Javelin with round reserve?

[kcaero 3]

Was the Javelin ever approved for  round reserves? Just curious

[riggerrob 643]

Yes,

Javelin was originally TSOed to accept round or square reserves.

Javelin was originally TSOed back durign the mid-1980s when round reserves (e.g. Strong 26' LoPo) were the norm. It was not until the late 1980s that round reserves fell out of fashion due to acid-mesh.

The only limitation is that round reserves need Type 3 or Type 4 diapers - with all suspension lines stowed on the diaper. Also keep in mind that medium or large volume round reserves will not fit into the smaller Javelins that are currently fashionable. Check the PIA Canopy Volume Chart before attempting to install any round reserve. Then compare that with the Javelin canopy volume compatibility chart.

I have packed dozens of round reserves (mostly Strong 26 foot LoPos, but also a few ^%$#@! Phantoms) into Javelins. Please only pack round reserves for skydivers who have already made a few dozen jumps on rounds. Younger jumpers do not know what they do not know about landing round canopies. Rounds require specific landing techniques that cannot be taught in one hour.

I have packed even more Javelins with square reserves: PD, Raven, Smart, Swift, Tempo, etc.

Finally, I have installed most types of automatic activation devices (Argus, Astra, FXC12000, Maars, Vigil, etc.) into Javelins.

[gowlerk 2,255]

2 hours ago, kcaero said:

Was the Javelin ever approved for  round reserves? Just curious

Packing instructions for rounds are in the older versions of the Javelin manual. Pre-skyhook or before about 2007

Edited August 3, 2023 by gowlerk

[pchapman 279]

2 hours ago, riggerrob said:

The only limitation is that round reserves need Type 3 or Type 4 diapers - with all suspension lines stowed on the diaper.

Haha! (As you might say)

There's more to the situation:   The old Jav's actually did have reserve tray loops for non-diapered round reserves.

Going from one of those old manuals that Gowler refers to:

[JerryBaumchen 1,450]

2 hours ago, riggerrob said:

Yes,

Javelin was originally TSOed to accept round or square reserves.

Javelin was originally TSOed back durign the mid-1980s when round reserves (e.g. Strong 26' LoPo) were the norm. It was not until the late 1980s that round reserves fell out of fashion due to acid-mesh.

The only limitation is that round reserves need Type 3 or Type 4 diapers - with all suspension lines stowed on the diaper. Also keep in mind that medium or large volume round reserves will not fit into the smaller Javelins that are currently fashionable. Check the PIA Canopy Volume Chart before attempting to install any round reserve. Then compare that with the Javelin canopy volume compatibility chart.

I have packed dozens of round reserves (mostly Strong 26 foot LoPos, but also a few ^%$#@! Phantoms) into Javelins. Please only pack round reserves for skydivers who have already made a few dozen jumps on rounds. Younger jumpers do not know what they do not know about landing round canopies. Rounds require specific landing techniques that cannot be taught in one hour.

I have packed even more Javelins with square reserves: PD, Raven, Smart, Swift, Tempo, etc.

Finally, I have installed most types of automatic activation devices (Argus, Astra, FXC12000, Maars, Vigil, etc.) into Javelins.

Hi Rob,

TSO C23(c) came out in 1984; not sure of the actual date of when it became effective.  The Jav was originally TSO'd under 23(c).

Jerry Baumchen

[riggerrob 643]

On 8/3/2023 at 11:19 AM, pchapman said:

Haha! (As you might say)

There's more to the situation:   The old Jav's actually did have reserve tray loops for non-diapered round reserves.

Going from one of those old manuals that Gowler refers to:

Wow!

The Javelin factory (aka. Sunpath) deleted those line stows so long ago that I forgot about them.

I have only packed a few rounds into Javelins and they all had full-stow diapers (Type 3 or Type 4).

On a practical level, Type 1 deployment (with all line stows in the pack tray) may have worked at the low airspeeds that were fashionable when we skydived from pterodactyls (humor) or AN-2 biplanes that fly backwards in a gentle breeze (more humor).

But ever since freefall speeds exceeded 100 knots, we really needed diapers that would hold the skirt closed until we reached line stretch. While Strong's Type 1 diaper (2 or 3 stows of the left line group on the diaper with the rest in the pack tray) provides a huge improvement in reliability, it is difficult to teach to young riggers. I only pack Type 2 diapers into Strong Para-Cushions. Strong Para-Cushions need those line stows to serve as kicker-plates/launching pads for their pilot-chutes. For almost every other container, I just stow all the lines on the diaper.

On a practical level, Type 1 deployment fell out of fashion during the 1970s. For all practical purposes, Type 1 deployment is obsolete. While working for Butler, I manufactured hundreds of Type 4 diapers and sewed them onto the full range of older round canopies.

[JerryBaumchen 1,450]

1 hour ago, riggerrob said:

Wow!

The Javelin factory (aka. Sunpath) deleted those line stows so long ago that I forgot about them.

I have only packed a few rounds into Javelins and they all had full-stow diapers (Type 3 or Type 4).

On a practical level, Type 1 deployment (with all line stows in the pack tray) may have worked at the low airspeeds that were fashionable when we skydived from pterodactyls (humor) or AN-2 biplanes that fly backwards in a gentle breeze (more humor).

But ever since freefall speeds exceeded 100 knots, we really needed diapers that would hold the skirt closed until we reached line stretch. While Strong's Type 1 diaper (2 or 3 stows of the left line group on the diaper with the rest in the pack tray) provides a huge improvement in reliability, it is difficult to teach to young riggers. I only pack Type 2 diapers into Strong Para-Cushions. Strong Para-Cushions need those line stows to serve as kicker-plates/launching pads for their pilot-chutes. For almost every other container, I just stow all the lines on the diaper.

On a practical level, Type 1 deployment fell out of fashion during the 1970s. For all practical purposes, Type 1 deployment is obsolete. While working for Butler, I manufactured hundreds of Type 4 diapers and sewed them onto the full range of older round canopies.

Hi Robf,

I have a FAA field approval to that very same thing.

Jerry Baumchen

[kcaero 3]

Can someone post a link  to the packing instructions for putting round reserve into a javelin?

[JerryBaumchen 1,450]

43 minutes ago, kcaero said:

Can someone post a link  to the packing instructions for putting round reserve into a javelin?

Hi kcaero,

If no can provide a link, I suggest that you contact them directly:  Sun Path Products Inc. | Javelin Skydiving Rigs & Container Systems

Jerry Baumchen

[pchapman 279]

This is the earliest all digital Javelin manual I have, with the file dated 2004. (not sure when it actually came out.) The next version I have is Rev02 in 2007, because then Skyhooks were added as an option.

Javelin Rev01-Issue01.pdf

Edited August 10, 2023 by pchapman

[riggerrob 643]

I lost my original Javelin manual many decades ago, but I remember stowing all the suspension lines on the diaper (Phantom or 26' LoPo) and packing it into a lower corner. Then I S-folded the rest of the canopy into the container in a U shape .. similar to the way that I packed rounds into Racer Pop-Tops. The key is keeping the canopy bulk as close as possible to zero near the closing loop.