Stand Back & Stand By

[JerryBaumchen 1,444]

Hi folks,

Well, this one will not be doing so:  Proud Boy 'Tiny' Toese found guilty on assault, riot, unlawful weapon charges - OPB

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 3,076]

2 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Well, this one will not be doing so:  Proud Boy 'Tiny' Toese found guilty on assault, riot, unlawful weapon charges - OPB

And all this time the right wing has been saying that liberals destroyed Portland.  Now it turns out it was Proud Boys who were vandalizing cars and assaulting people there.

[BIGUN 1,423]

9 hours ago, billvon said:

Now it turns out it was Proud Boys who were vandalizing cars and assaulting people there.

Partially correct. Rose Hill Antifa and Patriot Prayer on the left. Proud Boys on the right. The violence began with the left. Proud Boys showed up to battle. What could go wrong. 

I don't think there's anyone on here that does not believe in Free Speech. The line of demarcation is violence. Both sides are at fault. Both sides are extreme. 

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Patriot Prayer is 'left'?

Seriously?

[BIGUN 1,423]

3 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Patriot Prayer is 'left'?

Seriously?

My mistake.

[winsor 236]

3 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Patriot Prayer is 'left'?

Seriously?

Yeah, I was kinda wondering about that.

[gowlerk 2,251]

56 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Both sides are at fault. Both sides are extreme.

I'm sure there are "very fine people on both sides".

[riggerrob 643]

Scary how much American politics have polarized over the last decade.

Why?

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

3 hours ago, riggerrob said:

Scary how much American politics have polarized over the last decade.

Why?

To a large degree because the very wealthy have decided they don't want to support the rest of the country.

Oversimplified, but accurate.
It's the old 'oligarchs & wealthy land owners are not willing to pay their fair share because the poor and minorities benefit from it' story.

So the far right has bought politicians with 'dark money' (thanks to Citizens United), Murdoch's media conglomerate has spread vitriolic, divisive propaganda, and the 'useful idiots' have embraced the ideology, ignoring the fact that it hurts them almost as much as it does 'those people'.

Heather Cox Richardson writes a daily (more or less) article, tying historical issues with todays headlines. 
One thing she has beaten well past death (the cliched 'horse smoothie') is how similar we are now to the period just before the Civil War. When the wealthy Southern slave holders did everything in their power to hold on to their wealth & power. Including co-opting poor whites into fighting and dying for them. Without ever realizing they'd been conned.
Not unlike the MAGA fools. 

[JerryBaumchen 1,444]

3 hours ago, riggerrob said:

Scary how much American politics have polarized over the last decade.

Why?

Hi Rob,

I am no political expert but I say when Newt Gingrich became Speaker with his 'My way or the HiWay' politics.

Jerry Baumchen

[gowlerk 2,251]

4 hours ago, riggerrob said:

Scary how much American politics have polarized over the last decade.

Why?

It's a two party system. How can it not be polarized? The communication revolution that has happened in our lifetimes just makes it more visible and easy to exploit.

[NewGuy2005 53]

8 hours ago, riggerrob said:

Scary how much American politics have polarized over the last decade.

Why?

I honestly believe it began with Rush Limbaugh.

[kallend 2,107]

3 hours ago, NewGuy2005 said:

I honestly believe it began with Rush Limbaugh.

I think it started with Richard Nixon.

[JoeWeber 2,836]

Just now, kallend said:

I think it started with Richard Nixon.

Only by way of coincidence. It all, as in every last crappy thing happening in the world, started with Commodore Computers.

[billvon 3,076]

4 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Only by way of coincidence. It all, as in every last crappy thing happening in the world, started with Commodore Computers.

And not the Apple 1?

[JoeWeber 2,836]

Just now, billvon said:

And not the Apple 1?

Were they first? OK, then they did it.

[riggerrob 643]

On 3/5/2023 at 11:19 AM, wolfriverjoe said:

To a large degree because the very wealthy have decided they don't want to support the rest of the country.

Oversimplified, but accurate.
It's the old 'oligarchs & wealthy land owners are not willing to pay their fair share because the poor and minorities benefit from it' story.

So the far right has bought politicians with 'dark money' (thanks to Citizens United), Murdoch's media conglomerate has spread vitriolic, divisive propaganda, and the 'useful idiots' have embraced the ideology, ignoring the fact that it hurts them almost as much as it does 'those people'.

Heather Cox Richardson writes a daily (more or less) article, tying historical issues with todays headlines. 
One thing she has beaten well past death (the cliched 'horse smoothie') is how similar we are now to the period just before the Civil War. When the wealthy Southern slave holders did everything in their power to hold on to their wealth & power. Including co-opting poor whites into fighting and dying for them. Without ever realizing they'd been conned.
Not unlike the MAGA fools. 

Really scary how many poor whites who fought for the Confederation ended up worse off economically after the American Civil War when they had to compete with recently-freed blacks who became share-croppers. Some blacks were better-off after the war, but some were worse-off. Poor blacks ended up competing directly with poor whites. Share-cropping was a miserable way to make a living. Both poor black and poor white laborers suffered under the new economy of the Southern States.

[NewGuy2005 53]

19 hours ago, kallend said:

I think it started with Richard Nixon.

Fair enough.  I was in grade school, so I don't remember a lot about him.

[airdvr 210]

On 3/5/2023 at 10:25 PM, kallend said:

I think it started with Richard Nixon.

I'll add that it started with the Vietnam war.  

[BIGUN 1,423]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

I'll add that it started with the Vietnam war.

IMO: The Vietnam War was the catalyst. It didn't really get defined until Reagan. We came out of the war to a resigning President, followed by a non-elected President, then Carter stepped into a crumbling economy that worsened under his presidency. 

Reagan was elected and solidified the positions of cutting taxes, increased military spending, cutting many social programs, corporate leaders loving a path that would rid them of unions (ATC Strike) and converting the "three-legged stool" into a single strategy "under God."  

[airdvr 210]

While I agree on most of it, the country was being torn in half in 1968 over our involvement.

"I can see by your coat my friend you're from the other side.  There's one thing I got to know.  Can you tell me please, who won?"  CSN

I sometimes fear we're heading for another Civil War.

[RonD1120 62]

On 3/5/2023 at 10:25 PM, kallend said:

I think it started with Richard Nixon.

I think you may be correct. However, I place a lot of blame on LBJ and the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. 

[billvon 3,076]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

"I can see by your coat my friend you're from the other side.  There's one thing I got to know.  Can you tell me please, who won?"  CSN

I sometimes fear we're heading for another Civil War.

A lot of people would like that.  SHTF and all that.

Trump today: "I am your warrior. I am your justice. And for those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution. I am your retribution.”  He then said that the 2024 election will be “the final battle.” 

I guess Jan 6th was just a warmup.

[JoeWeber 2,836]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

A lot of people would like that.  SHTF and all that.

Trump today: "I am your warrior. I am your justice. And for those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution. I am your retribution.”  He then said that the 2024 election will be “the final battle.” 

I guess Jan 6th was just a warmup.

They just convicted Jan 6 insurrectionist number 1000 and we still wait for the ringleader to be indicted on any charges at all. It’s getting easier and easier to believe the DOJ and Georgia will slow walk this to another Trump election. What a damn joke.

[tkhayes 348]

On 3/5/2023 at 2:19 PM, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Rob,

I am no political expert but I say when Newt Gingrich became Speaker with his 'My way or the HiWay' politics.

Jerry Baumchen

I also blame Newt for the first blatant telling of lies and starting the trend that it was somehow 'OK'.  When confronted by a reporter during an interview with something that he said - it was patently false and the reporter outed him on it.

Newt said something to the effect of "This is what our people believe."  I was disturbed as was the reporter at the time.  Honesty used to be a thing.  Now we just openly lie and then double down on it when confronted.