical for tandem renewals,"

Once again.... some of us have been trying to get additional medical or physical's allowed as equivalent to the class 3.... for one example a USDOT approved medical card.

This topic has been ongoing for some time, a few meetings now. The last time it was put up, it was shot down, due to the DUI thing, I understand their point and reasons, just don't agree with reasoning to get there, we all talked about it, shared ideas and disagreed at times, but the issues was talked about and handled in a very fair manner by those who helped me personally raise the question. I know other were also at the same time, I can't speak for them, but all the USPA BOD member I spoke to were fair and open to communication. In fact I believe one of them may still be working on this, but IDK.

Again those of us seeking equivalent's provided counter points to the DUI issue and how it might comply as an equivalent. IF the the USPA was talking about it and then tabled it, that is easy, they were not done doing research on the topic and put it off till the research was complete.

As it stands now, there will be no equivalent allowed and the reason I was given, as of last week again, was the DUI.

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I don't always understand some of this, probably getting confused.

That has been clear for sometime.

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"The result is a wide lack of uniformity and continuity with respect to USPA disciplinary actions, which invites the perception among our members that USPA is not serious about safety violations and that favoritism is involved..."

That is because it is 100% true and in fact much is done in the good old boy network and cover up at the highest levels in many cases in the past, that would in fact lead a great deal of those who know the truth to believe, that in fact USPA has a history of looking the other way and playing favoritism to a some.... in fact they tried to pull that shit with the FAA once and got called on it!

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It's not nonsense, but I do need help with some of these many references

Well here is a hint..... it's called the search feature on this site, USPA has one too and then there is Google, learn to use it and spend sometime there doing some research using that keyboard, there, instead of thread highjacking here with useless ramblings that are off topic, had you done so you might have been up to speed on the topic, goes back about 3 years now we been working on this.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[normiss 892]

Funks.





???

[ShotterMG 0]

You are trying to say your experience doesn't matter and you never meant to overstate your experience. But many times you have directly implied that you are a rated instructor and have given out advice as such. If you really want to own up to your bullshit and be honest maybe it's time to explain or apologize for statements like this,


" You do the job at hand and your paying me to teach you and make improvements based upon what I see. And the bottom line is I really don't have or nor can I do much if I see your eyeballs or not! "

Exactly who has paid you to teach them to skydive?

[stratostar 5]

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2014/January/09/faa-apologizes-for-delay-on-medical-petition.aspx?WT.mc_sect=adv&WT.mc_id=140110epilot

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FAA apologizes for delay on medical petition
Says agency must carefully consider 'measured risks'

January 9, 2014

By Elizabeth A Tennyson

FAA apologizes for delay in responding to the AOPA-EAA third-class medical petition.Administrator Michael Huerta has formally responded to an AOPA request for an update on the status of the association’s third-class medical petition, but it remains unclear when the agency will make a final decision.

In the Dec. 26 letter, Huerta apologized for the delay in taking action on the petition, saying it was important to “ensure that such an unprecedented change will not result in any adverse impact that could lead to degradation in safety.”

The administrator also acknowledged the importance of the issue to pilots, referring to the more than 16,000 comments submitted on the petition.

The letter was sent following a meeting with AOPA President Mark Baker that included discussion of the third-class medical issue.

“We appreciate the administrator’s willingness to discuss this issue and the FAA’s concern for safety—that’s always our highest priority,” said Baker. “But we do feel pilots have waited long enough for an answer, so we will keep vigorously pursuing both our petition and legislative options to expand the use of the driver’s license medical standard.”

It has been almost two years since AOPA and EAA submitted a joint petition that would expand the use of the driver’s license medical standard. In the face of FAA inaction and strong interest from the pilot community, Congress has recently taken matters into its own hands.

On Dec. 11, 2013, Rep. Todd Rokita (R-Ind.), a member of the House General Aviation Caucus, and GA Caucus Co-Chair Sam Graves (R-Mo.) introduced the General Aviation Pilot Protection Act. By the time Congress returned to work following the Christmas holiday, the measure had attracted 16 co-sponsors.

The legislation would allow pilots to use the driver’s license medical standard for noncommercial VFR flights in aircraft weighing up to 6,000 pounds with no more than six seats. That includes virtually all single-engine airplanes with six or fewer seats as well as some twins. Pilots would be allowed to carry up to five passengers, fly at altitudes below 14,000 feet msl, and fly no faster than 250 knots. The act also would require the FAA to report on the safety consequences of the new rule after five years.

To help gather the momentum needed to pass the General Aviation Pilot Protection Act, AOPA will be calling on members to show their support. Look for details about how you can help in upcoming issues of ePilot and on AOPA.org.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo