UK reverses on fracking

[brenthutch 444]

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-boris-johnson-climate-and-environment-government-politics-9aa9651b8ace23c992bfbf2599e9f80d
 

“Truss, who just took office Tuesday, also said she will approve more North Sea oil drilling and lift a ban on fracking to increase the U.K.’s domestic energy supply.”

When faced with the decision to address an imaginary crisis, (Global warming) or an actual one (energy poverty), the adult at 10 Downing St. chose the latter.

[billeisele 130]

The global warming thing is always interesting. This guy has an opinion. 
https://www.theepochtimes.com/exclusive-former-greenpeace-founder-patrick-moore-debunks-the-false-narratives-of-climate-change_4709568.html?utm_source=Goodevening&utm_campaign=gv-2022-09-07&utm_medium=email&est=v3dTCFn0uQaJGaDv%2BjujoEuIIrCPu0R%2FHupA7K9INbFPm6NToS3Xod3%2B3i8%3D

[billvon 3,107]

25 minutes ago, billeisele said:

The global warming thing is always interesting. This guy has an opinion. 
https://www.theepochtimes.com/exclusive-former-greenpeace-founder-patrick-moore-debunks-the-false-narratives-of-climate-change_4709568.html?utm_source=Goodevening&utm_campaign=gv-2022-09-07&utm_medium=email&est=v3dTCFn0uQaJGaDv%2BjujoEuIIrCPu0R%2FHupA7K9INbFPm6NToS3Xod3%2B3i8%3D

Since 1990 Moore has earned his money by working as a lobbyist for Euracoal, the Nuclear Energy Institute and Asia Pulp and Paper.  He is paid well for his opinions.

My favorite Moore story occurred during an interview for a French news show in 2015.  He claimed that the herbicide glyphosate was so safe you "could drink a whole quart of it" without any problems.  The interviewer was prepared for this and handed him a small glass of glyphosate and asked if he would drink it.  He refused, saying "I'm not an idiot" and "I'm not stupid" before walking out of the interview.

[brenthutch 444]

26 minutes ago, billvon said:

Since 1990 Moore has earned his money by working as a lobbyist for Euracoal, the Nuclear Energy Institute and Asia Pulp and Paper.  He is paid well for his opinions.

My favorite Moore story occurred during an interview for a French news show in 2015.  He claimed that the herbicide glyphosate was so safe you "could drink a whole quart of it" without any problems.  The interviewer was prepared for this and handed him a small glass of glyphosate and asked if he would drink it.  He refused, saying "I'm not an idiot" and "I'm not stupid" before walking out of the interview.

Let’s get back to discussing how GB opted to depend on fracking and drilling and not on shining and blowing.

[wmw999 2,584]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

Let’s get back to discussing how GB opted to depend on fracking and drilling and not on shining and blowing.

Ah yes, Liz Truss. I've heard it described as "I'll improve everything and no one will have to pay"

Wendy P.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-boris-johnson-climate-and-environment-government-politics-9aa9651b8ace23c992bfbf2599e9f80d
 

“Truss, who just took office Tuesday, also said she will approve more North Sea oil drilling and lift a ban on fracking to increase the U.K.’s domestic energy supply.”

When faced with the decision to address an imaginary crisis, (Global warming) or an actual one (energy poverty), the adult at 10 Downing St. chose the latter.

Great, what do you think this means? That fracking has no problems or long term issues associated with it?

Did you know that the fact people undergo chemotherapy treatment for cancer doesn't mean the chemicals used are very good for you?

[jakee 1,593]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

When faced with the decision to address an imaginary crisis, (Global warming)

Bans on fracking have nothing to do with global warming.

[brenthutch 444]

20 minutes ago, jakee said:

Bans on fracking have nothing to do with global warming.

Isn’t fracking a way to get natural gas?  Isn’t natural gas a fossil fuel? Aren’t fossil fuels blamed for the imaginary problem of global warming?  Wasn’t the overblown threat of tiny earth tremors just an excuse to ban fracking by the environmentalists wackos?  Seems that that imaginary threat has also abated in the face of a genuine energy crisis.

[billvon 3,107]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

Ah yes, Liz Truss. I've heard it described as "I'll improve everything and no one will have to pay"

Perhaps she will get Mexico to pay for it, just like Trump did.

[wmw999 2,584]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

Isn’t fracking a way to get natural gas?  Isn’t natural gas a fossil fuel? Aren’t fossil fuels blamed for the imaginary problem of global warming?  Wasn’t the overblown threat of tiny earth tremors just an excuse to ban fracking by the environmentalists wackos?  Seems that that imaginary threat has also abated in the face of a genuine energy crisis.

That's a lot of simplification in a lot of questions.

Ask the people in dry land why the disposal of thousands of gallons of precious water, contaminated with chemicals used in fracking, down holes where they're (hopefully) be stored, is problematic. This applies to oil recovery as well as fracking.

Ask the oil companies who aren't fracking nearly as much why they aren't -- it's not profitable after a (rather short per well) period. That's why there are so many abandoned wells. As long as they're not in Happy Valley, I guess it's OK with you, right?

Fracking is a short-term solution to a long-term problem. Kind of like Skydekker's excellent cancer chemotherapy analogy above.

Wendy P.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Isn’t fracking a way to get natural gas?  Isn’t natural gas a fossil fuel? Aren’t fossil fuels blamed for the imaginary problem of global warming?  Wasn’t the overblown threat of tiny earth tremors just an excuse to ban fracking by the environmentalists wackos?  Seems that that imaginary threat has also abated in the face of a genuine energy crisis.

The fact that people in Jackson, Mississippi are mainly using water from single use plastics doesn't mean that plastic bottles aren't bad for the environment. 

Your "reasoning" above is so incredibly simplistic.

[brenthutch 444]

58 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

That's a lot of simplification in a lot of questions.

Ask the oil companies who aren't fracking nearly as much why they aren't -- it's not profitable after a (rather short per well) period. That's why there are so many abandoned wells. As long as they're not in Happy Valley, I guess it's OK with you, right?

Fracking is a short-term solution to a long-term problem. Kind of like Skydekker's excellent cancer chemotherapy analogy above.

Wendy P.

Oil companies are fracking more not less

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-oil-producers-ramp-up-fracking-sign-stronger-output-gains-2022-01-12/

And I live in the Marcellus shale formation and we have dozens of wells here in Happy Valley.  
 

And to take Skydekker’s “excellent” analogy one step further… yes anti cancer drugs aren’t without side effects but they are better than dying of cancer.  Just like fracking is better than energy poverty and freezing to death.

[brenthutch 444]

10 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

The fact that people in Jackson, Mississippi are mainly using water from single use plastics doesn't mean that plastic bottles aren't bad for the environment. 

Your "reasoning" above is so incredibly simplistic.

Your “reasoning” is convoluted and torturous 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

4 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Just like fracking is better than energy poverty and freezing to death.

Right, which nobody is arguing. However that doesn't mean that other options should not be considered. Just like in Jackson, Miss people are still working to restore the potable water system, even though drinking from a plastic bottle is better than dying of dehydration.

[billvon 3,107]

12 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

yes anti cancer drugs aren’t without side effects but they are better than dying of cancer.  Just like fracking is better than energy poverty and freezing to death.

Exactly!  And getting an HPV vaccine is WAY better than getting cancer in the first place - just like renewable energy is WAY better than natural gas.  But as a poor alternative, chemo (and natural gas) are better than nothing.

[jakee 1,593]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Isn’t fracking a way to get natural gas?  Isn’t natural gas a fossil fuel? Aren’t fossil fuels blamed for the imaginary problem of global warming?  Wasn’t the overblown threat of tiny earth tremors just an excuse to ban fracking by the environmentalists wackos?  Seems that that imaginary threat has also abated in the face of a genuine energy crisis.

 

Quote

Wasn’t the overblown threat of tiny earth tremors just an excuse to ban fracking by the environmentalists wackos?

Fracking was banned by the same right wing Conservatives you just said were adults.

Edited September 8, 2022 by jakee

[brenthutch 444]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Exactly!  And getting an HPV vaccine is WAY better than getting cancer in the first place - just like renewable energy is WAY better than natural gas.  But as a poor alternative, chemo (and natural gas) are better than nothing.

Than why aren’t they using wind and solar if it was way better?

[brenthutch 444]

44 minutes ago, jakee said:

 

Fracking was banned by the same right wing Conservatives you just said were adults.

When did I say conservativeS?

I credited the current PM for the course correction no one else.

[billeisele 130]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

 just like renewable energy is WAY better than natural gas.  

true, except for that pesky thing called "cost" 

The basic fundamentals are being glossed over like they don't exist. For CA to make the leap to EVs like they want to will cost $???. Is it even achievable in the desired timeframe? Since CA loves illegal immigrants supposedly to keep their agriculture economy rolling, will they be paid enough to afford the EVs?

[gowlerk 2,272]

5 minutes ago, billeisele said:

true, except for that pesky thing called "cost" 

I'm pretty sure that renewable energy is cheaper than natural gas. And the spread is only going to increase.

[brenthutch 444]

6 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I'm pretty sure that renewable energy is cheaper than natural gas. And the spread is only going to increase.

Everyone keeps saying that however if it were true GB would be building more windmills and solar panels instead of reversing on fracking and doubling down on the North Sea oil and gas fields.

[olofscience 492]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Everyone keeps saying that however if it were true GB would be building more windmills and solar panels instead of reversing on fracking and doubling down on the North Sea oil and gas fields.

You assume price is the only issue because you can't fit more than one factor in your mind at a time.

If price was the only issue, only one model of car would ever be sold. Edited to remove wording

Edited September 8, 2022 by wmw999
Remove wording

[SkyDekker 1,465]

23 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Everyone keeps saying that however if it were true GB would be building more windmills and solar panels instead of reversing on fracking and doubling down on the North Sea oil and gas fields.

Why do you think this is a zero sum game? Again, the argument is not making sense.

Thankfully they had long ago started investment in renewable energy sources with wind now being their second largest source of electricity. Why do you seem to think countries can or should only have one source for electricity? So bizarre.

Would be like me arguing that since she also capped price it means that clearly fracking is not economical and shouldn't be done under any circumstance.

Edited September 8, 2022 by SkyDekker

[brenthutch 444]

Just now, olofscience said:

You assume price is the only issue because you can't fit more than one factor in your mind at a time.

If price was the only issue, only one model of car would ever be sold. But that's way beyond your capacity to understand.

I didn’t mention price so you must have confused me with Gowlerk (who did).  I would think that reliability would also be a consideration.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Just now, brenthutch said:

 I would think that reliability would also be a consideration.

You would? Wind is the second largest source of electricity in the UK. Working better than Texas electrical grid, or Jackson, Mississippi's water system.