Yossarian 0 #1 February 26, 2006 had a very alarming jump today, luckily ending well (Ish,got dragged into a hedge but thats another story) i was belly to earth when i felt my leg strap flapping on my leg, and it was attached by a clip (not just a step in) and i expected the worst and thought it had come undone, i went on my back and tried to tighten it (turns out didnt need to, it was just the excess that had escaped), my solution at pull time was to grab right shoulder strap with my left hand in case it had actually come away. luckily it was fine, but my question is what would you do if a leg strap came off? would it cause you to fall out of the harness, cause steering problems if you didnt? (in know a solution is to not use a rig with clips but it was hire kit) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #2 February 26, 2006 The best solution is prevention. With the B-12 snaps, make sure you give them a good test before you put your gear on. Snap it open and closed to ensure that they don't stick open. Prior to exiting the aircraft, ALWAYS check all three of your handles and all three of your straps. Main, Cut Away, Reserve. Chest strap routing, Right leg, Left leg. This should be a done prior to boarding and prior to exit on every single skydive. Because yes, if your leg strap comes on done, you can fall out of your harness on opening. Holding on with your hands is futile, even if it makes you feel better to do so. I know of one case of an undone chest strap resulting in the jumper falling out of her harness. I also know of undone leg straps resulting in the jumper falling out. In both cases, of course the jumpers tried to hold on. It is simply not possible. Gear maintenance. Gear checks. Don't get lazy. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #3 February 26, 2006 This is what happens to you if BOTH legstraps are undone...This report doesn't give the gory details regarding how my air show friend lost an arm by trying to 'Hold On' during opening... And in actuality you probably would not fall out of the harness with only ONE leg strap undone, I know a girl that survived just a scenario...the canopy was extremely hard to control though. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #4 February 26, 2006 Was this the case of what I've sometimes seen with pilots ... throwing the rig over the shoulders but not bothering with the leg straps?"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 43 #5 February 26, 2006 Some of us actually prefer the B-12 snaps and have ordered our rigs with them - on purpose! I'm not as young, flexible, or slim as I once was and I LOVE my B-12 snaps! Like any part of the equipment they need to be monitored and maintained. Fortunately this is pretty easy with B-12 snaps. "Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #6 February 26, 2006 QuoteWas this the case of what I've sometimes seen with pilots ... throwing the rig over the shoulders but not bothering with the leg straps? *** Possibly...but maybe not. I'd seen Joe 'gear up' for performances many times... (he was one of the best in the world) He always did up his rig, as most pilots do, INSIDE the aircraft. Many pilots feel that if they do that instead of getting in and out WEARING the parachute...it will incur less wear. The theories about this incident were more in line with him undoing the legstraps along with the 5 point aerobatic harness in the rush to exit a severely disabled aerobatic airplane. But... It was on a cross country flight FOLLOWING a performance, so he very well may have just left them 'undone' as you suggest...thinking he wouldn't possibly NEED to bail out. Either way, it's speculated that he 'knew' they were less than secure in free fall and probably attempted to cross his arms and hold on has he pulled. His left arm was found still in the leather jacket sleeve a short distance from the rest of him. On a side note~ Following this, I made my wife PRACTICE getting in and out of her aerobatic airplane WEARING the rig EVERYTIME...as 'we' seem to know better than the pilots...You do in an emergency what you practice on the ground. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,123 #7 February 27, 2006 A note on this - Having the tail come out of the stow on legstraps is pretty common; now you know what it feels like. Don't give yourself an unstable opening trying to deal with it. Do whatever checks you have to do in the plane to make sure your legstraps and chest straps are attached - that way when you feel something flapping against your leg in freefall it will be pretty clear what it is. (And better stows, like small rubber bands, can keep even that from happening.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packing_jarrett 0 #8 February 27, 2006 yeah dude awhile ago a tandem master's b-12 snap came undon and the camerman came in and docked and hooked it up in freefall. don't know what would have happened if it was left undone.Na' Cho' Cheese Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #9 February 27, 2006 I tell my pilot customers this problem. When they leave the rig in the plane all the time their exit procedure is undo the seat belt/5 point belt, UNDO THE PARCHUTE, and climb out. If this is what they get used to it may be what they do in the air. I tell them, they understand, and of course they still leave it in the plane. I didn't know that there was a probably case of this though. Maybe this will get through to them.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #10 February 27, 2006 QuoteI tell my pilot customers this problem. When they leave the rig in the plane all the time their exit procedure is undo the seat belt/5 point belt, UNDO THE PARCHUTE, and climb out. If this is what they get used to it may be what they do in the air. I tell them, they understand, and of course they still leave it in the plane. I didn't know that there was a probably case of this though. Maybe this will get through to them. *** Being a skydiver on the air show circuit I was asked how this could have happened too many times to count, back when the incident was 'fresh'. I pretty much made the same statement you did here, and did get some people to change their procedure...for a while anyway. When I had my wife 'practice' her 'exits' with her rig on, we started out very slowly...all movements in a methodical and exaggerated sequence of motions. She was amazed at how difficult it was to exit smoothly...while ON THE GROUND...imagining what it would be like in an actual emergency kept her motivated to continue my obsessive drills. ...And the only jump she ever actually made was a tandem with me...as a free fall drill to demonstrate ripcord pulling. As Nick DiG use to say...most pilots get a little freaky when they get some wind in their face. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OSOK 0 #11 February 27, 2006 QuoteI know of one case of an undone chest strap resulting in the jumper falling out of her harness. I also know of undone leg straps resulting in the jumper falling out. In both cases, of course the jumpers tried to hold on. It is simply not possible. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but how is it known that they tried to hold on? Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #12 February 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteI know of one case of an undone chest strap resulting in the jumper falling out of her harness. I also know of undone leg straps resulting in the jumper falling out. In both cases, of course the jumpers tried to hold on. It is simply not possible. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but how is it known that they tried to hold on? Seriously. Because one is on video, and the other was being assisted by another skydiver. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #13 February 27, 2006 My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #14 February 27, 2006 Quotethis is what they get used to it may be what they do in the air. For a number of years I taught a class at Scaled Composites on the use and care of various pilots’ rigs they were using. I would emphasize the importance of putting the rig on and tightening everything before getting in the plane for that very reason. QuoteWhen I had my wife 'practice' her 'exits' with her rig on, we started out very slowly...all movements in a methodical and exaggerated sequence of motions. Besides having a variety of rigs they also flew a wide range of aircraft from standard GA to experimental. I was able to convince the Opps. Manager that each A/C should have a written emergency egress procedure in each pilot practice it until they could do it smoothly. I would start each class by asking them to think of all the pilots they knew or had heard of that had died flying aerobatic or an experimental aircraft. I would wait a minute or two and tell them that all the pilots they had just checked off in their minds had died wearing a parachute. The greatest problem for them to overcome is to decide when they will stop being a pilot and get the hell out. And this they must decide before the event happens. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
